MLS in STL

CarexCurator · PostJan 28, 2016#1262016-01-28T01:20+00:00

Perhaps mass shareholder membership like those two teams is difficult, but there are other non-profit models. USL is a bit friendlier to it. Our team is pretty much a non-profit. The Sounder's USL team is partly non-profit too.
http://www.sounderscommunitytrust.org/

I think it's probably more an issue of there not being a big enough non-profit out there to carry an MLS team. Even the sounders only got to 20%. The Memphis Redbirds had a good thing going as a non-profit until the Cardinals ate them. It's just hard to scale up without big private investment. If you're focused on slow and gradual growth towards excellence though, I'm sure it's possible.

St. Louis' USL team has a good structure as a youth driven team. It could grow into a solid base for an MLS team if we nurtured it.

MarkHaversham · PostJan 28, 2016#1272016-01-28T13:38+00:00

Sports teams are prestige investments by rich people who want to hang out with other rich people. Even if you put together a public ownership group, MLS wouldn't sell to you unless you sweeten the pot by dramatically overpaying or something.

downtown2007 · PostJan 28, 2016#1282016-01-28T15:19+00:00

^Yep. If you want an MLS team you need a rich owner to take the lead. The mass shareholder approach will not work.

We need someone to take the lead and less cheerleading/pie in the sky stadium renderings.

beer city · PostFeb 05, 2016#1292016-02-05T00:59+00:00

Garber and the MLS are actively looking for stadium and pursing ownership groups -

Evidently looking at the Rams site - which makes sense - a lot of the leg work has been done - a SSS will be smaller than NFL with much fewer parking requirements - Hopefully less demo

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... JY.twitter

Aesir · PostFeb 05, 2016#1302016-02-05T04:39+00:00

It will be difficult to persuade the public that an MLS stadium is worth taxpayer support, he acknowledged. But the league believes it is, and will try to prove it.

When David Peacock is involved, you can bet the tax dollar whoring will be going full blast

Whats more, this is right on the same day as this tidbit

Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge Maryland Heights development

Just say no to the whores, St. Louis.

CarexCurator · PostFeb 05, 2016#1312016-02-05T05:01+00:00

How uncomfortable. The guys that spent $16 million are still rolling along? Surely we're not talking about an HoK MLS stadium with room for an NFL expansion stadium next to it? Please not that. I've seen the renderings and they're lame.

This would be so much more interesting if it wasn't Slay, Nixon, and Peacock leading the way.

Mound City · PostFeb 05, 2016#1322016-02-05T16:45+00:00

CarexCurator wrote:How uncomfortable. The guys that spent $16 million are still rolling along? Surely we're not talking about an HoK MLS stadium with room for an NFL expansion stadium next to it? Please not that. I've seen the renderings and they're lame.

This would be so much more interesting if it wasn't Slay, Nixon, and Peacock leading the way.

No, it wouldn't. If Slay, Nixon and (especially) Peacock weren't leading the way, no one would be.

chaifetz10 · PostFeb 05, 2016#1332016-02-05T16:48+00:00

I'm more optimistic that Garber has received numerous phone calls about team ownership from St. Louis people. At the very least, a strong group should be able to be formed for a new team... I can only hope that we get a heavy hitter in there like DeWitt.

Mound City · PostFeb 05, 2016#1342016-02-05T17:02+00:00

chaifetz10 wrote:I'm more optimistic that Garber has received numerous phone calls about team ownership from St. Louis people. At the very least, a strong group should be able to be formed for a new team... I can only hope that we get a heavy hitter in there like DeWitt.

I'm not holding my breath.

See: Jerry Clinton

CarexCurator · PostFeb 05, 2016#1352016-02-05T17:06+00:00

Mound City wrote:
CarexCurator wrote:How uncomfortable. The guys that spent $16 million are still rolling along? Surely we're not talking about an HoK MLS stadium with room for an NFL expansion stadium next to it? Please not that. I've seen the renderings and they're lame.

This would be so much more interesting if it wasn't Slay, Nixon, and Peacock leading the way.
No, it wouldn't. If Slay, Nixon and (especially) Peacock weren't leading the way, no one would be.

That was my way of saying that I find this exercise a poor use of time and money for our elected officials. These things are eating up too much political capital that could be spent on more important or more lucrative things. The same scale of attention for MetroLink expansion or finally finishing the trestle, or any of the other items on our big regional laundry list, would be much more appreciated. I mean, did you see how Antonio French's "comprehensive plan" happened during the stadium meetings? Of the two issues, the more important one passed with little discussion or pressure as a means to influence the much bigger debacle that's not really that important to the city anyway, unless it puts us into unsustainable debt.

Mound City · PostFeb 05, 2016#1362016-02-05T17:32+00:00

CarexCurator wrote:
Mound City wrote:
CarexCurator wrote:How uncomfortable. The guys that spent $16 million are still rolling along? Surely we're not talking about an HoK MLS stadium with room for an NFL expansion stadium next to it? Please not that. I've seen the renderings and they're lame.

This would be so much more interesting if it wasn't Slay, Nixon, and Peacock leading the way.
No, it wouldn't. If Slay, Nixon and (especially) Peacock weren't leading the way, no one would be.
That was my way of saying that I find this exercise a poor use of time and money for our elected officials. These things are eating up too much political capital that could be spent on more important or more lucrative things. The same scale of attention for MetroLink expansion or finally finishing the trestle, or any of the other items on our big regional laundry list, would be much more appreciated. I mean, did you see how Antonio French's "comprehensive plan" happened during the stadium meetings? Of the two issues, the more important one passed with little discussion or pressure as a means to influence the much bigger debacle that's not really that important to the city anyway, unless it puts us into unsustainable debt.

Fair enough. As a fan of sports and one who particularly appreciates the civic pride aspect of pro sports fan culture, I respectfully disagree, but I see your point.

jstriebel · PostFeb 05, 2016#1372016-02-05T18:15+00:00

Sports has impact on our city and it can be a positive one.

I don't mind that time and effort is spent evaluating and even working towards the existence and promotion of it in our city.

What i mind is when we make a bad deal out of it. Here's hoping we won't do that with the MLS.

CarexCurator · PostFeb 05, 2016#1382016-02-05T18:38+00:00

I'll take pride when a team belongs to fans and the city, like the Packers. So long as the team is just a rich guy's hobby leeching off a host community, I'm out.

If the MLS starts offering shares to regular fans at reasonable prices in exchange for voting power, I'll buy.

jstriebel · PostFeb 05, 2016#1392016-02-05T19:33+00:00

CarexCurator wrote:I'll take pride when a team belongs to fans and the city, like the Packers. So long as the team is just a rich guy's hobby leeching off a host community, I'm out.

If the MLS starts offering shares to regular fans at reasonable prices in exchange for voting power, I'll buy.

This isn't going to happen any time soon unfortunately. I still enjoy a community sports team the way I take pride in other privately owned businesses.

If they're committed to the community, they don't need to be owned by it.

Mound City · PostFeb 05, 2016#1402016-02-05T20:00+00:00

CarexCurator wrote:I'll take pride when a team belongs to fans and the city, like the Packers. So long as the team is just a rich guy's hobby leeching off a host community, I'm out.

If the MLS starts offering shares to regular fans at reasonable prices in exchange for voting power, I'll buy.

Yeah, that'll never happen, but it's a nice thought. If you think there isn't real value to the civic pride tied up in the success of the privately-owned Cardinals, for instance, then I dunno what to tell you.

pattimagee · PostFeb 05, 2016#1412016-02-05T20:08+00:00

They did the fan-funded team this with Nashville FC and I would imagine that a Louligan funded partial owner could make it a much more palatable group. I know its probably much different seeing as they started with a smaller stake, but I'd be curious how much money it could drum up.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2014/02/1 ... -city-word

CarexCurator · PostFeb 05, 2016#1422016-02-05T20:58+00:00

Mound City wrote:If you think there isn't real value to the civic pride tied up in the success of the privately-owned Cardinals, for instance, then I dunno what to tell you.

It's weird, but I've been to an FC Barcelona game at Camp Nou, but never to a Cardinals game in the current stadium. I'm glad the Cardinals are successful, but I much prefer the little ones that fly around and hang out by my windows. They're here all year round.

Do the owners still live in Cincinnati? I don't remember.

I still enjoy a community sports team the way I take pride in other privately owned businesses. If they're committed to the community, they don't need to be owned by it.

I guess I did buy a Budweiser in a Japanese convenience store once with something like pride, but it passed pretty quickly. Of course we should appreciate local businesses. I take pride in local family owned businesses, but I have no feelings about Energizer, Emerson, SunEdison, etc. other than that I hope they make good land use decisions and contribute to our economy. I barely respect those companies that demand welfare under the threat of them packing up and going elsewhere.

jstriebel · PostFeb 05, 2016#1432016-02-05T22:24+00:00

CarexCurator wrote:Do the owners still live in Cincinnati? I don't remember.

Bill DeWitt, Jr., I believe , makes his primary home in Cincinnati still. But he's in and around St. Louis A LOT. He's also from St. Louis.

His son, team president Bill DeWitt III, lives in town and is very visible around the community. Is it a totally local ownership group? Maybe not technically. But it's an ownership group invested in St. Louis. (That doesn't mean they alway make the best choices for our city. But they care about it.)

CarexCurator · PostFeb 05, 2016#1442016-02-05T22:39+00:00

^ I don't have anything against them really since the Cardinals extortion event is behind us for now, but I've still got this bowling hall of fame sized hole in my heart that for some reason just isn't getting filled..

PostFeb 08, 2016#1452016-02-08T19:54+00:00

People are very serious about MLS in St. Louis. Look at these TEDx talks coming up.
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/ted2016-dr ... 50?aff=es2
http://www.tedxgatewayarch.org/event_post/dream-2016/

8:00 pm (to be aired live on KTRS 550 AM) Live TED still has another 45 minutes to go

Panel Discussion and Lecture: "The Business of the Soccer DREAM " *

Tim Hayden, Founder of Stadia Ventures VC firm, will lead this panel to discuss the financial / business aspects of bringing a Major League team to St. Louis. We've brought a diverse group together that have varied expertise and experience with the business side of the game. Who might want to own the team? Who might want to sponsor it? Stadium naming rights, PSL, ticket costs...? What does a local soccer farm team system look like? (ie Lou Fusz and Scott Gallagher) What are some best practices for successful MLS teams in other markets?

Eli Hoisington, Lead Stadium Designer from HOK
Jim Woodcock, Senior Vice President and Partner, Sports Business, FleishmanHillard
Vicky Lynch - Sports Promoter, Lynch Sports & Events
Additional Panelist TBD

*A David R. Calhoun Memorial Lecture

Mound City · PostFeb 08, 2016#1462016-02-08T21:53+00:00

http://qz.com/611864/american-footballs ... or-soccer/

"This Sunday, Feb. 7 millions of people around the world watched America’s biggest game night: the Super Bowl. But even though the Denver Broncos came away technically victorious last night, the bright lights of San Francisco’s Levi’s Stadium could not hide the fact that one brand of football is on the rise while another may soon be in decline."

addxb2 · PostFeb 10, 2016#1472016-02-10T05:27+00:00

What would an MLS stadium that looked like the old arena be like?

CarexCurator · PostFeb 10, 2016#1482016-02-10T15:53+00:00

I saw more than a few indoor soccer games there as a kid. I'm sure if we tried to build something like that today it would come out as tasteless as the Grand overpass.

Better if a new stadium is drawn from existing context, for instance if it used the Belt Building on one side in a Camden Yards sort of way. The Belt Building would provide an immense looming backdrop and the park could be built out at grade from the base of the building towards the river. The result would be something like a "big mound" visible from the rest of the river.

The only trouble is the tracks down Lewis Street? How much would it cost to lower them, build a short tunnel, and mound the stadium over the top? If you look at the North Riverfront plan from GRG they have three buildings extending out from the Belt Building and Lewis Street goes under them in about the same way.

Something like this looking to the bridge or the arch.

But since it would be built at grade it would drop off as it heads to the river and could have a big earthen berm around it like so,

However, I still think that Nestle Purina should make better use of their corporate logo. They used to make Chex cereal as an edible version of their logo and they used checkered patterns greater than 9x9 for neckties and all sorts of things. In the chess capital of the world, they should be funding red and white chess boards around town and setting up a new "checkerdome" for chess around their corporate campus as a callback to their corporate past and their current place in St. Louis culture. Wouldn't their employees enjoy a red and white checker park full of chess tables and giant park chess sets? It'd be so easy to landscape around such an obvious Alice in Wonderland sort of theme. I don't think rebuilding the arena for chess would require as large of a building, but it could certainly be a rehashing of the original.

dredger · PostFeb 10, 2016#1492016-02-10T17:36+00:00

^ Peacock's Rams stadium group had an agreement with TRRA, Terminal Railroad Association, which I believe is the current owner of the tracks to relocate and move the tracks around the stadium footprint. Which would have required demo of the old Cotton Belt freight house (long skinny building). Pretty sure their is a budget estimate/cost associated with it that the stadium task force is aware.

I'm interested in what Pres has stated. A soccer stadium built on the surface lots in front of the Casino in the foreground and therefore well connected with the landing would make much more sense. However, not sure if enough space available but it would certainly fill in a gap and keep current structures in place. You can replace the surface lots with structured parking as per the Arch Grounds RFP for additional landing parking. If not, Union Station/Clark/West Downtown makes more sense.

I think the biggest issue in all this. Does Peacock if involved have a Ownership Group? Nothing will happen period until an ownership group with the financial ability to buy a franchise and pull a stadium together steps forward.

CarexCurator · PostFeb 10, 2016#1502016-02-10T17:38+00:00

There is an interesting thread to the MLS in St. Louis conversation that compares to the MLS in Atlanta story.

The Atlanta Silverbacks were a very popular team with strong supporters http://terminuslegion.com/thank-you-silverbacks/, but the MLS team that arrived ignored them completely. Under different ownership and a glut of money, the MLS team let the fan favorites die.

Saint Louis FC has a very strong foundation and partial ownership by a supporting non-profit that can keep them locally grounded. It's the ideal team to represent our region. There are several scenarios the Atlanta lesson offers.

A) MLS, Nixon, and Slay work out a giant barrel of pork and bring in some billionaires from Florida for a public stadium, and Saint Louis FC disappears. The billionaires make a lot of money and move the team around as needed to extort the public for more.

B) Saint Louis FC gets some extra owners and becomes an MLS team while tax dollars maybe build a stadium. Maybe the public pays the $100 expansion fee out of some desperate need for glory.

C) A very fancy urban stadium of MLS-quality is built in the city possibly with public support and given to Saint Louis Scott Gallagher. Saint Louis FC uses it as a USL team for a while. Saint Louis FC dominates the USL and gives MLS teams a hard time in the U.S. Open Cup until it becomes obvious to everyone it is an MLS quality team. Saint Louis FC stubbornly hangs out in the USL upsetting the balance of the soccer pyramid. MLS drops the expansion fee and the team gets promoted.

A or B is what people seem to want. C is what the St. Louligans seem to prefer.

MLS in STL

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