urbanSTL

Alex Ihnen wrote:^ This all appears about a wisker from collapse. It's going to domino - either toward development or a heap of vacant buildings and empty dreams.

Which is why the city needs to be there with a plan when and if it does. If McKee's finances are stretched thin and much of his debt is rapidly coming to a head all at once, the city should be there to purchase north side parcels back at current low market value -- market value set, in large part, by McKee himself and his destructive methods of land assemblage. Obviously, the TIFs go back into the kitty and can be used for their actual purpose of infrastructure, construction and preservation -- rather than asa developer's personal collateral.

From there, create a north side standard with none of the McKee frills -- some streets designated as residential only, some as business/resident, all built to the sidewalk, all connected via the grid. Then the city finds multiple developers/contractors with a realistic vision and strong work ethic to piece these neighborhoods back together.

Final step: Promote, promote, promote and get people to buy in to the new Near North.

So is something going to happen soon? Or is it when McKee is ready? The MODOT site is in a coma.

http://www.modot.org/stlouis/major_proj ... change.htm

Here's what McKee envisions. What do you guys think?

I like the idea of a tower which "book ends" the gateway mall... No scale which I can tell other than it dwarfs the western most peak of Union Station (visible at right of 2nd image) which has a (roughly) 100' pinnacle height. Appears to be >500'. Demand for this building from Wells Fargo? New location of a revised 1000' MWtower?

Other than the fact that I'd rather this development happen on the numerous existing parking lots closer to the river, it looks great! Now all McKee has to do is (as they say hurr in missura) "show - me".

I would say Wells Fargo would be the most likely driver. MW tower isn't happening.

I would also love if Kellwood jumped on board. Wish they had a tower with a store on the bottom 2-3 floors with just their items. Also include a Fashion/modeling school. I wonder if Kimora Lee and/or are too big to be associated with that school?

stlien wrote:I would say Wells Fargo would be the most likely driver

I believe there is significant unused space on the WFA campus.

stlien wrote:MW tower isn't happening.

I know... I was joking.

moorlander wrote:I believe there is significant space on the WFA campus for expansion.

Yes, from what I hear they have more than enough room in their existing DT campus... the place they need/are looking for more space is in Chesterfield and St. Charles Co.

My main (smart a$$ and obviously understated) point was that there is no need (that I know of) for more office space... so while a 60 story building would be awesome... it shouldn't/couldn't happen at this time. As had been said on this forum innumerable times, I would rather have three or four 20-30 story infill buildings built at market demand than one 80 story megastructure which causes a "musical chairs" effect - emptying existing class A offices.

I love the optimism of this plan (where is it from?), but unless there is another Master Card up his sleeve, even McKee is smoking crack by displaying this scale of building. Back to topic at hand: I have long advocated for a simple grid aligned SPUI or diamond interchange (as shown) for the new 22nd Street intersection. I would also love to see the plan take into account a future southerly connection (across what is now UPRR rail).

People always say there's "significant" space on WF's campus. I have yet to hear what "significant" space means. What do you consider "significant" space? And "more than enough room" for what?

The only outside chance of bringing someone from the outside world, pardon my pun, to be a major tenant is the on and off discussions that local financial companies are trying to persuade a New York firm to relocate or at least a major portion of its operations to St. Louis. The idea makes sense and hope they succeed considering the presence of Stifel Nichols, Wells Fargo Securities, Edward Jones, etc.

However, I see one of two things happen before a McKee's proposed tower if they are successful in landing such a firm. First, the full lease of ATT tower will expire by 2017 and the place is already half empty. A new major tenant, the owner and ATT would probably strike a deal in a heartbeat if given a chance. Second, To me it makes sense to build the second BofA Tower if its Morgan Stanley which I believe is owned by Bank of America or any other financial firm if they really want the smell of new built building. Both ATT Tower and a second BofA tower would be a good location along the mall, looking over City Garden and view of the Arch, active areas as well as being close to Busch Stadium.

dredger wrote:Second, To me it makes sense to build the second BofA Tower if its Morgan Stanley which I believe is owned by Bank of America or any other financial firm if they really want the smell of new built building.

maybe we could convince them to build one of the other 3 mercantile bank towers instead. they're much more attractive. http://vanishingstl.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... first.html

Why does the tower have to be for commercial use? I thought I remembered McKee saying that a tower at the end of the gateway mall would be some of the most sought after residential property in the city.

We've seen how well the Park Pacific did. Why couldn't this be similar?

I'd prefer residential. You'd get foot more foot traffic other than just during the day. Union Station would also do a lot better.

Came up in the US thread. There's a "future connector road" accounted for in the Jefferson Ave Bridge replacement plan. So one exit and entrance ramp at Jefferson and one exit and entrance ramp at 22nd?

http://www.modot.mo.gov/stlouis/major_p ... isplay.pdf

mill204 wrote:^ I wouldn't be surprised if this is simply the staging area for I-64 construction between Kingshighway and Sarah.

Second that - if you look at the debris piles you can see concrete rubble, rebar, etc.

If something was going on here than MoDOT's page for the Interchange would have been updated-something that hasn't happened in a DECADE...

http://www.modot.org/stlouis/major_proj ... change.htm

McKee says the interchange project will start in June with the TIF $. He also said he would be reducing Jefferson to 4 lanes and a median from its current 7 lanes. There will also be beautification work done on Cass.

The renderings show the street lined with numerous mid-rise buildings and one glass high-rise. Any chance that's how it will actually turn out?

^ who knows, but the rebuilt 22nd street interchange is in the Union Station TOD plans and I've heard rumors that McKee and other big developers were indirectly involved in some of those TOD plans. Some developers like Drury, Lawrence Group, and the Cardinals were directly involved in TOD plans so I guess that some of these studies do reflect future visions and plans.

Goat, curious on source of info? Was it from McKee's last neighborhood town hall style meeting that happened last week? Think it was last week but seemed to get little press coverage in the PD, Business Journals, etc. Any rumblings on any of proposed housing that suppose to happen later next year? I think he was pushing 40 or units initially if I remember correctly

The rebuilt interchange and removal of the inner parkway remnants seems to be the best part of the plan/vision to date. It will be interesting to see how much street grid comes back, or if vision changes for West Downtown. I still believe a soccer specific stadium is doable in this area in long term plan. However, I believe that would require leaving a mega block between the rebuild 22nd street and Union Station.

I thought the stadium was supposed to go directly south of the train shed.

dredger wrote:Goat, curious on source of info? Was it from McKee's last neighborhood town hall style meeting that happened last week? Think it was last week but seemed to get little press coverage in the PD, Business Journals, etc. Any rumblings on any of proposed housing that suppose to happen later next year? I think he was pushing 40 or units initially if I remember correctly

The rebuilt interchange and removal of the inner parkway remnants seems to be the best part of the plan/vision to date. It will be interesting to see how much street grid comes back, or if vision changes for West Downtown. I still believe a soccer specific stadium is doable in this area in long term plan. However, I believe that would require leaving a mega block between the rebuild 22nd street and Union Station.

No, I didn't go to that town hall meeting because I'm out of town way too much (I'm a traveler spend half of the year in Florida). I heard McKee had preliminary plans for mixed use at the 22nd street interchange over a year ago from a close architect buddy. He also said that McKee had his hands in Union Station area plans, so I'm assuming he meant the TOD. I haven't seen many of McKee's latest plans, but the Union Station station area plan (which includes the 22nd street interchange) is very similar to many of McKee's early plans (including the capstone project at the western terminus of the gateway mall). This plan can be found on www.onestl.org

^Thanks, Also thanks for posting the link in the Northside thread, I should have read some more before posting earlier. Curious because I think a lot of us our familiar with some of his renderings or what he has passed on as plans and such. But seeing some actual specifics going forward, can say the same for BPV, would be a nice change for once.

My wife would say the same for me. Taking advantage of wifi on my flight tonight to surf before I get home.