I doubt a MLS stadium would be large enough for national team crowds.jstriebel wrote: Additionally, I think we're going to start seeing a lot more exhibition soccer games and/or USMNT and USWNT games played here once we get our own stadium.
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Doesn't Sporting Park in KC fairly regularly play host to national team games? Maybe I'm wrong.MarkHaversham wrote:I doubt a MLS stadium would be large enough for national team crowds.jstriebel wrote: Additionally, I think we're going to start seeing a lot more exhibition soccer games and/or USMNT and USWNT games played here once we get our own stadium.
^^Looks like since opening in summer 2011 the Sporting KC stadium has had six international men's matches, five international women's matches, and seven men's U-23 matches (all U.S. or otherwise), since it opened in summer 2011.
Considering their success at Busch and Ed Jones I find it hard to imagine a 20,000 seat St. Louis soccer stadium not hosting Bosnia and Bosnia U-23 at least once a year.
Considering their success at Busch and Ed Jones I find it hard to imagine a 20,000 seat St. Louis soccer stadium not hosting Bosnia and Bosnia U-23 at least once a year.
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Yeah but KC isn't a soccer city like StL.jstriebel wrote: Doesn't Sporting Park in KC fairly regularly play host to national team games? Maybe I'm wrong.
Good point, we could host more U-23s in a MLS stadium.wabash wrote:^^Looks like since opening in summer 2011 the Sporting KC stadium has had six international men's matches, five international women's matches, and seven men's U-23 matches (all U.S. or otherwise), since it opened in summer 2011.
Considering their success at Busch and Ed Jones I find it hard to imagine a 20,000 seat St. Louis soccer stadium not hosting Bosnia and Bosnia U-23 at least once a year.
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I think the Pevely site makes the most sense. Its near institutions but also close to places where people actually live and play. Plus, there is most developable land around it. However, there isn't so much empty, developable land around it that the stadium would be on an island (like it would be on the north riverfront).dredger wrote:Pevely sites just don't make as much sense to me. Yes, their is availability and on top of SLU south campus. Yes, near the Grand metrolink station. But, your pretty much away from Midtown & still a fair walk to the Grove and is RW really going to be excited about setting off a smoke bomb next to a hospital?
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Heck, for that matter start talking to CORTEX/Lawrence group now and put it at the Federal Mogul site!!! RW can set off his smoke bomb on the newly refurbished trestle on his way back to the Boyle Metrolink station and your not to far off from Vande/just as close to the Grove
As it stands now, Clark Ave and the areas around Union Station are not lively or walkable. That space does not need another stadium or large institutional building. A soccer stadium will only prolong that super block...
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^ one of the benefits of the site across Pevely is that it likely would have low site development costs and the property is already off the property tax rolls. N. Riverfront would have high site costs (and likely take some parcels off the tax rolls as a subsidy). Not sure about Clark/Union Station area, probably that would be somewhere in between the two. I also like as a potential site to look at that acreage across the elevated lanes from Busch with the large GRG owned surface lot in the "chouteau greenway" area.
In terms of economic benefit for surrounding biz, I think MLS can be competitive with NFL.... season attendance can approach NFL #'s and I'd venture to say that in an urban atmosphere MLS fans spend more $$ outside the stadium than NFL fans do with the latter's heavy emphasis on tailgating. Downtown bars and restaurants might benefit just as much if not more from 17 MLS matches at 20K-25K fans than 8 NFL games of 50K-60K.
Looks like most teams don't get cities to directly pay for stadium bonds but do receive other subsidies like property tax abatement, tif, etc.. but in some cases like D.C. it looks like cities can be on the hook for hefty "public" infrastructure costs for site development. As a whole, I doubt they are a boon to local govt. budgets (player payrolls I believe are under $5M, e.g.) but if subsidies are kept in check I'd think there isn't much risk either.moorlander wrote:$120 million isn't all that much. KC sporting stadium was $200 mill last decade.
Are most MLS stadiums privately funded?
Would an MLS team with more home games have a similar economic economic impact vs a NFL team?
An MLS team may have more games but NFL teams have many more players to tax and most of them likely make significantly more money than MLS players.
Off the top of my head I'd estimate 75 or so players and coaches for an NFL team and maybe 1/3rd of that in an MLS team....
In terms of economic benefit for surrounding biz, I think MLS can be competitive with NFL.... season attendance can approach NFL #'s and I'd venture to say that in an urban atmosphere MLS fans spend more $$ outside the stadium than NFL fans do with the latter's heavy emphasis on tailgating. Downtown bars and restaurants might benefit just as much if not more from 17 MLS matches at 20K-25K fans than 8 NFL games of 50K-60K.
How much space is there in the I64/21st Street/Market/Jefferson area?
If this really happens, I'll be way more likely to go to an MLS game than I ever was to go to a Rams game.
30+ acres.dweebe wrote:How much space is there in the I64/21st Street/Market/Jefferson area?
In my opinion building a stadium north of the 22nd street interchange is the best course of action: its close to a tremendous number of apartment/condo complexes, it sits between lindell and market (two of the busiest east-west streets in the city), it fills a massive gap between midtown and downtown with the possibility of encouraging even more development in downtown west, and it is in close proximity to the cbd which should encourage even more foot traffic downtown. No other site has this many pros: pevely is an island and i cant imagine how awful grand would be on gamedays/days of events, and north riverfront would be an incredible investment and would be encouraging for the landing but the highway plus the edj acts as a great barrier between north riverfront and downtown.
the mckee area north of 22nd street interchange is the best location by a mile
the mckee area north of 22nd street interchange is the best location by a mile
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The SPACE Architects idea is an interesting one but I don't know if I love it.user28 wrote:In my opinion building a stadium north of the 22nd street interchange is the best course of action: its close to a tremendous number of apartment/condo complexes, it sits between lindell and market (two of the busiest east-west streets in the city), it fills a massive gap between midtown and downtown with the possibility of encouraging even more development in downtown west, and it is in close proximity to the cbd which should encourage even more foot traffic downtown. No other site has this many pros: pevely is an island and i cant imagine how awful grand would be on gamedays/days of events, and north riverfront would be an incredible investment and would be encouraging for the landing but the highway plus the edj acts as a great barrier between north riverfront and downtown.
the mckee area north of 22nd street interchange is the best location by a mile
As user28 mentioned, if it is going to be downtown, I'd prefer the area north of the 22nd street interchange. As seen here:
Its still near Union Station and may spur some more redevelopment there as well....such as a redesigned Metrolink station that leads into Union Station itself with a more straightforward path to the stadium.
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^ I'm completely sold on that space and I believe you wouldn't need to knock down a single building (although I'm a bit confused on what the 22nd Street interchange precisely is) and as user28 mentioned would help make for a more seamless downtown west/midtown.
^ & ^^ I'm also sold. A lot of great potential locations have already been mentioned on this thread, but this just might be the best:
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It's the aborted beginning of an inner-inner-belt concept that fortunately never got traction beyond the waste of space that is the 22nd Street interchange. Basically, it's long overdue to be done away with.roger wyoming II wrote:I'm a bit confused on what the 22nd Street interchange precisely is
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^ If done right it could be our version of Portland's cool Providence Park stadium, sort of the Wrigley Stadium of MLS.
Especially if we build Saint Louis Streetcar down Olive:
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Especially if we build Saint Louis Streetcar down Olive:
What about the south side of Market between 20th and 22nd? Yeah it takes Maggie O's, the Police Pension Building and Harry's but it removes the gaping wound of the ramps. Plus it puts it closer to more parking and Metro while it allows the north side of Market to be filled in.wabash wrote:^ & ^^ I'm also sold. A lot of great potential locations have already been mentioned on this thread, but this just might be the best:
It's the aborted beginning of an inner-inner-belt concept that fortunately never got traction beyond the waste of space that is the 22nd Street interchange. Basically, it's long overdue to be done away with.roger wyoming II wrote:I'm a bit confused on what the 22nd Street interchange precisely is
It wouldn't hurt my feelings if you took away those office park style FBI buildings and the too far setback Courtyard hotel for practice fields.
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^ comes to mind that if NGA relocates to north city it might not be a bad idea to have FBI go with it.
But if a 22nd Street Interchange stadium were to go south of Market, I'd abut it next to the highway and redevelop the area along Market and hope that the Courtyard and some of that other suburban crap around there could also make way for more urban environment... I'd love to see WFA also build on their lot south of Market where the MCM hotel tower used to be.
But if a 22nd Street Interchange stadium were to go south of Market, I'd abut it next to the highway and redevelop the area along Market and hope that the Courtyard and some of that other suburban crap around there could also make way for more urban environment... I'd love to see WFA also build on their lot south of Market where the MCM hotel tower used to be.
while the area south of market along the 22nd street interchange is appealing (and i agree very important to redevelop for the sake of a continuous and connected central corridor), it is lacking in the area by comparison just to the north in the way that i find most appealing: useful integration into the surrounding urban landscape.
the area between olive and market is accessible from every direction because there is an existing grid which it is surrounded by or can be built around it. the lots surrounding it are great prospects for development; this location for stadium development is the best of all possible locations if we want to create an environment similar to what is seen in portland or surrounding wrigley. That is where the area south of market and at union station just dont match up. each are limited in accessibility: the area to the south of market by the potential off ramp from the highway and union station by the highway and union station itslef.
I understand that it would be incredible to have all sports along clark (what an incredible atmosphere that street could be), though I am more in favor of the area north of the 22nd street interchange for the reasons stated above and in my last post. I can be persuaded, however, and the renderings are impressive (arent they for every project though?)
the area between olive and market is accessible from every direction because there is an existing grid which it is surrounded by or can be built around it. the lots surrounding it are great prospects for development; this location for stadium development is the best of all possible locations if we want to create an environment similar to what is seen in portland or surrounding wrigley. That is where the area south of market and at union station just dont match up. each are limited in accessibility: the area to the south of market by the potential off ramp from the highway and union station by the highway and union station itslef.
I understand that it would be incredible to have all sports along clark (what an incredible atmosphere that street could be), though I am more in favor of the area north of the 22nd street interchange for the reasons stated above and in my last post. I can be persuaded, however, and the renderings are impressive (arent they for every project though?)
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For perspective, here are the plans for some other new MLS stadiums:
Orlando
Capacity 25.5k
DC
Capacity 18k-23k
Orlando
Capacity 25.5k
DC
Capacity 18k-23k
That DC one is clunky: 3 decks on one side and 1 on the other? Reminds me of Philips Arena in Atlanta or Levi's Stadium where all the luxury boxes are on one sidemoorlander wrote:For perspective, here are the plans for some other new MLS stadiums:
DC
Capacity 18k-23k
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^ Looks like Orlando City is averaging over 30,000 right now at the Citrus Bowl (and attracting more season attendance on par with Dolphins and more than Bucs and Jags),... may need some more seats!
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or 25.5 is just enough to drive up prices while keeping the cost of the stadium lower. 
Design released for Union Station stadium location.
http://kplr11.com/2016/01/25/new-plans- ... n-station/
http://kplr11.com/2016/01/25/new-plans- ... n-station/
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Please. Can we move on from our addiction to sports? One league stiffs us and now we are whoring for the next league to accept us.
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No.downtown2007 wrote:Please. Can we move on from our addiction to sports? One league stiffs us and now we are whoring for the next league to accept us.
Next question.