MoDOT and the city have been working on a plan for a few years now about what to do with all the stub ramps and wasted space at the 22nd Street interchange. Obviously, there's not going to be an I-755 built to use them. So I came up with an idea that would use the current exit/entry points to and from I-64 and would connect Chouteau Avenue to Market and provide direct access to and from westbound I-64 to Union Station. The yellow areas are land that could be sold to finance the project, and the only business that would be displaced would be the air ambulance service. You can even keep the fountain!







Thoughts? Is this a horribly stupid idea?

Something more like this?







I don't know why MoDOT hasn't commissioned either of us for engineering work.

Both of those ideas are excellent, although I really like the single-point interchange as it frees up the most real estate for development.

To maximize development, I'd actually prefer to see a full diamond interchange at Jefferson and have the ramps removed at 22nd street.

jonkleinow wrote:Obviously, there's not going to be an I-755 built to use them.

Thank god.

Thank god.

Oh, sure, say that now. But when the zombie hordes are heading your way and a freeway moat around downtown would be the only way to stop them, you'll be sorry.

How about a single point interchange at Jefferson (Like Kingshighway) and a 22nd street without the interchange but with the vaiduct over the railroad tracks.



The second thought that comes to mind. This configuration opens up the possiblity of an Ikea store. Just a thought, some one made a comment on a thread at one point about Union Station was talking to Ikea.

TheWayoftheArch wrote:And as for MoDot, we're probably too expensive.

And it's probably at least 30 miles too far to the east for MoDOT. I'm sure they'd love to build something similar leading to one of the few remaining cow pastures around Wentzville, however.

I think this is in the "Ready to go" projects from the Conference of Mayors on page 145 under "Chestnut/I?64 Interchange Reconfiguration" for $29 million.



Link

quincunx wrote:I think this is in the "Ready to go" projects from the Conference of Mayors on page 264 under "Chestnut/I?64 Interchange Reconfiguration" for $29 million.



Link

That's interesting, since the page on MoDOT's site doesn't have any design details or anything. I guess the city took the initiative to get it designed and ready to go. Does anyone know what the city has in mind, then?

I can tell you that all of those projects listed by the City are not 'ready to go' , this would be one of them. I'd say the list from the Conference of Mayors is a wish list. Some of the projects are closer to implementation(like Wellington bridge). Others like Northside/Southside MetroLink are really only in preliminary stages.

brickandmortar wrote:I can tell you that all of those projects listed by the City are not 'ready to go' , this would be one of them. I'd say the list from the Conference of Mayors is a wish list. Some of the projects are closer to implementation(like Wellington bridge). Others like Northside/Southside MetroLink are really only in preliminary stages.

Your probably right about all these urban projects being in preliminary stages. I would guess that less than half of them are really ready, but I also know that financial incentive makes things move a lot faster. I have all the confidence in the world that if this package passes, the Northside-Southside metroink will be giving the green light 2009. Slay knows that if he doesn't hop on this opportunity now, the city of St. Louis will never see the money for metrolink. I'm sure all the other city mayors share similar sentiments. I feel confident that the mayors will get their way win Obama gets in office and St. Louis will definitely get its piece of the pie.

goat314 wrote:
I have all the confidence in the world that if this package passes, the Northside-Southside metroink will be giving the green light 2009. Slay knows that if he doesn't hop on this opportunity now, the city of St. Louis will never see the money for metrolink. I'm sure all the other city mayors share similar sentiments. I feel confident that the mayors will get their way win Obama gets in office and St. Louis will definitely get its piece of the pie.

I certainly hope so. This may be our only chance to get the money for the line for quite a while. We certainly can't finance the project ourselves.



Does anyone have links to the proposed line? I'm interested to see exactly what the route is supposed to be. Jefferson? Grand? Kings Highway? Along old railroad tracks?



Edit: Never mind. I found some on the East-West Gateway's website. Just about what I assumed. That southside line would be great and the northside line would certainly help in the renaissance of North City.

I honestly think the city can do a lot more for itself if it would give up on the North/southside light rail line. This would be a true white elephant. My basis is the employer density map for the region. After you build the Daniel Boone Extension you have covered the major employment areas, central business districts, airport and instituions by Metrolink. Any further commuter options can easily be accomondated by improved express bus services.



I would rather see some street car lines built that tie into the existing Metrolink spline. Grand Ave, Jeffereson Ave, MLK could be done at a fraction of the cost, fraction of the time and operations could be paid for with TDD's. Maybe some improvements that straightens the current line through Grand Ave area (keep it on the north side of Hwy 40 is what I mean) and/or rebuild stations to accomondate three vehicle consists.

I have all the confidence in the world that if this package passes, the Northside-Southside metroink will be giving the green light 2009. Slay knows that if he doesn't hop on this opportunity now, the city of St. Louis will never see the money for metrolink. I'm sure all the other city mayors share similar sentiments. I feel confident that the mayors will get their way win Obama gets in office and St. Louis will definitely get its piece of the pie.

I don't believe you are correct about St . Louis. Some cities are going to do fine, but St. Louis may not be one of them. We are a community with declining public revenue, declining core area employment, and soon declining regional population.



Next, we were told that new starts are not eligible for the stimulus package. While there are a ton of them in the list of Mayor's projects, where will the local funding come from to operate Northside Southside. Do you think the feds are going to fund 100% of the capital? The city has no obvious and adequate source of revenue to support even the system it has.



Metro's budget this year is $221 million. Next year it will be $179 million.



We will have parked 150 buses and 22 rail cars. We are going to shut down one bus garage and eliminate operations from one rail facility.There is at least one transit system that will pay us $50 million for excess rail cars.



Where is the operating funding to support what we have let alone a new rail line?



St. Louis is not only gutting its transit system, we are going to lose the ability to recover fairly soon.

goat314 wrote: I have all the confidence in the world that if this package passes, the Northside-Southside metroink will be giving the green light 2009. Slay knows that if he doesn't hop on this opportunity now, the city of St. Louis will never see the money for metrolink. I'm sure all the other city mayors share similar sentiments. I feel confident that the mayors will get their way win Obama gets in office and St. Louis will definitely get its piece of the pie.

not a chance! Why makes you so confident?

Well anything is possible.



We were told by APTA that new starts projects at this level would not be funded. You are several years away from a full funding request. Stimulus money be able to be implemented in 120 days and completed in two years.





Northside Southside isn't that far along yet.



The project must have a approved financial operating plan. There is no financing plan that could support this sort of federal investment.



Do you know where Metro will get the funding to operate this system?

Moorlander wrote:

goat314 wrote: I have all the confidence in the world that if this package passes, the Northside-Southside metroink will be giving the green light 2009. Slay knows that if he doesn't hop on this opportunity now, the city of St. Louis will never see the money for metrolink. I'm sure all the other city mayors share similar sentiments. I feel confident that the mayors will get their way win Obama gets in office and St. Louis will definitely get its piece of the pie.

not a chance! What makes you so naive?

There, I fixed it for you.

There's a few paragraphs on the 22nd Street interchange in the Paul McKee article in the PD.

People who have made deals with McKee can't wait forever. A few years ago, the Missouri Department of Transportation set aside $10 million to rework the 22nd Street Interchange on I-64 (Highway 40), on the condition the city of St. Louis come up with the rest of the money.

The project would free up 38 acres of prime real estate on the western edge of downtown, land McKee has been looking at for years. His plan — and the city's — was to use money from the NorthSide TIF to fund the effort and put office towers on the site.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 65bb3.html