urbanSTL

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Apr 15, 2021

^ Oracle isn’t gonna “bust” one day. However, I do agree with you and wish other people in this region would see that chasing corporate HQs aren’t exactly a winner, especially in our new virtual/WFH reality. I bet Oracle even has some employees in St. Louis already lol.

Other than that you’re absolutely right in that St. Louis has a fantastic base of large Fortune 500 companies (and plenty of others) that can drive growth in the future and potential new industry clusters in that future. But unless we clean up the regional, parochial BS...that future “superstar” status ain’t coming here. There needs to be major regional change or our future looks a lot like Baltimore’s. Imagine being only an hour outside of the powerhouse of DC and still being in the doldrums like they are (like we are)...they’re the only other major city with the setup we have (Carson City isn’t major).

I’m not saying regional cooperation would SOLVE our problems...but it would make things SO much easier to address. We can be like Baltimore or we can be like Nashville. One requires regional cooperation and a consolidation and one doesn’t. Which one you think St. Louisans will choose?

Correct. We have absolutely no regional leadership. We have a closed minded progressive STL City, Liberal STL County with an embarrassing amount of cities, and a ***** everyone else Conservative peripheral Counties. Nobody gets along. Nobody likes each other. Nobody collaborates. Everyone tries to one up each other. Anti-growth Nimbyism everywhere.

Until this MSA puts politics aside and combines the City and County into one City with 6-7 districts/boroughs, nobody of value is going to consider St Louis for a HQ or even a regional HQ.

Just imagine a CRE broker (like me) showing around Oracle executives in Downtown St Louis right now?

jbacott wrote: ↑

Apr 15, 2021

100% agree. I've never seen another city as self-defeating as STL. It's the thing that has always bugged me when I see the general pride from people in cities like KC and Indy. Talk to people from there and they are convinced they live in the next superstar city and will be competing with Dallas and Seattle soon (slight exaggeration).

No one - and I mean no one - sh!ts on St. Louis more than St. Louisans. And it absolutely has an effect on the morale of the city.

Eh, I think that honor will always go to Chicagoans...

St. Louis is getting better about this.

As an outsider that has been visiting this city my entire life, and as somebody that lives here now, I think it is undeniable that there is more positivity concerning St. Louis City.

What frustrates me is the people with their heads buried in their a**es out in STL and STC County.

The vast majority of people I've met that have nothing good to say about St. Louis, but still live here, live west of 270.

That's not to say I haven't met people from STC County that loved the city or people from the city that hate it, because I have.

Easily, the worst attitudes I find are from former city residents that moved to St. Peters a decade ago.

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^Agreed. I think no income taxes have a part to play in Nashville's success, but really it's a combination of a few factors: 1) large university system 2) central location in the middle of the state, 3) it's a state capital. The country music identity really helps. 

Memphis is in the same state and isn't nearly as booming. It is a border city with three states in the MSA and lacks the constant flow of dollars from the state government, lobbyists, and employees.

I really like the comparison between Baltimore and Nashville though. Which would you rather emulate? I wish Better Together would have focused on some smaller wins to try to get some regional cooperation - instead they went way too big and were largely reckless with their lack of planning. Maybe the freeholders can examine a soft reentry and a bunch of administrative, noncontroversial departments  / agencies being merged. No one would even realize it or even bother to care if the Recorder's offices, sheriffs, departments of health, housing authorities, transportation divisions, and parks divisions in the City and County were blended together in the next few years. Other more controversial functions (police, fire, courts, prosecutors) can and should be handled later.

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Apr 16, 2021

^^^ Am I the only St. Louisan that goes to Chicago and doesn’t get sh*t on?  I spend a lot of time there for work and other things and they seem to be like us with Kansas City...they don’t give a sh*t.

Most people I came across in Chicago had nicer things to say about St. Louis than the natives I interact with here...

I've mostly had good relations with Chicago natives. I think the Cubs/Cards rivalry spills over into trash talk sometimes, but stepping away from Baseball it's mostly been fine. Chicagoans have mostly been friendly to me. (And excited to show off their town when I'm there or see mine when they're here.)

And honestly, I can't think what would be more fun that watching a Cubs/Cards game at Busch with a good Chicago friend. Not going to try that at Wrigley, but . . . you know. I'm not stupid.

kbshapiro wrote: ↑

Apr 15, 2021

Until this MSA puts politics aside and combines the City and County into one City with 6-7 districts/boroughs, nobody of value is going to consider St Louis for a HQ or even a regional HQ.  

Bunge did. 

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Apr 16, 2021

^^^ Am I the only St. Louisan that goes to Chicago and doesn’t get sh*t on?  I spend a lot of time there for work and other things and they seem to be like us with Kansas City...they don’t give a sh*t.

Most people I came across in Chicago had nicer things to say about St. Louis than the natives I interact with here...Livin

Living in Chicago for 20 years I can verify it's just like STL with KC.  Born and raised Chicagoans could care less.  The comments I've received are generally positive.  Plenty who've said they travel to St. Louis and enjoy themselves.  Specific comments about great architecture.  Others have said they have contemplated moving to St. Louis to reduce costs.

We are a gnat to Chicago. Beyond baseball and hockey, we're a non-factor.  Chicago's problem is that Dallas and Houston will smoke past them within the next decade if the current trends hold.

We used to think that about KC, but that gap has been closing rapidly. 

Minus the crime fragmentation’s & other nagging kinks I absolutely love almost everything about St.Louis. The size cost of living amenities 4 seasons I’m fortunate to living here. I don’t want rapid growth but a good progressive growth can go a long ways. Nashville is one of my few favorite cities so I’m happy for them. St.Louis will eventually get there it’s a matter when.


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dweebe wrote: ↑

Apr 16, 2021

Again, there is no way for us to compete with Nashville. Having the state capital there pays off so many dividends. 

Could you see anyone in Jeff City lifting a finger to do anything to attract Oracle (or a similar firm) to St. Louis? Never.

Well, the point has been made over and over again, but for some reason it seems it needs to be. Any comparisons between St. Louis and any of these upstart cities like Nashville are meaningless. It's apples and oranges because the history of growth and economic dynamics is completely different, and therefore the political realities are completely different. 

None of these cities, whether it be Indy, Columbus, Nashville, KC, Charlotte, Denver, or anything-in-Texas, have the rust belt legacy to overcome, or in many cases, boast. They were all cowtowns, some quite literally, when St. Louis was a booming international industrial powerhouse and the fourth-largest city in North America.  They have all experienced their population and economic booms, in many cases multiple booms, long since then.

The only apt comparisons for St. Louis are with the strip of older Rust Belt cities between Milwaukee and over to Philly, then up and down the northeast corridor between Baltimore and Boston. All of these cities have the same problems, and in most comparisons, I'd say St. Louis fairs quite well.

Tony Giarratana, a well known developer in Nashville, has proposed a 45-story, 610ft tall condo tower at 800 Lea, which is at the Korean Veterans Boulevard Circle next to the Music City Center (convention center). With this building, along with the Circle South Office Building, the Ritz Carlton Hotel and Residences, and the nearing completion 805 Lea, the roundabout/traffic circle will have skyscrapers on all sides with the exception of the Convention Center.

Interesting floor plates with this building too. Estimates put it at 120 condos. Only 60 parking spaces will be included and will be done via valet.





Meanwhile, just up the road and over from here near Nashville Yards, Giarratana just started construction on the Alcove at 900 Church Street (34-stories, 418ft, 356 apartments) and Prime at 801 Church (38-stories, 456ft, 358 apartments and 511 parking spaces). Both will rise simultaneously with the garage at Prime serving the Alcove.


No updates regarding Tony's biggest project, Paramount Tower (65-stories, 750ft) at 600 Church Street, have been made. But with three big towers in the works, I would think that Paramount would wait a little while.

Looks like stacked-box towers are the new twisting-tower. 

I often wonder how Nashville turned itself into a boom town. It wasn't all that long ago that their downtown area was so depressed and unsafe that the Grand Ole Opry actually left the legendary Ryman Auditorium and built a new theater out in the burbs. We could certainly learn a few things from them. 

chriss752 wrote: ↑

Apr 17, 2021

Lol. Well, it's very pretty, but this can't be a serious proposal. That plan implies basically two very tall towers connected by about a 10' wide strip of structure, which...is pretty much unpossible.

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Apr 18, 2021

Lol. Well, it's very pretty, but this can't be a serious proposal. That plan implies basically two very tall towers connected by about a 10' wide strip of structure, which...is pretty much unpossible.

It's decent looking, but will look like a box from basically all angles.

I sort of thought this was a joke project, but Giarratana is seeking approval for it according to the Nashville Post and will appear before the MDHA Design Review Committee next week. If built, it would be a feat of engineering considering just how thin it will be.

Plus, the entire West wall will be mostly blank concrete. So imagine that. A 610ft tall concrete wall.

dweebe wrote: ↑

Apr 20, 2022

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Apr 20, 2022

It really is an oddball location. Auto-centric and no decent pre/post options. In St. Louis terms it would be like if they built in Cortex but MetrolInk didn't exist.

No way, it’s something like one of these two sites.

dweebe wrote: ↑

Apr 20, 2022

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Apr 20, 2022

It really is an oddball location. Auto-centric and no decent pre/post options. In St. Louis terms it would be like if they built in Cortex but MetrolInk didn't exist.

Yeah Googling the location first I was thinking  the closest area for food/drink would be 12th Avenue South--which is still at least three miles and ten minutes by car. But it does look like there is an emerging artsy neighborhood nearby--Wedgewood/Houston--that wasn't on my radar the last time I spent a significant time in Nashville several years ago. I'll be back in a few weeks and will check it out.