urbanSTL

No, it's at the entrance to the Grove near vandeventer and Manchester. Near that quick trip.

^ Green Street owns the parcel directly east of the Armory that is now home to the Custom Stone Interiors operation.... they'd have to demo that for their hotel and parking garage. Only way in by car is via S. Vandeventer. The parcel doesn't seem to have direct access to the Metrolink platform so they might have to get some kind of easement for access to the station

Edit... according to a July 1 Post-Dispatch article, Green Street indicated that the parking deck would be the base for a mid-rise tower of t.b.d. purpose.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... ee09b.html

Sounds like since then they've focused on hotel. Unclear though if they plan to build the tower at the same time as the garage or if that would be a later effort.... I assume the garage is intended to be open at same time as the Armory.

^ when i was in town a week and a half ago it looked like the Sweetie Pie's space was already being prepped for a new tenant. any ideas about what's going in there? Alex Ihnen hinted somewhere that the space wasn't going to be vacant for long.

^ good question; I saw workers in there just days after the closing. The only thing I've heard of plans for the building is a possible bed and breakfast on the second floor... it's a great location so I suspect something nice to come along.

also, George Mahe of STLMag missed another upcoming opening on Manchester...

Shisa is opening in the SoHo spot later this month.

STLrainbow wrote:a specialty bar supply shop is slated to open in the new construction mixed-use building.

Is that the new building the Gills have proposed at Newstead & Manchester (4400 Manchester)? Or the new building proposed by Above All Development for the corner of Taylor & Chouteau?

^ sorry about that.... it's the one that was just completed. Not sure when the they plan to open the store. I think there are two retail spots for the building, so there should be one more still for lease. (also, iirc the building slated for Taylor and Chouteau plans to gave ground floor office.)

Update: the place will be called Intoxicology and will open sometime this fall:
http://www.feastmagazine.com/the-feed/s ... 335f9.html

Renders to drool over from NextSTL:

https://nextstl.com/2016/09/spencer-dev ... ite-grove/

I love that first rendering...very cool. Get's my vote!

The second proposal is just too gimmicky.

Regarding the Sweetie Pie's location, I'm actually hoping for a more high end restaurant. Typically I think those are more likely to fail in StL, but in this case, it might be just what the neighborhood needs to diversify it from the other eating/drinking establishments in the Grove. Something like Olive + Oak in Webster. Would make sense if its paired with a high end B&B upstairs.

Has the grove seen a slight setback with the closure of the staples Attitudes and Sweetie Pies or is this just a cyclical thing? I understand establishments come and go, but those 2 were staples. Anyone have a good idea what's going on in the Grove right now? When I'm down there, I see rehabs, new construction proposals, foot traffic and momentum. More new residential can only add to that momentum and night life.

DogtownBnR wrote:Has the grove seen a slight setback with the closure of the staples Attitudes and Sweetie Pies or is this just a cyclical thing? I understand establishments come and go, but those 2 were staples. Anyone have a good idea what's going on in the Grove right now? When I'm down there, I see rehabs, new construction proposals, foot traffic and momentum. More new residential can only add to that momentum and night life.

From what I understand, Attitudes ownership changed hands and the new owners failed to get a permit of some kind, ultimately removing the weekly crowd it had built.


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^ also, Sweetie Pie's unfortunately is in a swirl of litigation and in-fighting which I suspect is what is behind that closure. And as mentioned above, there is a ton of openings coming up.

Perhaps an interesting thing for the Grove will be to see if some of the gay bars begin to migrate elsewhere as the Grove becomes more gentrified/mainstreamed. Wouldn't mind at all if another gayborhood was started in an area in need of some help.

How about a return to the Tower Grove area? The MorganFord business district could really use some help and even South Grand has a few prime locations available for rent that have been sitting out there for months.

STLrainbow wrote:^ also, Sweetie Pie's unfortunately is in a swirl of litigation and in-fighting which I suspect is what is behind that closure. And as mentioned above, there is a ton of openings coming up.

Perhaps an interesting thing for the Grove will be to see if some of the gay bars begin to migrate elsewhere as the Grove becomes more gentrified/mainstreamed. Wouldn't mind at all if another gayborhood was started in an area in need of some help.

South Broadway, Carondelet, or Meramec.


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dweebe wrote:Another thought is that as America changes maybe we don't need gayborhoods any more.

yeah i have a feeling those days are coming to an end. and gay bars seem to be declining in number, probably due to social media. i don't think we'll see a gay district like the erstwhile Manchester strip emerge anywhere else in St. Louis.

^ very well may be right. It'd be interesting to know how things clicked in the Grove as the spot as opposed to some other possible places in the city.

What is interesting is that you don't seem to have the push pack in the Grove for Green Street's proposal, or the Gils next apartment project and definite interest in the Wedge where as some very vocal push back in the Hill (fair bit of the criticism is worth IMO but also a no you can't build anything period) as well as some in Soulard. Will the Grove keep growing or rebounding in part because its a neighborhood that will see projects go forward versus other neighborhoods? I'm I even correct in my thoughts?

^ i'm guessing the demographics of the Grove are very different than those of the Hill, resulting in less NIMBYism. it might also be that the Grove was in worse shape than most other 'hoods and so the development is more welcomed (though I know there have been concerns about displacement).

when i came out in 2001 i didn't know anything about the grove "well it was never called the grove" back then until i got my first experience of gay nightlife well me and some friends had attempted to get into faces however we were too young so they sent us to attitudes where we could get in but we had to wear a wrist band. Its sad to see attitudes go and that building will always hold a place in my heart as being my first ever gay bar experience.. Sadly a lot of gay establishments in Saint.Louis have gone like novaks magnolia's bad dogs clementines to name a few i do fear that jj's may be the next to go! However the Saint.Louis gay community is strong and the grove will likely remain has the headquarters for many bars and other forms of entertainment.. Its great to see a neighborhood that was near death come back to life and starting to find its niche and so will the gay community..
Everything changes for a reason partially the gay community here in Saint.Louis was responsible for giving life to a area left with no future however to others who are willing to welcome change and embrace people for being people.