urbanSTL

Manchester Market can breathe easy!

A redesigned Chouteau's Grove moves ahead in St. Louis

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... b44bc.html

Very exciting. Can't wait to see this thing break ground.

More cheap-looking fiber-cement panels. Really awful. This has got to stop.

not shocked that they couldn't land a grocery store...there are 2 schnucks within 2 miles (Lindell and Arsenal), without few more thousand people in the area there was no way anyone would step on Schnucks turf

Can't forget that Midtown station is probably courting a grocery into its mix as well and with a schedule not nearly as aggressive probably give the demographics/population time to grow some more as residential units come online and a Cortex project pops up. Wouldn't be surprised if cities first Trader Joes is there.

In addition, from a business perspective Midtown station developers are probably making the case that they are equidistance for the most part from SLU (which are building new residence halls), Cortex, and the Grove. Now if Midtown could take a clue from Green Street's original renderings and put a mixed use/residential on Vande!!.

framer wrote:More cheap-looking fiber-cement panels. Really awful. This has got to stop.

Is this a response to the design/rendering? Or to the material in general?

You've got a better understanding of building materials than I do, but I'm not sure it's fair to have a knee-jerk response that all EFIS/Fiber-board is cheap, crappy and awful? It's definitely cheap - which is why builders are increasingly turning to it - but is it necessarily bad?

From the early reports The Standard and Home2Suites look crappy. But the West Pine Lofts, 3949 Lindell, and Central West End City Apartments all seem to have turned out pretty well. Although, those are admittedly mostly brick with EFIS/Fiber-board upper floors and accents. The Moonrise, Cortona (which has the same architect as this project), Vanguard Clayton proposal, and Vanguard CWE proposal have had mixed reviews. With Cortona and Vanguard CWE people seemed either pleased with the more contemporary style or disappointed by the extensive use of EFIS/Fiber-board.

I know it's cheap, but does that have to be bad? Do you think it can it be done well? When you say "this has got to stop" would you like to see a moratorium on the material entirely? Just restrictions on how much of it can be used on a given facade? Or something else?

framer wrote:More cheap-looking fiber-cement panels. Really awful. This has got to stop.

Serious question- What would you rather see used instead?

They simply don't build them like they used to and that's true everywhere, not just St. Louis. I think this is why historic preservation is so important. Building solid brick and stone buildings is just not economical in 2015, at least at the price point that most people can afford. I also think urban form is waaaaay more important than materials, also color scheme is important too. For example, a pink, yellow, or baby blue building may look good on South Beach, but it looks crazy next to our red brick, industrial architecture.

It's mainly the over-all feeling of cheapness that I object to. Large-scale wood-frame construction covered with pre-fab panels gives off a temporary, short-term vibe. Also, these buildings all share a cookie-cutter design, where the only variable is the color and pattern of the panels. It's a boring, cheap, easy way for a developer to get a building up quickly. I just feel we should demand a better over-all product, something that looks like it's meant to last.

wabash wrote:From the early reports The Standard and Home2Suites look crappy.

I agree that The Standard looks wretched, but I actually think Home2Suites looks pretty decent—more streamlined/modern, more compact, better shape. In addition to using sh*tty materials, The Standard is just not well designed or constructed. Even while they were still putting up the Tyvek, the difference in workmanship between The Standard and West Pine Lofts, for example, was glaringly obvious. I'm waiting for a strong gust of wind to take that piece of garbage down (hopefully before it's occupied, of course).

I like this development. Is the space to the east of it going to be empty or was a new bank building built there? I can't recall now.

While I would like every project to be heavy concrete construction, it just doesn't seem viable unless you have a major tenant such as Whole Foods (that also requires a large open floorplan), or you are able to charge a heavy premium. I hope these developments are filling up quickly and we continue all of this construction.

Also when is Vanderventer going to be repaved. It is probably in the top 5 worst roads in the city.

Probably after IKEA is completed.

From the Park Central Development website:

"As part of the project, Green Street will be performing the following public infrastructure upgrades: burying the power lines along Sarah Street, upgrading the MSD sewers, adding public parking, installing new sidewalks, trees, and pedestrian lighting along Sarah and Chouteau, and creating a public plaza at Chouteau and Sarah"

I would have rather have that interesting triangle between Chouteau and Manchester as a refuge for pedestrians or bikers. Plaza's so often end up deserted and underutilized.

Or if we have to lose the triangle, then They should ask for Green Street to build up to Manchester instead of a gaping plaza.

With the right execution that plaza could easily be the busiest bit of public space in the Grove.

There are a few rehab projects on the FPSE Development Committee agenda: http://www.parkcentraldevelopment.org/f ... 015-530pm/

The Grove is looking GOOD these days:

From thegrovestl instagram feed

Nice to see this little spot next to Handble Bar getting some love. Is that the international sign for Falstaff Beer above the doorway?

Also from thegrovestl instagram feed

How is progress going with the 4321 Manchester UIC project?

More new housing coming soon...

http://nextstl.com/2015/07/contemporary ... the-grove/