What does any of this(Northwest Plaza) have to do with KC? Let's leave KC out of STL's problems.stlmizzoutiger wrote:I went to Bannister Mall a couple years ago to do some shopping with my sister who was in Med School @ UMKC. There wasn't anything to buy because 75% of the stores were closed (This was right before The Jones Store closed). It was a Saturday afternoon but the mall had the empty feeling of Northwest Plaza about 10 minutes after all the stores closed for the evening. It was really depressing and we left after not even really buying anything. Kansas City doesn't have any really good malls comparable to The Galleria or West County Center. The Country Club Plaza is relatively nice but it's more of a "scaled down outdoor Plaza Frontenac with a little Central West End feel to it." Last time I was at the Country Club Plaza Sak's Fifth Avenue closed its doors. I haven't been back to see what they were able to replace it with. Crown Center is a nice mall but it's more of a tourist attraction than a mall locals would go to for typical mall shopping (It's kind of like KC's version of STL Union Station). KC isn't a bad town but there are a lot of places that could use some help with beautification and what not. Although some in St. Louis City accuse the city government of spending money too much in some areas and not enough in the other, KC seems to do that 10 times more. It seems to spend so much money on "The Plaza" area that there are plenty of areas in the city that make North St. Louis look like it has a good tax base. What cracks me up about KC is they'll build a parkway and put a ton of trees and plants around it when on the other side of the trees are dilapidated neighborhoodsThis can really be seen on Van Brunt if taken to "The Plaza." Instead of improving impoverished neighborhoods KC just hides them. I guess you can say KC and STL are about as different as 2 cities can be that are only about 4 hours apart.
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Urban Elitist wrote:What does any of this(Northwest Plaza) have to do with KC? Let's leave KC out of STL's problems.stlmizzoutiger wrote:I went to Bannister Mall a couple years ago to do some shopping with my sister who was in Med School @ UMKC. There wasn't anything to buy because 75% of the stores were closed (This was right before The Jones Store closed). It was a Saturday afternoon but the mall had the empty feeling of Northwest Plaza about 10 minutes after all the stores closed for the evening. It was really depressing and we left after not even really buying anything. Kansas City doesn't have any really good malls comparable to The Galleria or West County Center. The Country Club Plaza is relatively nice but it's more of a "scaled down outdoor Plaza Frontenac with a little Central West End feel to it." Last time I was at the Country Club Plaza Sak's Fifth Avenue closed its doors. I haven't been back to see what they were able to replace it with. Crown Center is a nice mall but it's more of a tourist attraction than a mall locals would go to for typical mall shopping (It's kind of like KC's version of STL Union Station). KC isn't a bad town but there are a lot of places that could use some help with beautification and what not. Although some in St. Louis City accuse the city government of spending money too much in some areas and not enough in the other, KC seems to do that 10 times more. It seems to spend so much money on "The Plaza" area that there are plenty of areas in the city that make North St. Louis look like it has a good tax base. What cracks me up about KC is they'll build a parkway and put a ton of trees and plants around it when on the other side of the trees are dilapidated neighborhoods
LOL, sorry Bannister came up so I thought I'd say how bad KCs mall situations are before people start bashing Northwest Plaza which would be one of the top 3 malls in KC
I love the idea of a TOD on the site, expanding Metrolink west. Idealy any future expansion to St. Charles could even go through the site. However, getting to the site might be pretty difficult.
ThreeOneFour wrote:I'd like to see community leaders and developers talking about some alternatives like this, because I simply don't think that malls like Northwest Plaza, Jamestown Mall, Crestwood Plaza, even St. Louis Mills, are sustainable in their current configuration. And the communities in which they are located deserve better IMHO.
I totally agree and also agree with the sentiment that the now-growing North County area is underserved in terms of retail options. I think a small "regional" Mall would work well, i.e., a place to go when your daughter remembers at 7:30pm she needs a new dress to wear for picture day *tomorrow*. Right now the local options are basically limited to Target, Jamestown and The Mills, or "run down to the Galleria." Amibitions higher than a small regional Mall (or maybe a "lifestyle center"?) would, IMO, be misguided.
I've posted in the past about Jamestown - the chicken/egg quandry of no-good-stores versus no-shoppers, but in the end I think it's just plagued by a bad location for a Mall. As for Northwest, I fear that's a lost cause in terms of a Mall location. Like it or not, there's a stigma there that's going to be nearly impossible to overcome IMHO. St Louisans have LONG memories. That dress my kid needs at 7:30pm? Hold the thrown tomatoes, but we just *aren't* going to NWP to get it. Not that we'd find it there anyway, given the current mix of stores.
I think that NWP (and Jamestown, now that I've thrown it into the conversation) actually suffered more than people expected when the Galleria was redeveloped (what was it, 15-20 years ago?!) It's kind of a blessing and a curse thing -- NoCo has fairly easy highway access (I-270 and I-170 - even more so now that that intersection is improved) so during non-rush-hour traffic it's a breeze to zip down to the Galleria, really. For your average Florissant resident, I'll bet it's just as convenient, albeit further in terms of miles, to take 270 to 170 to the Galleria as it is to trudge down Lindbergh to NWP, or wind around Lindbergh or Old Jamestown Rd to get to Jamestown.
A couple of things:
Please define "TOD" for me.
What is going on inside the NWP tower, if anything? What percentage capacity?
Does The Pasta House still have a location at NWP?
It seems to me there are tens of thousands of people around the NWP area that would make it the best retail mall shopping option.
Last time I was there, maybe 2 years ago, it seemed to be doing quite well in terms of people traffic. Dillards and Famous and all parts between seemed to be teeming with shoppers.
Is that no longer the case?
Also, my perception of Jamestown Mall was that it began it's decline before NWP. I ran into friends from H.S. ,maybe 8 years ago, that live in the Jamestown Mall area of North County. It freaked me out becuase I never EVER saw those people at NWP back in the 80's. They ALL hung out at Jamestown and looked down, somewhat, on NWP.
But, there they were. And indicated Jamestown was going downhill, so now they come to NWP much more regularly.
Please define "TOD" for me.
What is going on inside the NWP tower, if anything? What percentage capacity?
Does The Pasta House still have a location at NWP?
It seems to me there are tens of thousands of people around the NWP area that would make it the best retail mall shopping option.
Last time I was there, maybe 2 years ago, it seemed to be doing quite well in terms of people traffic. Dillards and Famous and all parts between seemed to be teeming with shoppers.
Is that no longer the case?
Also, my perception of Jamestown Mall was that it began it's decline before NWP. I ran into friends from H.S. ,maybe 8 years ago, that live in the Jamestown Mall area of North County. It freaked me out becuase I never EVER saw those people at NWP back in the 80's. They ALL hung out at Jamestown and looked down, somewhat, on NWP.
But, there they were. And indicated Jamestown was going downhill, so now they come to NWP much more regularly.
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Unless you were in the market for a large and gaudy gold chain, then I can't even imagine what you were shopping there for two years ago, let alone now.StL_Dan wrote:Last time I was there, maybe 2 years ago, it seemed to be doing quite well in terms of people traffic. Dillards and Famous and all parts between seemed to be teeming with shoppers.
Urban Elitist wrote:Unless you were in the market for a large and gaudy gold chain, then I can't even imagine what you were shopping there for two years ago, let alone now.StL_Dan wrote:Last time I was there, maybe 2 years ago, it seemed to be doing quite well in terms of people traffic. Dillards and Famous and all parts between seemed to be teeming with shoppers.
Or a blingy cell phone accessory.
Again, the people are there in the surrounding areas. But for whatever reason the Mall Stores don't seem (IMvHO) seem to cater to the needs of the average nearby resident. It's been a while, but my most recent visits to NWP have to been visit either of the anchors (Famous or Dillards), but skip the cr*p in between.
Urban Elitist wrote:Unless you were in the market for a large and gaudy gold chain, then I can't even imagine what you were shopping there for two years ago, let alone now.StL_Dan wrote:Last time I was there, maybe 2 years ago, it seemed to be doing quite well in terms of people traffic. Dillards and Famous and all parts between seemed to be teeming with shoppers.
I noticed that type of stuff being sold, but, not exclusively.
The kiosks were pretty gaudy, however, the individual shops (for the most part) and anchors were still solid.
My timing might be off a little, but, I was there within the last 3 years....more than once.
However, the typical soccer moms from Chesterfield always are the ones who seem to be fighting over the surface lot spaces because they can't seem to understand how to navigate parking garages.
That's what happens when a soccer mom drives an urban assult vehicle for a suburban shopping trip...
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GGP and Valor Security are managing the Mall now but I think they will have a much different experience then at the Galleria.
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The Curmudgeon wrote:GGP and Valor Security are managing the Mall now but I think they will have a much different experience then at the Galleria.
hey if they are hot...who cares
WOW
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument
Business > Story
Northwest Plaza plans $190 million makeover
By Norm Parish
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
03/16/2007
The financially struggling Northwest Plaza shopping mall would receive a $190 million makeover that includes two new major retailers under plans submitted to St. Ann officials this week.
The mall's owner, Somera Capital Management of Santa Barbara, Calif., submitted the proposal in response to the city's requests to redevelop the shopping mall. That process is required for Somera to get tax increment financing.
"We are very excited about this," said Mayor Carrie Cafazza about the proposal. "We are looking forward to working with Somera."
Under its plan, Somera plans to build two large retail facilities — 189,000 square feet and 103,000 square feet. General Growth Properties of Chicago, which manages the center, would not say what retailers might occupy the two buildings.
Northwest Plaza, which is at Lindbergh Boulevard and St. Charles Rock Road, also would have six new restaurants, as well as some mixed-use buildings on 11 acres of property.
But most of the mall's roof would be removed to help create a "lifestyle shopping center" atmosphere with outdoor access. Roads also would be added to support new outdoor storefronts.
Northwest Plaza is currently the region's largest indoor mall. It opened in 1965.
As part of the project, Macy's, Steve & Barry's, Sears and the plaza's office tower would be redeveloped. Absent from the project is Dillard's, a mall tenant.
Steve Kriegel, senior director of development of General Growth Properties, said Dillard's has indicated that it doesn't plan to renew its lease. Kriegel would not say when the lease expires. Dillard's officials could not be reached for comment.
City officials said they hope a renovated mall will help attract other businesses.
The estimated $190 million redevelopment is about $100 million more than city officials believed the mall owner would invest in Northwest Plaza.
Somera did not say how much of a tax break it wanted for the proposed project.
The mall's recent financial struggles have affected St. Ann's coffers. During the last five years, the city's general revenue sales tax plummeted 33 percent to about $2.1 million because of reduced business at Northwest Plaza.
The mall has suffered from competition from other shopping centers, as well as a decline in taste for indoor malls.
Northwest Plaza also was affected by "a sense of safety and security no longer present," tenants being located in the mall "without considering fundamental demographics," and a combination of "a food court and gaming arcade" not attracting traditional shoppers, the mall's renovation proposal said.
If the city and mall owner agree to the plans, the renovation project could start by the end of the year, said Matt Conley, assistant to the mayor.
Somera closed last June on its $45 million acquisition of Northwest Plaza from Westfield Group of Australia.
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Under its plan, Somera plans to build two large retail facilities — 189,000 square feet and 103,000 square feet.
FWIW - an average IKEA is 300,000 sq ft.
TOD?
Maybe first we could get some MetroBus shelters and/or benches on the Rock Road.
But yes, they could run a line down the Rock Road, possibly an extension of the North Side expansion line. Perhaps then through Earth City. Please demolish some office buildings while they are at it.
Maybe first we could get some MetroBus shelters and/or benches on the Rock Road.
But yes, they could run a line down the Rock Road, possibly an extension of the North Side expansion line. Perhaps then through Earth City. Please demolish some office buildings while they are at it.
Doug wrote:TOD?
Maybe first we could get some MetroBus shelters and/or benches on the Rock Road.
But yes, they could run a line down the Rock Road, possibly an extension of the North Side expansion line. Perhaps then through Earth City. Please demolish some office buildings while they are at it.
Let's not forget that Midland Blvd. used to be the street car line that ran from the Delmar Loop out to Creve Coeur Park. Just retake Midland and turn it north at Lindberg to NWP.
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I'm glad to hear that plans to redevelop Northwest Plaza are still on track.
It'll be interesting to see plans, and hopefully, a timetable. I'm also anxious to find out exactly who will occupy the two additional anchor spaces, since Dillard's is leaving Northwest and JC Penney left several years ago (the space currently occupied by Steve and Barry's).
I still have doubts about North County's ability to support multiple malls, especially since St. Louis Mills isn't setting the world on fire, and Jamestown Mall is on life support by most accounts. Howeer, I will say that it's interesting to see that Macy's and Sears have given the revamped mall a vote of confidence, when they could have instead focused on improving their Jamestown locations or relocated within or near St. Louis Mills.
With the right mix of tenants, preferably some unique offerings that would pull people in from the city and St. Charles County in addition to the immediate surrounding area, this could be a viable regional mall again.
It'll be interesting to see plans, and hopefully, a timetable. I'm also anxious to find out exactly who will occupy the two additional anchor spaces, since Dillard's is leaving Northwest and JC Penney left several years ago (the space currently occupied by Steve and Barry's).
I still have doubts about North County's ability to support multiple malls, especially since St. Louis Mills isn't setting the world on fire, and Jamestown Mall is on life support by most accounts. Howeer, I will say that it's interesting to see that Macy's and Sears have given the revamped mall a vote of confidence, when they could have instead focused on improving their Jamestown locations or relocated within or near St. Louis Mills.
With the right mix of tenants, preferably some unique offerings that would pull people in from the city and St. Charles County in addition to the immediate surrounding area, this could be a viable regional mall again.
^ Sears houses its region-wide offices in their building at NWP (thus the office-like windows on the third floor), and I think they own their building. So for them there is more of an investment in the longevity of the property. They could do a lot more to make the retail space good, but maybe they are forseeing a time when people will be tired of driving out to Mid Rivers or Chesterfield when NWP is closer.
Macy's I dunno. Last time I was in that mall it was pretty sorry. Its great to see how much they have been investing into downtown though -- and that it seems to be paying off in customer purchases. Long term I can't see Macy's investing resources into both Jamestown and NWP, though. Not sure if they own their NWP store, but I know they lease the Jamestown one. My bet is unless things change for the better, they will close there when their lease is up.
Macy's I dunno. Last time I was in that mall it was pretty sorry. Its great to see how much they have been investing into downtown though -- and that it seems to be paying off in customer purchases. Long term I can't see Macy's investing resources into both Jamestown and NWP, though. Not sure if they own their NWP store, but I know they lease the Jamestown one. My bet is unless things change for the better, they will close there when their lease is up.
ThreeOneFour wrote:I'm glad to hear that plans to redevelop Northwest Plaza are still on track.
It'll be interesting to see plans, and hopefully, a timetable. I'm also anxious to find out exactly who will occupy the two additional anchor spaces, since Dillard's is leaving Northwest and JC Penney left several years ago (the space currently occupied by Steve and Barry's).
I still have doubts about North County's ability to support multiple malls, especially since St. Louis Mills isn't setting the world on fire, and Jamestown Mall is on life support by most accounts. Howeer, I will say that it's interesting to see that Macy's and Sears have given the revamped mall a vote of confidence, when they could have instead focused on improving their Jamestown locations or relocated within or near St. Louis Mills.
With the right mix of tenants, preferably some unique offerings that would pull people in from the city and St. Charles County in addition to the immediate surrounding area, this could be a viable regional mall again.
I am glad to hear this is moving forward. Like Old Orchard Mall in Chicago (Skokie), I fondly remember the outdoor open-air NWP. Sounds like it is going to be a nice redo. This redo is going to cost more than Chesterfield's, which is turning out to be nice.
I think NoCo can support multiple malls. There are lots of new subdivisions under construction in NoCo, particularly by Jamestown. Also, Jamestown attracts Illinois residents. Jamestown just needs to be updated to better attract people. Same with Northwest Plaza.
St. Louis Mills, I think, is not necessarily a "NoCo" mall. It just happens to be in NoCo. Mills is a specialty mall. It is not a traditional mall. It was built to attract people from all over the region and from nearby states.
I would be extremely interested to see photos of NWP before it's conversion to a mall.
All I have are childhood memories.
All I have are childhood memories.
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I went to the Dillards clearance center last weekend for shopping and I also went around and took pics of the mall. The mall it seems keeps losing more national tenants since the last time I was there....its depressing. I remember this place before it was enclosed, after it was enclosed, and watched its downfall.
The I look on GGP's website, they have some sketches of the NWP redevelopment. Anymore sketches or info on this? When will this redevelopment start?
The I look on GGP's website, they have some sketches of the NWP redevelopment. Anymore sketches or info on this? When will this redevelopment start?
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StL_Dan wrote:I would be extremely interested to see photos of NWP before it's conversion to a mall.
All I have are childhood memories.
i dont think ive stepped foot in NWP since it was open air either.
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Northwest Plaza owner wants $86 million for shopping center rehab
By Buck Collier
Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:33 AM CDT
The owner of Northwest Plaza is asking for more than $80 million in public assistance to help make the landmark into a "completely renovated, vibrant, modern shopping center."
The panel considering the proposal from Somera Capital Management, the mall's owner, took the financial-aid request in stride, expecting to hear more details of the financing portion of the project at a meeting June 20.
Greg Smith, a Clayton attorney representing Somera and General Growth, a mall redevelopment-and-management firm, Thursday night told the St. Ann Tax Increment Financing Commission that the first phase of the project would need $68 million worth of public assistance. The second phase would need another $18 million, he said.
Tax increment financing (TIF) is a method by which new revenues generated by a project are dedicated for a specific amount of time to funding public improvements related to the project, such as street, water and sewer work. Without a TIF, that growth in revenue would go to the various agencies that provide services in the area containing the project, such as schools, city government, fire-protection districts and others.
How long the TIF proposed for Northwest Plaza would be in place is unclear; the first phase - the rehab of the existing mall area - is projected to take between three and four years. The next phase involves development on outlying parts of the Northwest Plaza site.
A more specific time frame for a TIF plan is expected to be outlined tonight when the commission meets to hear more detailed information on the financing portion of the project.
The commission, comprised of representatives of agencies that would be affected by the use of TIF and by representatives of the public at large, had few questions for Smith during Thursday's hour-long session.
Tonight's meeting is set for 6:30 in the St. Ann Board of Aldermen chamber in the city hall.
For a more complete account of Thursday's meeting of the St. Ann TIF Commission, see the June 20 edition of your Overland-St. Ann Journal.
Reach Buck Collier at bcollier@yourjournal.com.
By Buck Collier
Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:33 AM CDT
The owner of Northwest Plaza is asking for more than $80 million in public assistance to help make the landmark into a "completely renovated, vibrant, modern shopping center."
The panel considering the proposal from Somera Capital Management, the mall's owner, took the financial-aid request in stride, expecting to hear more details of the financing portion of the project at a meeting June 20.
Greg Smith, a Clayton attorney representing Somera and General Growth, a mall redevelopment-and-management firm, Thursday night told the St. Ann Tax Increment Financing Commission that the first phase of the project would need $68 million worth of public assistance. The second phase would need another $18 million, he said.
Tax increment financing (TIF) is a method by which new revenues generated by a project are dedicated for a specific amount of time to funding public improvements related to the project, such as street, water and sewer work. Without a TIF, that growth in revenue would go to the various agencies that provide services in the area containing the project, such as schools, city government, fire-protection districts and others.
How long the TIF proposed for Northwest Plaza would be in place is unclear; the first phase - the rehab of the existing mall area - is projected to take between three and four years. The next phase involves development on outlying parts of the Northwest Plaza site.
A more specific time frame for a TIF plan is expected to be outlined tonight when the commission meets to hear more detailed information on the financing portion of the project.
The commission, comprised of representatives of agencies that would be affected by the use of TIF and by representatives of the public at large, had few questions for Smith during Thursday's hour-long session.
Tonight's meeting is set for 6:30 in the St. Ann Board of Aldermen chamber in the city hall.
For a more complete account of Thursday's meeting of the St. Ann TIF Commission, see the June 20 edition of your Overland-St. Ann Journal.
Reach Buck Collier at bcollier@yourjournal.com.
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So what once was our largest outdoor mall before becoming our largest enclosed mall is set to become partly an open-air mall yet again. Ah, the cycles of life.
Nice renderings. I'm just glad that it is being upgraded and not shuttered.
Although I believe IKEA is more suitable for St. Louis Mills, I hope IKEA can be a part of the NWP plan as well.
Although I believe IKEA is more suitable for St. Louis Mills, I hope IKEA can be a part of the NWP plan as well.
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Although I believe IKEA is more suitable for St. Louis Mills, I hope IKEA can be a part of the NWP plan as well.
The one reason that Ikea wont open at Northwest Plaza is the fact that there is no interstate frontage. If Northwest Plaza had frontage along I-70, then Ikea would build there no doubt, especially with the airport being so close by. Most Ikea locations that I know of can be seen right from the highway.
From what I have heard, and it has been awhile (my family deals with commercial real estate) Ikea has 3 locations in mind for St. Louis and those are the St. Louis Mills area, along I-64 in St. Charles County and somewhere in the Metro East.