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PostApr 28, 2006#26

stlrock wrote:I really hope that Northwest can be turned around. Up to the late 90's it was still a good place to shop. The base is there to bring it back. People in the surrounding communities (Overland, St. Ann, Bridgeton) refuse to shop there, they'll drive right buy it on their way to the Mills. It needs to be redeveloped around its anchor stores, which the Mills doesn't have. If the mall can lure back those shoppers it will be in good shape.


The other thread on Jamestown Mall said something similar....I know many people in the NoCo/Florissant areas who drive to Mid Rivers Mall when Jamestown Mall is less than 10 miles away.



I'm not sure about the bit about the Mills.....that closure to due the fight a few weeks ago didn't do the Mills' reputation much good. :(

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PostApr 28, 2006#27

aimster wrote:Yeah, I've seen a few raised eyebrows when I mention that I grew up in Overland. I've never understood it... the neighborhood I grew up in was quiet and well maintained. We didn't have any trouble with the neighbors or with crime. But for some reason people have a really negative perception of Overland and the surrounding communities -- St. Ann and Bridgeton to name a few.



Back in the day, we cruised around NWP. It was really goofy, but it was a Friday/Saturday night tradition -- drive around the plaza, honk at people you know. If the cops chase you off, you meet at McD's on Lindbergh. I think that McD's is closed now.



Sorry for the nostalgia... I was on a little tangent there. I'd just really hate to see NWP decline any further than it already has.


aimster, I grew up in Bridgeton and rode/drove to church in Overland (Woodson & Lackland) twice on Sundays and once on Wednesdays for 18 years until I left home for college in 88.



I also know several folks that live in the Overland's various hoods as well as Charlack.



Overland is a very nice community imo. It has older and somewhat more contemporary SFRs. Maybe the fact that it borders some perceptively "rougher" communities to the south and east make it seem less than desirable to some. It's a foolish thing to think such, though.



The demise of NWP troubles me as well. Love that place. I don't understand the fear that is associated with it these days, either. I've visited several times in the last 5 years and have never sensed a reason to be fearful.



In fact, it's still in great shape and is a nice place to shop imo.

PostApr 28, 2006#28

stlrock wrote:I really hope that Northwest can be turned around. Up to the late 90's it was still a good place to shop. The base is there to bring it back. People in the surrounding communities (Overland, St. Ann, Bridgeton) refuse to shop there, they'll drive right buy it on their way to the Mills. It needs to be redeveloped around its anchor stores, which the Mills doesn't have. If the mall can lure back those shoppers it will be in good shape.



Unfortanately, I think Northwest's decline has stigmatized the community. Its already been said that it is not a bad area. I'm buying a house in St. Ann and my realtor was shocked with the area. She normally works in St. Charles and West County. She's been in St. Louis for about 5 years and was always told to stay away from this part of the county. Seeing the neighborhoods and what you can get for your money has completely changed her opinion.


Where in St Ann are you buying? What are average home prices in that area?

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PostApr 28, 2006#29

I was surprised the mall still has so many anchors since everyone is declaring its demise. Something can be done to get things in the right direction. Even if it is something no one has thought of before. I hope all parties with power and influence in these matters will do everything possible to keep this part of the metro area stable. After all, Metrolink goes through this part of the county, the houses are comfy & nice, and a lot of other positive things. It seems like a good place to focus with new ideas and smart development. I like looking at real estate ads in this part of the county. Lots of cute houses for a really good price. And one of the few residential areas that are near Metrolink. I am rambling and moving beyond the topic of NWP itself, but I see tremendous potential in the neighborhoods within easy shot to Metrolink. Also glad to hear it is attracting latinos, etc. There is a future for this area if leaders get focused.

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PostApr 28, 2006#30

I couldn't agree with you more, Expat.



When one stops and thinks about the anchors that exist at NWP, it's almost unfathomable to think the future won't be bright for that area commercially.



Residentially, my perspective is from the "Bridgeton/Maryland Hghts side" of the mall since that is where I grew up. From that perspective, it's interesting to note the recent build up of new homes behind Whitehall Manor and on Fee Fee south of Old St Chas RR. There are numerous other newer neighborhoods in Bridgeton/Md Hghts area as well. Some between Dorsett and RR west of Fee Fee and still more off of Natural Bridge across from City Hall.



Each time I go back, I'm amazed by how little the Lambert expansion has actually affected new home construction in these areas and home purchases of existing properties. And that is not to say property values are decreasing. A home in St James Estates next door to my parent's place sold for 170k about 6-8 months ago. Not exactly a sign of a declining housing market.



As I drive through the area, For Sale signs are not plentious either. Most folks are staying put instead of bailing out.



Sorry for taking this thread on a tangent.

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PostApr 28, 2006#31

StL_Dan wrote:


Where part of St Ann are you buying in? What are average home prices in that area?


On Baltimore off Ashby. It is a really nice neighborhood. The house is 1500 sqf with 4beds/1.5 baths for only $116,000, with lots of updates done this year. You can find great homes you don't have do any work to starting around $110,000 to however much you want to spend. If you don't mind doing some cosmetic work you can find solid places starting at around $75,000. If you pull up realtor.com and pop in 63114 and 63074 you can see what I'm talking about.



Really the area is a great value. I'm not far from anywhere. I'm twenty minutes from work and my wife is fifteen without having to get on a highway. I can get to the loop in about ten minutes and my favorite bar in the CWE in fifteen to twenty. Plus, we have easy Metrolink access at UMSL. Also, we the area is served by two good school districts: Pattonville and Ritenour.

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PostApr 28, 2006#32

stlrock wrote:
StL_Dan wrote:


Where part of St Ann are you buying in? What are average home prices in that area?


On Baltimore off Ashby. It is a really nice neighborhood. The house is 1500 sqf with 4beds/1.5 baths for only $116,000, with lots of updates done this year. You can find great homes you don't have do any work to starting around $110,000 to however much you want to spend. If you want to put in some cosmetic work into place you can find solid places starting at around $75,000. If you pull up realtor.com and pop in 63114 and 63074 you can see what I'm talking about.



Really the area is a great value. I'm not far from anywhere. I'm twenty minutes from work and my wife is fifteen without having to get on a highway. I can get to the loop in about ten minutes and my favorite bar in the CWE in fifteen to twenty. Plus, we have easy Metrolink access at UMSL. Also, we the area is served by two good school districts: Pattonville and Ritenour.


I'm jealous....seriously.



But, my wife vetoes any discussion of moving back home.



Is your home in the Ritenour or P'ville district? Looks like you're probably in the Ritenour Dist.

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PostApr 28, 2006#33

Due to the airport expansion land values in Bridgeton/Maryland Heights have risen not depreciated. Remember supply/demand and this is a great location with Lambert Intl., I-70, Lindbergh, I-270, and I-370 (service hwy. to Mills and now New Town).



There is density for those post-WW2 cookie cutter 'burbs and 1920s streetcar 'burbs (Midland streetcar route to Creve Coeur Park) east of Lindbergh including St. Ann, St. John, Edmudson, Breckenridge, Woodson Terrace, Charlack, Vanita Terrace, Vanita Park, Overland, and more.

There is reinvestment along the Rock Road communities. I wish we could combine many of these municipalities in order to create more teeth for this side of the county and better attract more redevelopment and investment.

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PostApr 28, 2006#34

StL_Dan wrote:


Is your home in the Ritenour or P'ville district? Looks like you're probably in the Ritenour Dist.


We're right on the Ritenour side of the line. Pattonville is the next block over.



I completely agree that muni's in the area need to be consolidated. Several of them are only a couple blocks long and don't provide any real services to their citizens. Actually that's my opinion on most of the county.

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PostMay 12, 2006#35

MALL SHUFFLE: The Westfield Group has closed the sale of Northwest Plaza to Somera Capital Management, a California investment group, for $47 million. However, the proposed sale of Crestwood Plaza to Somera fell apart at the last minute amid several concerns, including the condition of the mall's underground parking deck.



"That the garage needs some repairs is not a surprise to Westfield," says Tim Lowe, executive vice president of development. Westfield has completed several studies of the deck's condition, and will renovate parts of it.



"It is safe," Lowe concludes.



Westfield will proceed with plans to renovate Crestwood mall itself, beginning in 12 to 18 months.





Developer uncorks new plans for the Bottle District

By Martin Van Der Werf

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

05/11/2006

PostMay 12, 2006#36

Westfield Group Announces Transactions With Centro Properties Group and Somera Capital Management

09 May 2006





The Westfield Group (ASX: WDC) announced today that it has entered into agreements to divest eight (8) US non-strategic assets, raising US$550 million in separate transactions with Centro Properties Group (ASX: CNP) and Somera Capital Management.



?We have decided to divest ourselves of these non-strategic assets since they no longer fit within our investment criteria nor are they in our long-term redevelopment plans,? said Group Managing Director Peter Lowy. ?We are constantly reviewing our properties for opportunities to generate higher returns for our shareholders. The recycling of capital into higher returning developments is consistent with the Group?s long-term strategy and these transactions are similar to the sales last year of non-strategic properties in the United Kingdom: the Brunel Centre in Swindon and the Millgate Centre in Bury.?



The Group has entered into a series of agreements with Centro for the sale of two (2) centres and the contribution of an additional five (5) centres to new investment vehicles managed and controlled by Centro, with Westfield retaining a minority limited partner interest in the investment vehicles of approximately 5%.



The value of the seven centres to be transferred by Westfield reflects an initial cash yield of approximately 7%. Westfield will reinvest the proceeds in its redevelopment programme where the company generates 9%-10% initial cash yields and 14% unleveraged internal rates of return.



?We have a history of working well with Centro and are pleased that we were able to complete a transaction that is beneficial for both companies,? said Peter Lowy.



The Group has also agreed to sell Northwest Plaza in St. Ann, Missouri with a lettable area of 1,768,524 square feet to Somera Capital Management for US$47 million. The carrying value of Northwest Plaza as of 31 December 2005 was US$41.6 million.



The transactions are expected to close within 60 days and are subject to certain conditions which should be satisfied over the next 30 days.



The divestiture of these eight (8) centres will reduce gearing levels of the Group by approximately 80 basis points and will result in a slight short-term dilution of the Group?s operational segment earnings as the proceeds are being reinvested in higher yielding and higher quality developments.



The distribution forecast of A$1.065 per security will not be affected for the 12 month period to 31 December 2006.



The assets involved in the Westfield/Centro transaction are as follows (US$ millions):



Sale Properties



Centre Name Location Lettable Area (sq ft) Ownership

Interest Sale Price Carrying

Value

Enfield Square

Enfield, CT

720,366

100%

$ 88.9

$ 87.9



Westland

Lakewood, CO

476,829

100%

32.9

28.3



Contributed Properties



Centre Name Location Lettable Area

(sq ft) Ownership

Interest Contributed

Value Carrying

Value

Eagle Rock

Los Angeles, CA

456,959

100%

57.0

51.2



Midway Mall

Elyria, OH

1,103,881

100%

98.5

89.3



Richland Mall

Mansfield, OH

727,185

100%

51.2

52.9



West Park Mall

Cape Girardeau, MO

501,038

100%

64.3

63.6



Independence*

Wilmington, NC

1,007,294

77.5%

131.2

119.8



Total







$524.0

$493.0









*The contribution of the Group?s interest in Independence Mall is subject to the satisfaction of certain conditions, including obtaining final approval from an independent third party owner.







Notes to Editors:



Westfield Group



The Westfield Group (ASX: WDC), with a market capitalisation of approximately A$30 billion (US$23 billion), is the tenth-largest entity listed on the Australian Stock Exchange. Operating on a global platform, the Group is an internally managed, vertically integrated shopping centre group, undertaking ownership, development, design, construction, funds and asset management, property management, leasing and marketing employing in excess of 4,000 staff worldwide.



The Westfield Group has interests in an investment portfolio of 128 shopping centres valued in excess of A$51.5 billion (US$39.5 billion) located in Australia, the United States, New Zealand and the United Kingdom.



Centro Properties Group



Centro Properties Group specialises in the ownership, management and development of shopping centres. Centro has a market capitalisation of $5.4 billion and funds under management of $10.6 billion, comprised of retail property holdings in Australasia and the United States. Centro continues to maximise returns to investors through its customer focused and value adding team based approach. Please visit www.centro.com.au

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PostMay 12, 2006#37

Hopefully Northwest Plaza will receive an extreme makeover under new ownership, but I'm also interested to see what Westfield's plans are for Crestwood Plaza. They've done little to improve this mall, while other properties have received major renovations with little or no tax money (Chesterfield Mall, South County Center), and one was demolished and rebuilt with TIF (West County Center).



(Notice I referred to each mall by its pre-Westfield name. No matter how I try, I refuse to call these places Shoppingtowns. It's ridiculous.)



Anyway, I have heard through reliable sources that the Dillard's lease expires next year, and they are unlikely to renew. Meanwhile, keep in mind that Famous-Barr, before the Federated-May merger, expressed interest in becoming the main anchor at the now-aborted MainStreet at Sunset in neighboring Sunset Hills. Now that Federated is in charge, and Macy's is the name, I wonder if there's still an interest in closing and/or relocating this particular store...



I don't mean to sidetrack the discussion, but I think Crestwood and Northwest are in very similar situations. Both were among the first major shopping malls built in Greater St. Louis (Crestwood in 1957, Northwest in 1965). Both are on major local/regional arteries, but off the beaten path of Interstates that developers prefer these days. Both are in aging suburbs. And, both were once open-air malls, as Crestwood was enclosed in the early 1980s and Northwest in the late 1980s. While both malls have many vacancies in the specialty shops, the anchors seem to do relatively well by comparison.



(I also hope that West Park Mall in Cape Girardeau gets an extensive redo. As a former resident of that town and a Southeast alum, I can attest that the mall has not kept pace with the times, or Cape Girardeau's growth. Like the situation at Northwest and Crestwood, the Westfield investment has been minimal.)

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PostAug 09, 2006#38

A shooting in the middle of the afternoon on a weekday is not going to help improve Northwest Plaza's image....



One dead in Northwest Plaza shooting

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

08/09/2006



One victim is confirmed dead in a shooting this afternoon at Northwest Plaza.



Authorities say the person was shot in the Man Alive clothing store by a Berkeley police officer. No further details were available immediately.



The shopping center is at Lindbergh Boulevard and St. Charles Rock Road in St. Ann.

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PostAug 10, 2006#39

Malls are havens of crime



Northwest is no different than Chesterfield, West County, Mid Rivers, or the Galleria.



This shooting could have occurred at any one of them.

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PostAug 10, 2006#40

SMSPlanstu wrote:Malls are havens of crime



Northwest is no different than Chesterfield, West County, Mid Rivers, or the Galleria.



This shooting could have occurred at any one of them.


I guess you haven't been to Northwest recently. It's getting to be more like StL Centre than the malls you listed.

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PostAug 10, 2006#41

Malls are havens of crime



Northwest is no different than Chesterfield, West County, Mid Rivers, or the Galleria.



This shooting could have occurred at any one of them.


Call me crazy, but there is a difference between crime and violence. What happened at Northwest Plaza was violence, not someone getting pick-pokceted or some kid shoplifting.

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PostAug 10, 2006#42

Not to mention that this is the second time someone has been shot INSIDE the mall in the middle of the day. (the last one was at Famous Barr about 10 years ago, but still).



I'm sure there are crime at other malls -- car break ins, maybe a rogue purse snatcher. But NWP is the only mall that I know of that's had shootings inside the stores. It's not a good sign.

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PostAug 10, 2006#43

aimster wrote:Not to mention that this is the second time someone has been shot INSIDE the mall in the middle of the day. (the last one was at Famous Barr about 10 years ago, but still).



I'm sure there are crime at other malls -- car break ins, maybe a rogue purse snatcher. But NWP is the only mall that I know of that's had shootings inside the stores. It's not a good sign.


It's not inside, but there was a shooting in the West County parking lot a couple of years back.



-RBB

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PostAug 15, 2006#44

White Flight has stuck a fork in Northwest Plaza.

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PostAug 17, 2006#45

White Flight retail maybe, but this is still a 85% White area called

Northwest St. Louis County ~ > 100,000 people



St. Ann

St. John

Edmundson

Woodson Terrace

Breckenridge Hills

Overland

Vinita Terrace

Vinita Park

Charlack

Maryland Heights

Bridgeton

Hazelwood

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PostAug 20, 2006#46

SMSPlanstu wrote:White Flight retail maybe, but this is still a 85% White area called

Northwest St. Louis County ~ > 100,000 people



St. Ann

St. John

Edmundson

Woodson Terrace

Breckenridge Hills

Overland

Vinita Terrace

Vinita Park

Charlack

Maryland Heights

Bridgeton

Hazelwood


I guess I have a grudge against St. Charles people. :lol: Anyway, I think it's going to take a huge redevelopment project to get people back to Northwest Plaza (Which will probably happen thanks to their new ownership). It's going to be interesting to see what ends up going on to the old mall.

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PostAug 21, 2006#47

I hope Northwest Plaza can be redeveloped, and that some of the current tenants (esp. the anchors) will stay put. The sooner the better.



The shooting that took place there a few weeks ago doesn't necessarily mean the mall is unsafe. And it wouldn't stop me from shopping there- it's the dwindling amount of quality stores there that keeps me away. However, I am concerned about the perception that follows such a crime, because I have seen mall vacancies rise rapidly to the point where a mall doesn't recover. Bannister Mall in Kansas City and the Mall of Memphis are two good examples. I don't know if Bannister is still open or not, but I know Mall of Memphis has been closed for some time, and earned the nickname "Mall of Murder".



That doesn't necessarily mean that Northwest Plaza is doomed because of one shooting, however, we're talking about perception here and not reality. And the mall has a less-than-stellar reputation, as curfews were instituted a few years back as loitering (usually groups of teens) became a problem. It would be nice to see NWP's new owners come forth with a plan, and even better for the mall's future if it includes at least one new anchor that cannot be found elsewhere in the area, and/or a reconfiguration of the mall to make it unique and more of a destination/regional draw.

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PostAug 21, 2006#48

ThreeOneFour wrote:I hope Northwest Plaza can be redeveloped, and that some of the current tenants (esp. the anchors) will stay put. The sooner the better.



The shooting that took place there a few weeks ago doesn't necessarily mean the mall is unsafe. And it wouldn't stop me from shopping there- it's the dwindling amount of quality stores there that keeps me away. However, I am concerned about the perception that follows such a crime, because I have seen mall vacancies rise rapidly to the point where a mall doesn't recover. Bannister Mall in Kansas City and the Mall of Memphis are two good examples. I don't know if Bannister is still open or not, but I know Mall of Memphis has been closed for some time, and earned the nickname "Mall of Murder".



That doesn't necessarily mean that Northwest Plaza is doomed because of one shooting, however, we're talking about perception here and not reality. And the mall has a less-than-stellar reputation, as curfews were instituted a few years back as loitering (usually groups of teens) became a problem. It would be nice to see NWP's new owners come forth with a plan, and even better for the mall's future if it includes at least one new anchor that cannot be found elsewhere in the area, and/or a reconfiguration of the mall to make it unique and more of a destination/regional draw.


Not only is it closed, it's been bulldozed down. Right now it's just a big empty lot. I recently stayed at the Hampton Inn right by it. Kinda sad to see.



I remember going to the Mall of Memphis when visiting friends in the mid to late 90's. Actually a pretty nice place that was very heavilly leased. Dare I say it was nicer than Crestwood, South County or Northwest Plaza are now. Interesting to see a mall take a dive so fast

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PostAug 21, 2006#49

dweebe wrote:Not only is it closed, it's been bulldozed down. Right now it's just a big empty lot. I recently stayed at the Hampton Inn right by it. Kinda sad to see.



I remember going to the Mall of Memphis when visiting friends in the mid to late 90's. Actually a pretty nice place that was very heavilly leased. Dare I say it was nicer than Crestwood, South County or Northwest Plaza are now. Interesting to see a mall take a dive so fast


I remember it well- I visited a few times in the mid-1990s when I was a student at SEMO, as Memphis was a popular roadtrip destination. The mall's central feature was an ice skating rink, not unlike the Galleria malls in Dallas and Houston. IIRC, there was a food court and/or restaurants overlooking the ice, and the mall had over 100 specialty stores and the usual cast of anchors.



I know that a few years ago, Hickory Ridge Mall opened closer to the Germantown/Collierville area, and that siphoned a lot of the stores located in the Mall of Memphis. I suppose the crimes that occured there only exacerbated the mass exodus. Like the chicken and the egg, I'm not sure which came first.



It is sad to see a thriving mall like this one was die within a few short years. And I agree with you, that this particular mall was in better shape than Crestwood and Northwest Plazas are today. That concerns me, as I could see both of these malls taking a similar dive without swift and drastic changes. I would also think that Macy's and Dillard's won't hang on forever at these locations without major improvements.



I was in Crestwood the other night, and it was somewhat busy. I know they're filling a few vacancies, but I doubt it'll be enough. After all, it's never a good sign when the BreadCo leaves. (The only other time I've seen Saint Louis/Panera BreadCo close is when they open a newer location nearby, as they did in downtown a couple of years ago.)



I think South County Center is somewhat nicer now that Borders and some sit-down restaurants (Noodles & Company, Qdoba, etc.) have been added. Now, if only Macy's (Famous Barr) could do something about that small and crowded store they have there... :wink:

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PostAug 22, 2006#50

ThreeOneFour wrote:It is sad to see a thriving mall like this one was die within a few short years. And I agree with you, that this particular mall was in better shape than Crestwood and Northwest Plazas are today. That concerns me, as I could see both of these malls taking a similar dive without swift and drastic changes. I would also think that Macy's and Dillard's won't hang on forever at these locations without major improvements.


Well, this isn't the first shooting at Northwest Plaza. I don't remember the exact year, but it seems like there was one during Christmastime about 1992-1993. I remember being there a couple of days later, and it was like a ghost town.



But Northwest was already having problems even before that -- anyone remember how once the remodel was completed (about 1990?) on the local news the broadcasts would talk about the "problem" of cruising cars at Northwest? That slow, steady news coverage created fear, and then once a shooting ocurred, it was enough to drive people away.


I think South County Center is somewhat nicer now that Borders and some sit-down restaurants (Noodles & Company, Qdoba, etc.) have been added. Now, if only Macy's (Famous Barr) could do something about that small and crowded store they have there... :wink:


I thought May expanded that Famous when they remodeled in like 1997? Whatever Federated does -- I just hope they don't knock down the rotunda. Granted, that's the ugliest one of the Famous-Barr buildings from that era, but it's still a unique style. I'm still mad at May for tearing down the perfectly good old West County store. :P

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