urbanSTL

Here's the deal on SC STL owning the land...

“SC STL holds an exclusive option to purchase the property through an agreement with the Land Clearance and Redevelopment Authority of St Louis,” the release said....

The release didn’t mention any direct state funding for the project. It said “owners have had discussions with the state of Missouri for assistance with site development and infrastructure, primarily using traditional economic development tools available through the state.”

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/st- ... r#stream/0

Again I don't think that is such a big deal for the land south of Market where the actual stadium will be but I am very concerned about them having their hands on the prime land north of Market. That needs to stay with the city with the city's future mixed-use development interests in mind.

Jason Rosenbaum ‏@jrosenbaum
. @StengerSTLCo spokesman Cordell Whitlock says #mls2stl's plan doesn't include "request for public money from the County for the stadium.”

Yea I figured that was the case. A shame as the cost could have been split pretty well but most likely wouldn't pass in the county

STLrainbow wrote:Here's the deal on SC STL owning the land...

“SC STL holds an exclusive option to purchase the property through an agreement with the Land Clearance and Redevelopment Authority of St Louis,” the release said....

The release didn’t mention any direct state funding for the project. It said “owners have had discussions with the state of Missouri for assistance with site development and infrastructure, primarily using traditional economic development tools available through the state.”

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/st- ... r#stream/0

Again I don't think that is such a big deal for the land south of Market where the actual stadium will be but I am very concerned about them having their hands on the prime land north of Market. That needs to stay with the city with the city's future mixed-use development interests in mind.

Agreed. We just need to look down the street to see how that plays out. Tax breaks will be given with promise of development of parking lots "when market conditions are right", then 10 years pass and the ownership asks for more money to do anything. Have the city control the parking and collect the parking fees. When team owners have money to build something they can transfer ownership.

flipz wrote:
Agreed. We just need to look down the street to see how that plays out. Tax breaks will be given with promise of development of parking lots "when market conditions are right", then 10 years pass and the ownership asks for more money to do anything. Have the city control the parking and collect the parking fees. When team owners have money to build something they can transfer ownership.

If MLS2STL is honest about their intention of "doing right by St. Louis", this would be an excellent solution.

Bizjournal article behind pay wall notes $500 million in sports projects planned. Would that be both soccer proposal out there as well as Scottrade upgrades? Missing anything else? because I'm assuming that biz journals by including both the soccer stadium proposals get a better headline. However, the reality is smailler amount as only one soccer stadium getting built is realistic, a better number would be to say around $350 million in sports projects planned.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... d-and.html

It's at least $400 million:
MLS Stadium - $200m
Scottrade upgrades - $160m
Matheny-Buck Chesterfield Sportsplex - $42m

Not sure where the additional $100m is coming from.

dredger wrote:Bizjournal article behind pay wall notes $500 million in sports projects planned. Would that be both soccer proposal out there as well as Scottrade upgrades? Missing anything else? because I'm assuming that biz journals by including both the soccer stadium proposals get a better headline. However, the reality is smailler amount as only one soccer stadium getting built is realistic, a better number would be to say around $350 million in sports projects planned.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... d-and.html

Would it also include BPV II?

They also want to upgrade the Dome, no team plays there, but it is/was a sports stadium. I imagine that boosts the number to $500M.

"It's at least $400 million:
MLS Stadium - $200m
Scottrade upgrades - $160m
Matheny-Buck Chesterfield Sportsplex - $42m

Not sure where the additional $100m is coming from."

You can also add in the following:
-Soccer complex in Chesterfield.
-The new Blues practice rink and complex ( youth hockey complex)
-Possibly- New Chesterfield hockey organization replacement rink
-Topgolf is more like sports entertainment but could qualify
-Not sure of the status of the soccer complex in Belleville

Not sure how much those equate to....

ricke002 wrote:

dredger wrote:Bizjournal article behind pay wall notes $500 million in sports projects planned. Would that be both soccer proposal out there as well as Scottrade upgrades? Missing anything else? because I'm assuming that biz journals by including both the soccer stadium proposals get a better headline. However, the reality is smailler amount as only one soccer stadium getting built is realistic, a better number would be to say around $350 million in sports projects planned.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... d-and.html

Would it also include BPV II?

The article says it does not include the $220 parking lot Village

regarding the Foundry -

I appreciate the enthusiasm, and the renderings are nice, they would have a long and difficult raod to go

One of the goals of MLS (emulating European clubs) is to create academies that feed and support the individual teams and the league - St. Louis FC is part of the Gallagher soccer family - which if you played in St. Louis you understand the history and culture - They have all the infrastructure in place - an academy, known for producing talent, a minor league complex (that is pretty nice) and a successful USL team that routinely sells out the park - The Foundry does not have that base. Building it from scratch would be very difficult

I have not seen anything released on financing - let alone how they are going to build a stadium using private money, Jeff Cooper had similar problems - and that did not turn out well

If they want to get involved they could pursue a NWSL team - they are there for the taking - Looks like KC's is up for sale and may be heading to Minneapolis, the league is looking for investors.

They may be great guys, and maybe play a part but it looks like they are trying to hit a home run instead of building a culture,

DogtownBnR wrote:

"It's at least $400 million:
MLS Stadium - $200m
Scottrade upgrades - $160m
Matheny-Buck Chesterfield Sportsplex - $42m

Not sure where the additional $100m is coming from."

You can also add in the following:
-Soccer complex in Chesterfield.
-The new Blues practice rink and complex ( youth hockey complex)
-Possibly- New Chesterfield hockey organization replacement rink
-Topgolf is more like sports entertainment but could qualify
-Not sure of the status of the soccer complex in Belleville

Not sure how much those equate to....

Thanks, forgot about Blues pursuing a new practice facility as well as the other various sports/youth/private sports complexes. It will probably just a matter of time before something comes together in Chesterfield. I would assume with ice considering Blues wanting a new practice facility in west county & Top Golf replacing an ice rink.

My first thought was that Foundry was a Rex Sinquefield puppet intended to present a no-public-money alternative long enough for MLS2STL to fail, and then once the well was poisoned they'd mysteriously disappear.

That would be the first nice thing Oedipuss Rex did for the city of St. Louis. (I don't particularly favor public financing of a soccer team. And if that means we get none . . . so be it.)

symphonicpoet wrote:That would be the first nice thing Oedipuss Rex did for the city of St. Louis. (I don't particularly favor public financing of a soccer team. And if that means we get none . . . so be it.)

Do you hate chess or something?

Okay . . . the second thing.

Rex also spends big money behind the scenes in support of local visual arts.

I was trying to be funny. Yes. He spends money on art and has several paintings on loan to the museum. And his wife supports composers, including some friends of mine. Hell, he has in fact directly supported me. Personally. However, I'm inclined to believe we'd be better off without any of the money he spends, as he spends even more on lobbying for charter schools, tax cuts, union busting, and so forth. He's not a bad guy . . . but we agree on so very very little.

That said, I'm inclined to agree with him that public financing of sports stadiums is public financing wasted.

MLS2STL is legit while Foundry doesn't have any real bones although i do love the foundry name.
I personally didn't care for the Foundry location it looked very isolated also i would prefer Chouteau perhaps become more residential and right sized.
I honestly believe the downtown location is perfect and could become more than popular also MLS now prefers all facilities to be downtown..
This could be more than a win for Saint.Louis however i do wish the county could help chip but then again i think the county will possibly help out with possible expansion of the convention center..
80 Mil is a lot of money i wish i had however if i did live in the city i vote yes this is an opportunity that we can't pass up..
I hope theres a way the Foundry and MLS2STL can become likened to each other too form a very formidable well run organization..

So what exactly does this bring to St. Louis? We have out of town investors taking profits out of town. We have local folks spending money on entertainment that they'd spend locally anyway, entertainment being what it is. We lose tax revenue. I see this as a no win proposition if there is public money involved. We don't need any more of that. We've already lost money on the Rams, the dome, the Blues, the Kiel Center, and even, I believe, the Cardinals. I'm done with it. I have a vote. I vote no unless there's something really compelling to change my mind. (Though lord knows I've lost every other election recently, so that's not much of a threat.) The Cardinals at least have some draw from outside the region, so they bring in a little bit of tourism money. What does this bring? Why do people come from elsewhere for a soccer game they can get at home? How does it bring revenue into town that wasn't already here? Sure, it creates some jobs, but what jobs were lost from the things folks didn't spend their money on or invest in? How is this any different than shuffling retail and service jobs around the region chasing the next TIF? I'm very much hoping this will go differently than any of the last several sports projects. I enjoy circuses as much as any good plebe. But I would like to know that our tax money is spent wisely.

People from towns within 200 miles come to St Louis for Cardinal games and other entertainment that they do not have in their own town. Your argument for no public support of entertainment will lead St Louis to be like those towns. Then St Louisans will travel elsewhere to spend entertainment dollars, as we already do for football and NASCAR. There is some level where it pays financially to support entertainment institutions. We should at least support up to that level.

Since the stadium would be government-owned the property will be tax exempt, so
$200M appraised value
* 0.32 multiplier for commercial property
* 0.083818 property tax rate
*30 years estimated lifetime of the stadium
= $161M in property tax subsidy over 30 years.

^ how much property tax is modot paying on the land now? Bet there are multiple zeroes in the number, something like $0.00

gary kreie wrote:People from towns within 200 miles come to St Louis for Cardinal games and other entertainment that they do not have in their own town. Your argument for no public support of entertainment will lead St Louis to be like those towns. Then St Louisans will travel elsewhere to spend entertainment dollars, as we already do for football and NASCAR. There is some level where it pays financially to support entertainment institutions. We should at least support up to that level.

There is some level, but what is that level? The Cardinals are an unusually strong draw. They're clearly the exception rather than the rule. But even they might not have paid off to the level of tax support they've received. It's still a fixed number. I'm not opposed to providing support if that support gets all of us, sports fans and non-fans alike, some tangible benefit. I don't think the Rams drew folks into town from any further than Columbia. (Or at least I suspect they drew no more people than went from here to KC to watch the Chiefs, so I'd bet they were a net neutral in that regard.) Sure, there are some folks and some dollars that will flow elsewhere if there's no team in town. But if the team is owned out of town anyway then the money flows out of town just the same. If MLS wants money they better darn well make a case that this will generate more revenue than the support they get, and from all I saw in the Rams fight I'm skeptical. I'm not at all sure MLS will have even that meager a level of benefit. How many people from St. Louis drive to Kansas City or Chicago to watch MLS? I'd guess the number is pretty darn small on the average game day. Dozens or less, maybe. Probably not hundreds. Multiply that number by the number of games. There's your revenue lost. It won't add up to much. It won't cover the cost of tax write offs. No, that property isn't generating taxes now, but the state is selling that land one way or the other. It could generate tax revenue. It could be commercially developed. You have to compare MLS to what could be, not what is. I'm not opposed to this, just skeptical. I want to see some better arguments than "Gee whiz, I don't want to drive out of state for my sportball fix." And frankly, if it gets built I'll probably go watch a game or two. Didn't like the Busch III funding package. Would have voted against it had I not been in CoMO at the time. Kind of wished they'd have moved to Anchorage at the time. But I'm over it and I go to games every now and then and even like the darn place. So I'm a skeptic. Not a flat out opponent. I just fall into the hyperbole trap from time to time, for which I apologize. (In advance, like as not.)