^^ security won't solve the problem now, it'll only make it worse. West Olive 16 used to never have a security station - now it does. That's something people notice. If you never had security, and now all of the sudden you do, it send the message that this area isn't safe anymore, and you go somewhere else.
So the problem with NW plaza is clearly the people shopping there. Hmm...what can we do about that?
^It's not the pure shoppers as much as the Mallrats loitering around not doing anything better. And unfortunately this group will not be placated by the manager of Casual Male getting arrested, or a cameo by Stan Lee.
The problems so well put down by CitySoul are furthered by the lack of quality stores there. Personally, the only reason I shop at NW is to get Starbury basketball shoes ($15 a pair, solid quality, great story), but otherwise I have no desire for the majority of the stores. And this from a guy who spent many weekends watching movies there in high school.
It's part of the larger picture, where consumer demographics match up with area geographical statistics, positioning current store lineups, and luring new stores to the area. A massive gutting of the site, formerly the Largest Mall in America, is necessary and overdue.
Northwest Plaza USED to be the regions premier shopping mall. I think it was built in the 60's as an outdoor mall. I really don't think there's much hope of reviving this mall unless they somehow lured IKEA or something totally different. A new Walmart, etc. isn't going to cut it either.
I thought the following article from the Post-Dispatch last Sunday really highlights the struggles at Northwest Plaza, and to a lesser extent, Crestwood Plaza.
An aside: I wouldn't say it's one of the best written articles I've read in the P-D, though, as there are countless sentence fragments and some assorted grammatical errors. Hey, who needs to read and write well in an idiocracy?
The fight to save a dying mall
By Todd C. Frankel
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
12/07/2008
ST. ANN — She had to take a photo. Too shocking not to.
Pat Sarantites had just walked down a nearly empty wing of the Northwest Plaza mall. Eighteen vacant storefronts in a row. Window after window covered by the black plastic veil of retail mourning. The scene gave her chills. She wanted a photo to show others who, like her, remembered when this place bustled as the region's premier mall. As Dionne Warwick's "Walk On By" poured from the mall speakers, Sarantites pulled a digital camera from her purse.
"It's desolate. It's spooky. It's like science fiction," said Sarantites, 65, who drove from University City to shop at the Sears here a few days before Thanksgiving. "It is unbelievable."
Northwest Plaza once was billed as the world's largest shopping center. It is the region's largest mall. More than 1.7 million square feet. An Edward Jones Dome worth of shopping. It opened in the mid-1960s as an outdoor mall with gardens and sculptured water fountains. The region's only mall with four department store anchors. It went indoors in 1989 under a massive new canopy. Sales boomed.
But in recent years, Northwest Plaza has slipped. Once home to 210 stores, there are now fewer than 40. One of its biggest tenants, Steve & Barry's clothing, closed two weeks ago. And next month, another major tenant, Dillard's, plans to shutter.
Across the nation, the golden era of the massive shopping mall seems to be dimming. And in the St. Louis region, no mall represents that once-proud time better than Northwest Plaza.
The Article had a good graphic showing the location of all the area malls. It gave the impression, rightly so, that we have one two many malls and that the more successful malls our next to the freeways. Northwest Plaza and Crestwood Plaza will have a tough time keeping competitive in my mind by just looking at that graphic.
The one idea that seems more logical for Northwest Plaza for its location and being along Lindbergh Blvd is a mixed used redevelopment with a heavy dose of dense housing. St Louis companies that are doing well and expanding are within 10-15 minutes commute from St. Ann (Express Scripts, Centene, Scott trade, ect). A good chance to redevelop housing in a urban setting with one landlord.
The article mentions a "Bridgeton Wal Mart". Did the author incorrectly identify the Wal Mart on Rock Rd in St. Ann as a Bridgeton location? Or, have I been away from the area so long that I've forgotten the boundary line that separates St. Ann from Bridgeton?
StL_Dan wrote:The article mentions a "Bridgeton Wal Mart". Did the author incorrectly identify the Wal Mart on Rock Rd in St. Ann as a Bridgeton location? Or, have I been away from the area so long that I've forgotten the boundary line that separates St. Ann from Bridgeton?
I wondered that too, but a Bridgeton city map shows that it encompasses the land north of St. Charles Rock Rd and west of Cypress, inlcuding Walmart.
StL_Dan wrote:The article mentions a "Bridgeton Wal Mart". Did the author incorrectly identify the Wal Mart on Rock Rd in St. Ann as a Bridgeton location? Or, have I been away from the area so long that I've forgotten the boundary line that separates St. Ann from Bridgeton?
I wondered that too, but a Bridgeton city map shows that it encompasses the land north of St. Charles Rock Rd and west of Cypress, inlcuding Walmart.
My brother, dad and I, about 8 years ago, went to NWP one afternoon for a little Christmas shopping and we never went back. Many of the stores were basically selling guady blingy jewelry clothing that catered to the "thug" lifestyle. In addition to not offering us anything that we would have been interested in buying, the mall was desolate, save for sporadic groups of thugged out teenagers in large wandering groups that gave the place a very bad vibe. I remember thinking to myself,"man, I don't know if this place is too safe, maybe we should get the hell out of here."
Previous to this NWP experience, I had went to the mall 4-5 years earlier(this would be about 1996) and thought it was pretty cool. There was a huge arcade in the basement and still plenty of people shopping. The "thugs" did have a small presence, but overall the place felt safe.
If anyone is looking to rent a house right near the NWP (for whatever crazy reason), there is a 3 bedroom available March 1st. If anyone knows of anyone who would like a decent home in the Pattonville school district, please post a reply. Thank you.
The main ussue is the type of people that shop there now. It's the reason why all of the good stores have closed down. I hate to say it, but perhaps they should remove the bus stops surrounding the mall. Maybe then they'd bring in a different class of people and be able to open up some decent stores.
This is old news, but since the forum has been out of commission for awhile, I thought I should mention that Macy's at Northwest Plaza will close in a couple of months. The RFT article above makes reference to this, along with plans for a mall walk to show support for Northwest Plaza this upcoming Saturday.
I hope this group can draw some attention to the mall's plight. I think it will take an innovative mixed-use plan to bring this mall back to life, especially now that only one anchor (Sears) will remain, and who knows how long it will stick around now that Macy's is leaving?
While the decline of this mall and others can be attributed to a lot of things, including changing tastes in retail that have contributed to the thinning of department store anchors in malls across America, I still think the zero-sum competition between St. Louis-area suburbs for the same sales tax dollars coming from a stagnant population base has more to do with the decline of this mall and others (Crestwood Plaza, Jamestown Mall, Alton Square) than any other factor (including criminal activity or the perception of it). And as long as that practice continues, plans to redevelop Northwest and similar malls are going to be difficult to realize.
Sears, which is the single remaining department store at Northwest Plaza will be closing. Liquidation sale starts on Friday and it will be closed by July 14.
Well, so much for Sears being part of the new development. I wonder what G.J. Grewe thinks they can bring to this site when all four of the former mid-level department stores have given up on the property and only a handful of businesses remain. If I had to guess, their business model involves stealing businesses from other nearby areas, continuing the time-honored tradition of zero-sum retail relocation in Greater St. Louis.
I only went to Northwest Plaza a handful of times before it was enclosed, but when I think of how it looked then, I think it's all a bit ironic and sad. Now open-air shopping has become fashionable again. Unfortunately, the changing demographics of the area that led to the exodus of stores makes the idea of taking the mall back to its glory days pretty much impossible.
I'm sure whatever the replacement will be, it will pale in comparison to the original, not unlike the Boulevard on the Plaza that replaced Northland Center.
It must be hell to live in North County and to want for some new clothes that are a cut above those that can be found at Target and Walmart. At one time Northwest and Jamestown were among the nicest malls in the area, now they are just embarrassments.
the count wrote:Northwest Plaza was sold at auction yesterday. I believe the winning bid was $2.8 million. The buyer was not disclosed. Anyone?
At this point you have to believe at this point that the land that the mall sits on along with the office tower is worth more the mall structure itself.
I would suggest that a better long term goal is to bulldoze the mall structure, give an architect a crack at desining a mini commercial zone centered around the existing office tower and the rest as residential. In other words, its location is not bad for a mixed use development being along Lindbergh and within easy proximity of employment centers around the Airport and Earth City as well as proximity to CBD (think reasonable bus trips to give alternative option to the auto). In fact, you can argue that the county should have focused its time and energy developing a mixed use development at Northwest Plaza before Jamestown mall.
doug wrote:What does retail have to do with warehousing?
To elaborate on Doug's comment. Why would you want to encourage another site for warehousing/light industrial when you already have three competing parks literally on the East, North and West side of the airport runways (Northpark, former Ford plant and McKee's development respectively)??
Those sites alone have plenty of land waiting to be developed and having one building here and another one here doesn't really make sense. You might as well as throw in the fact that you got way way too much retail. That doesn't even account for all the office space options avialable from two competing business districts, to Riverport, to I270&Olive Ave.
At some point, the county has to find a way to encourage residential development with retail/commercial that is supported by the immediate area.
