There is absolutely no reason that this building needs to be demolished. There are huge lots of undeveloped and empty lots surrounding SLU hospital. This is completely unnecessary and inexcusable. Personally I think it's sociopathic and disturbingly self-destructive. Didn't they just doze a few blocks of single family homes for their track? And isn't their a freshly dozed block of homes between Rutger and Hickory one block west of Grand? Do they think someone's out to get them? Or that they can thrive on an island by themselves without an intergrated community to support them? It takes great effort for a University to be such a destructive citizen. Healthcare and Education are two of the only industries that are growing right now, and yet SLU finds a way for them both to be destructive rather than progressive forces. Sad really.
Pretty tough to be positive when there track record has been pretty consistent. Purchase property when and only if opportunity arises, clear site of maintenance cost items and liabilities in the case and as every other case the best course of action is to demo any structures if you have no desire to make use of (or I believe that the would be course of action that any good Real Estate attorney will tell a land/property owner), and finally hold, and hold, and hold.thedude wrote:Let's not be so negative right away. They are at least trying to preserve some parts of it. I guess we rather let the building just stay as it is as the alternative? Not trying to offend any one who likes this building but I consider this an eye sore in its current condition. I is a shame that they don't have renderings. But wouldn't the board reject them if they had no renderings to prove how they are trying to incorporate some of the existing features?
It wouldn't be so bad if they could at least articulate a developement plan or at least a long term vision. Something Barnes Jewisha and Wash U have consistently done with their extensive facitlities/campuses. Or even be honest if it is about having a buffer zone on outlying properties surrounding the campus. But have a tough time believing they haven't spent money and time on long term development plan aournd their south medical/research campus. Yet, unless I'm missing something, it doesn't appear anywhere.
I'm generally for preservation but I don't deny that finding practical uses for old buildings is a challenge. If the new building has the proper setback (unlikely), underground parking or parking behind the building (more unlikely) and generates good paying jobs then I think that could be a valid reason for demolition.
Are there any architectural details to these buildings that are unique to the city?
Are there any architectural details to these buildings that are unique to the city?
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FYI, here's the link to the WU Medical Center plan. You get years of prior notice regarding demo, expansion plans. http://www.scribd.com/doc/52112208/WUMC ... n-Nov-2007
That's only one small view of preservation. Should we have only one of each architectural detail in the city? Perhaps one of the Victorian homes along Lafayette Square should be protected, but the others... Just making a point that many (me, for sure) very preservation has more than protecting specific examples of "X". It's about sustainability, walkability and preserving a sense of place. IF SLU were to offer a great new building that met those criteria, well, the loss of this building would largely be mitigated. But SLU has a bad track record. I find the Doisy building very interesting, but it's awful in the city and gets worse and worse the closer you get to it.metzgda wrote:Are there any architectural details to these buildings that are unique to the city?
Alex Ihnen wrote:FYI, here's the link to the WU Medical Center plan. You get years of prior notice regarding demo, expansion plans. http://www.scribd.com/doc/52112208/WUMC ... n-Nov-2007
Thanks Alex, my last paragraph probably wasn't clear but have a hard time believing that SLU doesn't have something similiar and not doing themselves any favors over the long run in making it accessable.
Wow...some strong feelings!
I'm all for saving the Pevely complex...seriously...and let's hope that SLU can come up with something to preserve the character of those buildings for all of us...
There is clearly something to the notion that Catholic institutions do exist on island or separate from the world...see monasteries and cathedrals...buildings and institutions that don't look like or act like many secular and business organizations...but to call the Church destructive and sociopathic misses the larger mission that Catholic charities, schools and other related organizations do FOR the community...It's a pretty safe bet that the Church is a significant net gain for the community...And a very strong argument can be made that it is the community that left SLU, not the other way around...midtown isn't adjacent to Forest Park and just off of U City and Clayton...
Biondi seems to often catch heat from within the Church for taking positions t0o liberal for sensible Catholic tastes...It seems now he is often losing with secular minds too...
But YES, SLU should be encouraged to figure out better ways of maintaining its Catholic identity while also creating more livable and walkable surrounding community...And name calling is not the way forward with this effort.
I'm all for saving the Pevely complex...seriously...and let's hope that SLU can come up with something to preserve the character of those buildings for all of us...
There is clearly something to the notion that Catholic institutions do exist on island or separate from the world...see monasteries and cathedrals...buildings and institutions that don't look like or act like many secular and business organizations...but to call the Church destructive and sociopathic misses the larger mission that Catholic charities, schools and other related organizations do FOR the community...It's a pretty safe bet that the Church is a significant net gain for the community...And a very strong argument can be made that it is the community that left SLU, not the other way around...midtown isn't adjacent to Forest Park and just off of U City and Clayton...
Biondi seems to often catch heat from within the Church for taking positions t0o liberal for sensible Catholic tastes...It seems now he is often losing with secular minds too...
But YES, SLU should be encouraged to figure out better ways of maintaining its Catholic identity while also creating more livable and walkable surrounding community...And name calling is not the way forward with this effort.
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1) Nobody called the Church destructive and/or sociopathic. Read again.RobbyD wrote:...but to call the Church destructive and sociopathic misses the larger mission that Catholic charities, schools and other related organizations do FOR the community...
Biondi seems to often catch heat from within the Church for taking positions t0o liberal for sensible Catholic tastes...It seems now he is often losing with secular minds too...
2) Good for Biondi for supposedly taking "liberal" positions on things which have absolutely nothing to do with his penchant for bulldozing and land-banking Midtown.
3) I'm annoyed that some people are saying "Oh, wait. Look! They plan on building something there! And they might think about preserving a brick or two! It's not so bad after all!" Yes, it is, because:
A) As Alex mentioned, it's a ploy to get preservationists off their back and what they really want to do is level the entire site.
B) They own vacant lots all over Midtown on which they can build their ugly crap, including a bunch of wasted space directly across the street next to Doisy, a bunch of vacant lots north of the Chouteau/Grand intersection, and a sea of parking both east and west of Grand behind Doisy and Cardinal Glennon. Take a look at satellite view and try not to f*cking puke.
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This is absolutely horrible. SLU is undeniably an asset for the city and the midtown area as a whole, but their pathetic use of land in the city must be taken to the woodshed.
BIONDI is systematically destroying the urban fabric of the midtown area. As stated, they have PLOTS UPON PLOTS UPON PLOTS of land that is sitting unused as grass.
This has nothing to do with the church. It has everything to do with one SPECIFIC institution (SLU) that is abusing (no pun intended) their tax abated status to establish massive land holdings for which they have no credible plan and a horrific track record of execution.
Is anyone a student there? PLEASE, do whatever you need to do to get a meeting with Biondi and let him know this is a waste of school funds and is contribution to a negative experience in the area as a whole.
Everyone loving that piece of sh*t "sculpture park" at Lindell and Grand?
The biggest issue is that once they own a piece of land, it is virtually impossible for anyone else (even with GREAT uses for their sites) to purchase the land back and it sits into perpetuity, destroying the experience of midtown.
CUT IT OUT BIONDI!
BIONDI is systematically destroying the urban fabric of the midtown area. As stated, they have PLOTS UPON PLOTS UPON PLOTS of land that is sitting unused as grass.
This has nothing to do with the church. It has everything to do with one SPECIFIC institution (SLU) that is abusing (no pun intended) their tax abated status to establish massive land holdings for which they have no credible plan and a horrific track record of execution.
Is anyone a student there? PLEASE, do whatever you need to do to get a meeting with Biondi and let him know this is a waste of school funds and is contribution to a negative experience in the area as a whole.
Everyone loving that piece of sh*t "sculpture park" at Lindell and Grand?
The biggest issue is that once they own a piece of land, it is virtually impossible for anyone else (even with GREAT uses for their sites) to purchase the land back and it sits into perpetuity, destroying the experience of midtown.
CUT IT OUT BIONDI!
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I'd love to know what the dynamic is b/w Schoemel/GC and Biondi/SLU.
^It's not a good one.
I think all we have to do is look across Grand at that ridiculous high rise in the middle of a field to get an idea of what SLU may do.
I guess I don't understand. SLU has garnered many accolades for Hotel Ignacio, which was named one of STL's "Most Enhanced Buildings" by Landmark's Assoc....so why can't SLU realize there is value in restoring the buildings they buy rather than tearing them down.
These building look like huge, empty canvases, I just don't buy they're not feasible for what they want to do, but I'm not an architect.
SLU has the pockets to make this work without destroying all of the buildings.
I think all we have to do is look across Grand at that ridiculous high rise in the middle of a field to get an idea of what SLU may do.
I guess I don't understand. SLU has garnered many accolades for Hotel Ignacio, which was named one of STL's "Most Enhanced Buildings" by Landmark's Assoc....so why can't SLU realize there is value in restoring the buildings they buy rather than tearing them down.
These building look like huge, empty canvases, I just don't buy they're not feasible for what they want to do, but I'm not an architect.
SLU has the pockets to make this work without destroying all of the buildings.
I wouldn't be surprised if SLU envisions the entire Chouteau-Compton-Park-Spring rectangle as a contiguous, master-planned medical campus with no non-SLU entities.
In other news, how were they able to bulldoze an entire street of homes without us hearing about it? That seems like almost the bigger loss compared to an abandoned Dairy.
I understand the need for a new physician's building, but the current offices at 3660 Vista are surrounded by a wasteland of surface lots. Building a new tower and parking garage there would also put the facility much closer to the hospital and other medical facilities compared to the current plan that separates the building from the rest of the hospital complex (both by distance and by an intervening Philips 66, one structure that I'd love for SLU to replace).
Probably true, but they shouldn't. The SLU campus is already so sprawling it makes it feel less impressive than it should. It's long but not deep, and it's pockmarked by gaps and dead space. It doesn't make the campus feel as healthy and thriving as (I think) it actually is.drdrew wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if SLU envisions the entire Chouteau-Compton-Park-Spring rectangle as a contiguous, master-planned medical campus with no non-SLU entities.
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google maps makes me angry. SLU has so much empty space to work with its unconscionable that it is seeking to demolish a fantastic corner building. SLU Medical really needs to share its long-term land use plan for growth.
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Here's an excerpt from an article from Shaw Neighborhood Housing Corp:
Regarding the buildings with the trucking bays on the northwest corner of Chouteau/Grand, are these being prepped for demo? Work crew have been onsite removing windows from one of the buildings.
here's the link http://shawhousing.wordpress.com/2011/1 ... -progress/Last, news came last week, SLU has purchased the Pevely Building at Chouteau and Grand. They have applied for demo permits but plan to keep the smoke stack and building facade (facing grand). They intend to build a new state of the art doctor’s building. They also own the lot across the street on the Northwest corner of Grand and Chouteau.
Regarding the buildings with the trucking bays on the northwest corner of Chouteau/Grand, are these being prepped for demo? Work crew have been onsite removing windows from one of the buildings.
It was covered here: http://vanishingstl.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... earby.htmldrdrew wrote:In other news, how were they able to bulldoze an entire street of homes without us hearing about it? That seems like almost the bigger loss compared to an abandoned Dairy.
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^ The answer to the question is that no one's paying attention. SLU (and other entities) start by buying a couple single-family homes, then a whole block. They may hold these for a year, maybe longer. Ownership is public information, but it doesn't pop up on its own. People have to be looking for it. By the time SLU, or whoever, own half a block there's virtually zero chance of stopping redevelopment. This block of homes was isolated - hidden off main streets so people didn't often see it. Frankly, again, this is what happens when people aren't paying attention.
When I was training at the hospital, I remember coming out of the side entrance and seeing this row of modest but cohesive houses and thinking how cool it would be to able to rent there and walk to work everyday
They could have been rehabbed into a unique row of residences, or even offices.
But that would require a lot more will and vision,
They could have been rehabbed into a unique row of residences, or even offices.
But that would require a lot more will and vision,
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Do you have a list of individuals we can contact in regards to this situation? Contact info?
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From the nextSTL blog story:
To let your thoughts be known, contact members of the Preservation Board: http://stlouis-mo.gov/government/depart ... /index.cfm,
17th Ward Alderman Joe Roddy: http://stlouis-mo.gov/government/depart ... -roddy.cfm and
Saint Louis University President Lawrence Biondi (biondi@slu.edu).
Lighting up Mayor Slay's Twitter feed never hurts either: http://twitter.com/#!/mayorslay
To let your thoughts be known, contact members of the Preservation Board: http://stlouis-mo.gov/government/depart ... /index.cfm,
17th Ward Alderman Joe Roddy: http://stlouis-mo.gov/government/depart ... -roddy.cfm and
Saint Louis University President Lawrence Biondi (biondi@slu.edu).
Lighting up Mayor Slay's Twitter feed never hurts either: http://twitter.com/#!/mayorslay
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Obviously we know what the benefits are to the city if this building is saved but what are some of the benefits to SLU when it comes to saving this building?
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If SLU had a development plan that they presented showing exactly what they plan on doing with the site, as well as the land across the street (NW corner); I might understand why they want to demolish Pevely. The only thing that upsets me is the frantic desire to demolish without having a long term plan in place...or a public one at least.
I'm all for making a major SLU campus and growing it to strengthen Midtown, I just want to see what they have planned!
I'm all for making a major SLU campus and growing it to strengthen Midtown, I just want to see what they have planned!