urbanSTL

PeterXCV wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2025

Are there actually height restrictions in Downtown? My impression has been that everybody thinks you can't build higher than the arch but that there's nothing actually in the zoning saying so, except the lots directly adjacent to the Arch grounds. 

Chris posted this:

There is a restriction north of Chouteau, east of Broadway, and south of Carr that limits buildings to the low 300ft range. The Cordish proposal will need to seek a variance in order to get done at the revealed 45-stories.

On the other proposal, would have actually been a realistic (and successful) location for Hofbrauhaus.

Looks rather sad, though, so nothing of value was lost.

Trying to use photoshop more... no need for critique

I tried to remove the power lines. Instead, found STLs next big monument. 

NextSTL - Cordish proposes complete rebuild of the Millennium site

https://nextstl.com/2025/02/cordish-pro ... nium-site/

PeterXCV wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2025

Are there actually height restrictions in Downtown? My impression has been that everybody thinks you can't build higher than the arch but that there's nothing actually in the zoning saying so, except the lots directly adjacent to the Arch grounds. 

viewtopic.php?p=287944#p287944

-RBB

MoDOT would have to be on board and then there's the money. MoDOT is busy spending all theirs on highway widenings and maintaining their bloated system.

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Feb 23, 2025

Trying to use photoshop more... no need for critique
Mill_Proposal.jpg
I tried to remove the power lines. Instead, found STLs next big monument. 
Mill_Proposal_Funny.jpg

Man, that REALLY balances out the skyline! I think you might have sold me on this with this render....

HUHHA! For you have been critiqued! 

goat314 wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2025

A German village concept (if not done very cheesy) may actually be cool as an infill project connecting downtown to Soulard.

I agree, not a bad looking project in another location. Maybe add the Hofbrauhaus there (where it should have been in the 1st place). The German village would have been a huge hit with all of the many German players & staff at City SC. 

Definitely not the right project for the welcome mat of STL. The Cordish plan is great!

They were going to name a fake german village after the Kings of France. Makes sense.

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2025

On the other proposal, would have actually been a realistic (and successful) location for Hofbrauhaus.

Looks rather sad, though, so nothing of value was lost.

IMO the best location for a Hofbrauhaus is the German Theater at Jefferson and Lafeyette....damn Scientologists. 

If we’re allowed to tear things down, I think a Hofbrau would be best replacing one of the Kiener Garages or Mike Shannon’s. Oh well. Ship sailed.

stlnative wrote: ↑

Feb 24, 2025

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2025

On the other proposal, would have actually been a realistic (and successful) location for Hofbrauhaus.

Looks rather sad, though, so nothing of value was lost.

IMO the best location for a Hofbrauhaus is the German Theater at Jefferson and Lafeyette....damn Scientologists. 

The Church of Scientology actually has the building up for sale. They have I think for at least a year now....I suspect the reason it hasn't sold yet is because either the asking price is too high...or people who are investors simply are not willing to provide profit to their cult through sale. Every time I see that building with that sign out front, I hope for it to say sold. Hell.. under contract even. 

KMOV just reported they are proposing a pedestrian bridge across 44 but no cap.

There won’t be a cap, it would than make it a tunnel and the cost of that is much higher to maintain. The benefit just isn’t there when the east side of it isn’t developable land,

The highway isn't deep enough at Clark. I envision long ramps and/or switch backs. Suboptimal.

This development will be successful without a capping & a pedestrian bridge is better than nothing I think there’s going to be some heavy landscaping with lots of trees to take out the noise


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PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑

Feb 25, 2025

This development will be successful without a capping & a pedestrian bridge is better than nothing   I think there’s going to be some heavy landscaping with lots of trees to take out the noise


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Yes I agree (though maybe not to its fullest potential and mitigate its positives effects on liveliness downtown as it will be somewhat isolated still).

However, I don’t know how they can make an amphitheater work without the removal or extended capping of the interstate.

Downtown or its nearby surroundings needs an outdoor music venue, but I don’t know if we should lose the opportunity for a better location to have this one (and this proposal shows that developers must see their could be demand for one).

We don’t live in a perfect world, so we can’t cherry pick sites but there are numerous sites that would be much more suited for an outdoor amphitheater (in no order):
1) East riverfront with audience facing west
2) Schiller/Eternal Flame parks with audience facing Stifel Theater
3) Parking lot under the train shed
4) Near North Riverfront somewhere between MLK and Cass with audience facing south (potentially part of Lumiere complex)
5) Demo peabody plaza for one (I kid, kind of)

Part of Gateway South would be awesome (and I think a previous proposal at the site included one) but I think noise would be an issue there too.

I don’t know how large of an amphitheater we are talking nor why it is called Eddy. I guess if it’s small and not actually for larger touring groups that currently go to Maryland Heights casino, there is still the possibility for a large outdoor amphitheater to compete for acts on the north or east riverfront. I’m just not sure I get any size amphitheater working exactly where they have rendered it.

You don’t have to be far from an interstate or heavy trafficked railroad, but you can’t be right on top of one like the Millenium amphitheater proposal.

I’m positive about the rest of the proposal

I know for a fact the Northerly Island developers were once interested in Gateway South. Once.

quincunx wrote: ↑

Feb 25, 2025

The highway isn't deep enough at Clark. I envision long ramps and/or switch backs. Suboptimal.

There is a couple floor drop off from 4th to Memorial so if they make the site level to be even with 4th (probably by building semi-submerged parking decks below a podium) then they're high enough to cross the highway and Memorial without much of a change in elevelation on the west side of the highway, the east side would need to be blended into the Arch grounds.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Feb 24, 2025

There won’t be a cap,  it would than make it a tunnel and the cost of that is much higher to maintain.   The benefit just isn’t there when the east side of it isn’t developable land,

There would be a substantial gap between Market and Walnut so would it still be considered a tunnel? Point taken on the economic justification for something like this.

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote:

PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑

Feb 25, 2025

This development will be successful without a capping & a pedestrian bridge is better than nothing   I think there’s going to be some heavy landscaping with lots of trees to take out the noise


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Yes I agree (though maybe not to its fullest potential and mitigate its positives effects on liveliness downtown as it will be somewhat isolated still).

However, I don’t know how they can make an amphitheater work without the removal or extended capping of the interstate.

Downtown or its nearby surroundings needs an outdoor music venue, but I don’t know if we should lose the opportunity for a better location to have this one (and this proposal shows that developers must see their could be demand for one).

We don’t live in a perfect world, so we can’t cherry pick sites but there are numerous sites that would be much more suited for an outdoor amphitheater (in no order):
1) East riverfront with audience facing west
2) Schiller/Eternal Flame parks with audience facing Stifel Theater
3) Parking lot under the train shed
4) Near North Riverfront somewhere between MLK and Cass with audience facing south (potentially part of Lumiere complex)
5) Demo peabody plaza for one (I kid, kind of)

Part of Gateway South would be awesome (and I think a previous proposal at the site included one) but I think noise would be an issue there too.

I don’t know how large of an amphitheater we are talking nor why it is called Eddy. I guess if it’s small and not actually for larger touring groups that currently go to Maryland Heights casino, there is still the possibility for a large outdoor amphitheater to compete for acts on the north or east riverfront. I’m just not sure I get any size amphitheater working exactly where they have rendered it.

You don’t have to be far from an interstate or heavy trafficked railroad, but you can’t be right on top of one like the Millenium amphitheater proposal.

I’m positive about the rest of the proposal

An eddy is a small current that’s separated from the main flow current. I’m guessing they’re going with theme of the Mississippi River/Missouri River. River line confluence eddy.


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If this were built today per the proposal, would this be the tallest building in STL or MO?  I really would like to have the tallest building in MO be in STL at some point.