Jeff707 wrote:I think the Laclede/Euclid intersection could use a good bar.
I love the Majestic Cafe. A huge menu, cheap prices, and when the restaurant closes, you just move over to the bar side. And this is one of the best people-watching locations in St. Louis.
Bastiat wrote:Personally, I'd rather see people flock to the area to shop at upscale stores than stores like Heffalumps. And that is not to say I prefer the former over the latter. I like this trend because it is progress. More stores like Heffalumps, etc. will open on the Manchester strip, Cherokee St., and South Grand. If those areas become too pricey, people will start to open stores on 14th street in ONSL, etc. It is the flow of wealth into the city.
I have mixed feelings about this "progress." Personally, I don't want to walk down Euclid and see only Pottery Barn, Club Monaco, Talbott's, Brooks Brothers, Williams-Sonoma, and so forth. If I want to go to national chain stores for rich people, I'll go to Frontenac.
Oh the other hand, I can't disagree with your conclusions. It demonstrates confidence in the neighborhood, and it means that Heffalumps, REC Club and the like move to other neighborhoods, helping reinvigorate them. Overall, this is an indicator that more money and people are moving back into the city--and that's good.
Tysalpha wrote:I have mixed feelings about this "progress." Personally, I don't want to walk down Euclid and see only Pottery Barn, Club Monaco, Talbott's, Brooks Brothers, Williams-Sonoma, and so forth.
Why not? I generally prefer the funky and the accessible, but if there is any one neighborhood or street in St. Louis that I'd like to see look like this, it's the CWE/Euclid. Let's face it, the CWE was the nabe of the tastefully well-heeled, and I'd like to see it that way again. Hell, Saks used to be on Maryland Plaza until Frontenac lured it away. This town could really use a genuinely upscale urban shopping area, and the CWE should be it.
I don't want the entire city--or the entire central corridor, for that matter--to be this way, but to the Central West End, I propose a champagne toast!
Qdoba's brownies are the best in the universe. It's true...it's science.
However, I prefer Moe's for the big mexi burrito thing. They use spanish rice and give you chips with your meal, where Qdoba and Chipotle use white rice and Qdoba charges you for chips.
Tysalpha wrote:I have mixed feelings about this "progress." Personally, I don't want to walk down Euclid and see only Pottery Barn, Club Monaco, Talbott's, Brooks Brothers, Williams-Sonoma, and so forth.
Why not? I generally prefer the funky and the accessible, but if there is any one neighborhood or street in St. Louis that I'd like to see look like this, it's the CWE/Euclid. Let's face it, the CWE was the nabe of the tastefully well-healed, and I'd like to see it that way again. Hell, Saks used to be on Maryland Plaza until Frontenac lured it away. This town could really use a genuinely upscale urban shopping area, and the CWE should be it.
Steve, my complaint isn't so much about the CWE being for the "tastefully well-heeled," as the neighborhood historically was/is the most sophisticated in St. Louis. In fact, I like most of the stores I mentioned, at least somewhat.
Rather, I guess my complaint is about the loss of a unique St. Louis identity. Anymore, success seems to bring uniformity, even at highline prices.
I can see why one might prefer the mom & pop store to the chain equivalent. One will certainly have more flavor over the other. But this trend is inevitable and not just for St. Louis. As a neighborhood attracts more people with more disposable cash, those chain stores follow looking to sell their product. Their economies of scale allow them to pay more in rent since their product costs are lower (e.g. Starbucks). That's probably why the Grind left Maryland Plaza and that's why Starbucks entered. That said, stores like the Grind can reopen, just not on the central drag. Considering how many independent stores are on Euclid and how many storefronts are still empty, I don't think anyone is bringing the Mall to a location near you anytime soon. But if it does happen, people who own on Euclid should be ecstatic. Those stores will bring higher rents and driver property prices up. Go Banana Republic! Hello Brooks Brothers. Come to my neighborhood.
I wanted to add, that I'm a big fan of the Grind and will be following it to it's new location on Lindell. My point is that the independent store can just move off main street and pay less rent. And assuming the chain stores attract more foot traffic, that might actually help the smaller stores.
The upside of higher end businesses displacing current ones is that it expands the CWE into the older West End borders and jump starts more rehab and fixer-ups of northern neighborhoods or the movement moved to South Grand. Whichever, cities are ever changing, but the success spreads and makes the City increasingly more attractive and able to rebuild from growing reinvestment.
In addition, making the City better makes the rest of the region more attractive > think of how popular urban Denver is and remember how much there suburbs have expanded as a result or densified.
I would hate for the CWE to end up like Country Club Plaza in KC. Sure, it's a beautiful neighborhood, busy, and prosperous, but it just feels so elitist. I didn't feel welcome there, and I certainly didn't feel like hanging out and having a few beers. And actually shopping for anything was out of the question. The CWE needs to hang on to some of it's historical "grittiness".
Well, I don't know what that place is like but I'm guessing it's pretty snobby and exclusive. But it's hard to see CWE losing it's flavor cosidering how the young people in the neighborhood seem to own the streets. And I don't think stores like Design Within Reach ($$$) are going to change that. But let me say this:
If fancy shops, restaurants, etc. come to Euclid, that might attract more fancy people (and by fancy people, I just mean people with $$$, hopefully cool people with money), who can afford fancy apartments ($$$), who in turn can sustain more shopping, restaurants etc. They will also have more clout (again because of $$$) to maybe make something happen about all those empty lots--and there might even be more of an incentive now to turn those empty lots into something to make $$$ off the fancy people. I hate to make it all seem about $$$, but this is America, land of capitalism. I think should this scenario happen, a lot of people will come out ahead b/c the commercial area will get bigger, there will be more to do, more places to go, and anybody who already owns in the neighborhood will see their property values go up--I think the ones in jeopardy will be those who rent in the area, b/c if prices go up, real estate taxes will go up, and landlords will try to pass those costs on to their tenants. This is all probably wishful thinking though (I will soon own in the neighborhood) because I think we are a ways away from replacing all the stores on Euclid with Madison Avenue boutiques a la Vera Wang and Prada, but let me tell if we ever get there, I will happilly cash out and retire to some golf course in Florida.
Framer wrote:The CWE needs to hang on to some of it's historical "grittiness".
Feels like a lost cause to me. Let's just "allow" the CWE to become our gold coast and enjoy the plethora of more authentic neighborhoods the City has to offer.
phobia wrote:Feels like a lost cause to me. Let's just "allow" the CWE to become our gold coast and enjoy the plethora of more authentic neighborhoods the City has to offer.
I hate get OT, but I think the CWE is by far the most "authentic" neighborhood in the city. Just b/c some of the new stores are $$$ doesn't mean they're not original. I think it's great to have the diversity - e.g., someone can eat a $100+ meal right next to someone having a $5 meal. Whether I feel like a slice of pizza or sushi, it's nice to not have to leave the neighborhood. Housing is the same in the CWE - you can find all types (lofts, skyrises, 2-4 flats, etc.) in most price ranges - rentals from $600 - $2,500+, and real estate from < $100K - $1.7million.
^ Coming from NYC I completely agree. Even in the most expensive neighborhoods in Manhattan, you can still find a pizza nearby, within 1 or 2 blocks, they just aren't on the avenue b/c the rent is too high. So worst case scenario, even if Euclid does turn into a main promenade where rents skyrocket forcing smaller bars to move out, they won't have to go very far, less than a block probably. And the increased traffic will be good for everybody, except those NIMBY's who will no doubt complain about the traffic. At the end of the day, I'm excited about the possibilities. I look forward to living there.
Well, then you should also be a big fan of Chipotle too. The stores are very similar in appearance and they serve an almost identical product. One of these two must have stolen the concept from the other.
Panera completely stole their store concept from St. Louis Bread Company! j/k!
St.Louis UAB alumni wrote:Here are some updated pictures. A lot of the features are starting to take shape.
Wow. The glass going in certainly helps! It's lost that "beige-tinted concrete box" lookin it had going for a while. The balconies look awesome. I'd love to have one that faced south or east. Hmm.. or even west.
Great pics. The building is really looking great. I'd like to see some more shots of the base. I haven't had time to swing through the CWE lately. Is the base coming along any better? I remember it being a little ugly last time I drove by it.
I wonder if the bldg will look much different once it is completed and people start moving in. Will it look better or worse once people start decorating their patios, etc. I've never paid much attention to that.
Tax Guru wrote:I wonder if the bldg will look much different once it is completed and people start moving in. Will it look better or worse once people start decorating their patios, etc. I've never paid much attention to that.
Hmmm... I think the decorated decks will bring life to the building...U live in NY right? How do the residential towers in your neck of the woods look once occupied?
In my opinion buildings tend to start looking not so super when inidividual tenants start placing bright colored objects on their balconies. I realize saying no to individual tastes can be an afront to personal liberties but in NY at least it's pretty common for more upscale buildings to have strict guidelines re what you can and can't do on your balcony. And the Park East told us that we couldn't put lights on the balcony--I shouldn't have mentioned my disco ball idea.
I was recently going through the minutes of a condo for a real estate closing here in NY and it was so funny to me (probably not them) how many times the board rejected tenants requests to put things on their balconies, like DirectTV satelittle dishes or a shed. I can see how that would piss people off and make them feel like they weren't being allowed to use their space, but I suppose it's to protect the building and the greater good. This also explains why some people prefer their own home to apartment buildings with rules and limitations.
As for me, I'll probably be totally hypocritical when it comes to condo rules. I'll be for them when somebody else wants something and totally against them when I want to do something and they won't let me. Like a flip-flopper.
Has anyone had any problems in their own buildings with special requests post construction? Has anyone fought the board and won? Are condo associations political nightmares or friendly associations? Should we start a new thread? Should I get back to work? Tax preparation is so much fun.
I had dinner and drinks outside the Majestic last night, and I gotta say, the 6-story concrete base really is oppressive, and very disappointing (the ornamental lighting is pretty cool, though). But I do think things will look better after the retail moves in, especially if they have a restaurant with outdoor seating.
BTW, the sales office next door has a lighted model of the Park East Lofts visible through the window. It's gonna be much bigger than it looks in the facade-only renderings, stretching west along Buckingham.
