sc4mayor
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PostJan 07, 2020#851

^ That’s pretty much where N/S is at too. Just doesn’t have the funding source Illinois has provided. As N/S is currently planned it’s only going to run from Fairgrounds to Jefferson and Chippewa. The route has already been determined and it would just be the one municipality.

Having said that I would agree that 3 years is still a pretty aggressive timeline.

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PostJan 07, 2020#852

urbanitas wrote:
Jan 06, 2020
Isn't it very possible that all of our current public mass transit technology, and maybe the very concept itself, will become obsolete in the next couple of decades?
The self driving car and podded personal people mover gurus like to think so, but the fact of the matter is that all of these are still low density, high cost per passenger mile technologies. In the end a car is a car, no matter how you control it. It ain't "mass" transit and pretty much by design cannot be. And steel on steel will always give you lower energy costs than rubber on asphalt, all other things being equal. They're not always, of course. Which is why rubber on asphalt can be useful. But for truly massive mass steel wheels are the way to roll. All depends on your projected passenger numbers. Density, basically. And there really is a certain "build it and they will come" mentality to transportation in the US. The railroads brought us Kirkwood and Webster. The streetcars brought us Holly Hills and the Southtown Famous. The automobiles and federal highways brought us Crestwood. The interstate gave us Wentville and Arnold.

I don't know about you, but the steel wheel style stuff is much more to my taste. Of course, the walkable is even better. (Soulard, for instance.)

Train good car bad. Bus . . . okay. *suspicious side-eye* ;-)

(And yes, I have and drive a car. For the sheer joy of it. But my "miles driven" is way down since I moved to the city.)

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PostJan 07, 2020#853

Isn't it very possible that all of our current public mass transit technology, and maybe the very concept itself, will become obsolete in the next couple of decades?
It can be argued that transit in its current for is already obsolete. Fare based transit is simply a worse transportation option for most trips for the average car owner. To leverage mass transit effectively in this century its gotta be FREE

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PostJan 07, 2020#854

Did anyone go last night? I tried but couldn't make it in time.

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PostJan 07, 2020#855

So the first thing to know is that this wasn't a North-South Metrolink update per se. I realized later that some people misunderstood this as such. Mostly, this was a report by the committee that manages the funds from the sales tax that passed a few years ago. Most of the meeting consisted of 
- One of the committee members and Stephen Conway stumbling through their reports
- Saying that the committee hasn't met since April and won't meet again till April or May
- 60% of the fund is for N-S MetroLink, the remainder is split into 10% increments involving neighborhood planning are other planning along the route. 
- Someone with the city's urban planning agency did a lot of self promotion in the middle of the meeting, it was odd
- John Collins Muhammad spoke at length about how the north side hasn't changed much for the better but never once mentioned transit
- Christine Ingrassia asked if the funds are being invested, the committee couldn't answer i.e. no
- A woman with Metro spoke about their TOD development plan along the N-S alignment, Alderman Muhammad stepped out at the beginning of her presentation
- The meeting ended after Alderman Muhammad returned to the room, through either confusion or ignorance stated 5+ times that the MetroLink plan has no stations in north city despite multiple people correcting him, and then Ingrassia ending the meeting promptly at 7:30 due to the time constraint. 

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PostJan 07, 2020#856

^ After this, and many other past incidents, you have to ask...

Does EWG or Bi-State EVER sit down with alders individually? Don’t they have dedicated government relations staff?

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PostJan 07, 2020#857

Thanks for the update. Sounds about right for a city organized meeting. 😑

How could someone who is in charge of several neighborhoods in a city not even know the details of a large project like this? Yeesh! 

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PostJan 07, 2020#858

aprice wrote:
Jan 07, 2020
So the first thing to know is that this wasn't a North-South Metrolink update per se. I realized later that some people misunderstood this as such. Mostly, this was a report by the committee that manages the funds from the sales tax that passed a few years ago. Most of the meeting consisted of 
- One of the committee members and Stephen Conway stumbling through their reports
- Saying that the committee hasn't met since April and won't meet again till April or May
- 60% of the fund is for N-S MetroLink, the remainder is split into 10% increments involving neighborhood planning are other planning along the route. 
- Someone with the city's urban planning agency did a lot of self promotion in the middle of the meeting, it was odd
- John Collins Muhammad spoke at length about how the north side hasn't changed much for the better but never once mentioned transit
- Christine Ingrassia asked if the funds are being invested, the committee couldn't answer i.e. no
- A woman with Metro spoke about their TOD development plan along the N-S alignment, Alderman Muhammad stepped out at the beginning of her presentation
- The meeting ended after Alderman Muhammad returned to the room, through either confusion or ignorance stated 5+ times that the MetroLink plan has no stations in north city despite multiple people correcting him, and then Ingrassia ending the meeting promptly at 7:30 due to the time constraint. 
To add to that I believe it was mentioned the tax has made 31 million thus far. Otherwise, everything above is spot-on for what happened.

sc4mayor
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PostJan 07, 2020#859

ImprovSTL wrote:
Jan 07, 2020
Thanks for the update. Sounds about right for a city organized meeting. 😑

How could someone who is in charge of several neighborhoods in a city not even know the details of a large project like this? Yeesh! 
John Collins-Muhammad doesn't really seem to know anything.  He might be the dumbest alderman on the board.  Seems like him and many other North Side aldermen are really only interested in getting in a good soundbite for the press (or playing politics with already settled issues like ward reduction) instead of proposing anything that might help their neighborhoods or the city at large.  Which dovetails nicely into certain North Side aldermen holding up the BoF appointees while they hold out for appointments for family and friends.

Really just an embarrassing situation all around with some of them.  Especially with Collins and his history.
Police said Collins-Muhammad, 28, was stopped in the 4000 block of Natural Bridge Avenue at 8:40 a.m. while he drove with a revoked license. A computer inquiry determined that he had four outstanding bench warrants from the city and five traffic warrants from other jurisdictions.  Authorities said Collins-Muhammad also was issued new citations for speeding, driving while his license was revoked and not wearing a seat belt.
A world class idiot.

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PostJan 07, 2020#860

sc4mayor wrote:
Jan 07, 2020
ImprovSTL wrote:
Jan 07, 2020
Thanks for the update. Sounds about right for a city organized meeting. 😑

How could someone who is in charge of several neighborhoods in a city not even know the details of a large project like this? Yeesh! 
John Collins-Muhammad doesn't really seem to know anything.  He might be the dumbest alderman on the board.  Seems like him and many other North Side aldermen are really only interested in getting in a good soundbite for the press (or playing politics with already settled issues like ward reduction) instead of proposing anything that might help their neighborhoods or the city at large.  Which dovetails nicely into certain North Side aldermen holding up the BoF appointees while they hold out for appointments for family and friends.

Really just an embarrassing situation all around with some of them.  Especially with Collins and his history.
Police said Collins-Muhammad, 28, was stopped in the 4000 block of Natural Bridge Avenue at 8:40 a.m. while he drove with a revoked license. A computer inquiry determined that he had four outstanding bench warrants from the city and five traffic warrants from other jurisdictions.  Authorities said Collins-Muhammad also was issued new citations for speeding, driving while his license was revoked and not wearing a seat belt.
A world class idiot.
Please be patient with some of the elected officials in St. Louis. Many grew up around lead paint.

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PostMar 14, 2020#861

Rip up the tracks now boys, High Speed Busses are the future

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PostMar 14, 2020#862

All the more reason to get the number of alderman down to a very small number, less than 10.

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PostMar 14, 2020#863

^^ amazing.

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PostApr 10, 2020#864

Generally i lean on NS metrolink isn't worth it.....BUT money is very cheap right now and i have a feeling we are going to get a MASSIVE federal transportation bill to get people working again, nothing returns a higher dollar on federal investment than transportation-  time to get a $1 billion out of the Feds for NS

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PostApr 10, 2020#865

dbInSouthCity wrote:
Apr 10, 2020
Generally i lean on NS metrolink isn't worth it.....BUT money is very cheap right now and i have a feeling we are going to get a MASSIVE federal transportation bill to get people working again, nothing returns a higher dollar on federal investment than transportation-  time to get a $1 billion out of the Feds for NS
Trump is going to put out another "stimulus" bill for his buddies on Wall St. I doubt we will be seeing any sort of New Deal type program this time around. Even though we need it greatly. Maybe if the Democrats can landslide the Republicans, but then that would mean they would have to grow a real populist agenda and not just be the other corporate party.

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PostApr 10, 2020#866

Trump is owned by Koch which makes me doubt that there will be much transportation money coming towards transit projects

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PostApr 11, 2020#867

I'm sure this was answered before but was the North-South alignment ever considered for Grand? I honestly think that a line would work well on Grand running from near Carondelet Park up to the North Grand circle at the water tower. The only problem I see happening here is dealing with the sections of Grand where it gets narrow. The Grand bus line is the most used so maybe the idea isn't too crazy. At very least, a Grand BRT should be set up.

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PostApr 11, 2020#868

Unfortunately Grand is too narrow for the majority of it's route for a light rail esque transit system. Jefferson, Natural Bridge, and Florissant are just obscenely wide roads with plenty of room for stations and stretches of track completely segregated from the road.

Completely agree that Grand BRT should have been implemented yesterday. I also wouldn't mind to one day see a free streetcar circulator like KC with stops at:
  • Page and Grand shopping center
  • The VA
  • Grand Center
  • SLU Main Campus
  • Forest Park Parkway 
  • Grand Metrolink Station
  • Grand and Chouteau (SSM, Future Iron Hill a Steelcote District)
  • Grand and Park (Cardinal Glennon and SLU South Campus)
  • Grand and Shaw
  • Grand and Sidney
  • Grand and Arsenal 

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PostMay 23, 2020#869

Interesting article from the Times of Skinker DeBaliviere October 1983

"For the past four years, a proposal to provide a mass transportation system in St. Louis has been in the study and debate stages. At the end of this month, the EastWest Gateway Coordinating Council will release its report, the "Environmental Impact Statement" (EIS), and the time for action will have arrived. Most St. Louisans are no doubt aware of: (1) the desirability of having a viable mass transit system if St. Louis is to reach its full potential as a great city, (2) the relative cheapness of utilizing existing rail track instead of building a completely new subway-type system, and (3) our unique possession of an existing track/tunnel system, a built-in factor which gives St. Louis an edge in the competition among cities for federal transportation funding. Naturally, there has to be a snag in such a reasonable-sounding plan, and, naturally, it managed to occur right in the lap of Skinker-DeBaliviere: the so-called "Clayton Spur." The controversial spur, which we will detail later, does not in any substantive way affect the overall plan, which consists of these basics: — The train is not a streetcar; nor is it truly a "rapid" transit car. It is an eightyfoot-long vehicle hinged in the middle, resembling a large bus or modern train. In length, it is about twice as long as the current Bi-State bus. It runs on electricity from an overhead wiring system, requires 28-30 feet of right-of-way, and runs on rail track, at grade level, overhead or underground. — The planned route begins in East St. Louis, crosses the Mississippi on Eads Bridge, and goes underground through downtown, using an existing tunnel system that emerges near Eighth and Spruce. Another existing tunnel can be utilized to provide access to Union Station and a new Amtrak station. Stations being considered downtown are Laclede's Landing, St. Louis Centre, Old Post Office, Gateway Mall, Busch Stadium, 15th and Clark (the City Government Center), Union Station, 21st and Clark, a proposed new Amtrak terminal. After leaving downtown, the system runs west on existing rail right-of-way with probable stops at Grand, Kingshighway (Barnes Hospital Complex), DeBaliviere (at Forest Park Parkway), Delmar Station. Leaving the Delmar Station, it would cross and stop at Page (at Skinker, accessing University City's Cunningham Industrial Park, possibly for parking), St. Charles Rock Road, and UMSL. — New track would be necessary on Natural Bridge itself, going overhead at Hanley Road and stopping at 1-70, Laclede Business Park, Brown Road, at McDonnell Blvd. near the interchange of 1-170 and 1-70, on north to termination at Lambert Airport. The light rail system as proposed clearly does not replace the current bus system, j although it could be linked with it at several important points. For example, riders from south city could join at Grand, at Barnes on Kingshigh way, and at DeBaliviere, via the Hampton line. South and West County residents would be accessed by the linking highways, 1-70, 1-170 (the Inner Belt), and Highway 40. The overall system, depending as it does chiefly on existing rail track, does, however, leave out the core of St. Louis County government -- and employment — in Clayton. This omission explains the roots of the current controversy, the "Clayton Spur." As the name suggests, the "Clayton Spur" is a separate track branching off from the through system, in order to link Clayton to the system. The desirability of the spur depends on the assumption that a high percentage of riders will need to get to or from Clayton, to work or for governmental needs. Other high employment centers, such as downtown, McDonnell Douglas, and the airport are covered under the plan. The problems begin at the point where the Norfolk and Western tracks start northwest at DeBaliviere. After this point, new track is necessary to lead to Clayton. The alternatives which have been recently suggested and proposed are as follows: — Alternative 1: This one puts new track on Millbrook/Forest Park all the way to Pershing and Hanley, going south to Central Ave. via a tunnel, ending at Forsyth and Central (County Government Cen ter). — Alternative 2: This is basically the same, except the tunnel is longer, beginning right at Pershing and Millbrook. Both of these alternatives would, of course, require extensive tunnel construction and would require the use of Millbrook west of Skinker in some manner. The important question is: Is there room for these new tracks in the existing rightof-way, or would it be necessary for homes to be demolished? This is, without doubt, the crucial question for Parkview residents on Pershing Avenue — and affects the owners of homes and apartment houses on Pershing east of Skinker as well. The answer, according to Rosemary Covington, spokesperson for the East-West Gateway Coordinating Council, is that there is ample room in the current right-of-way, that "at least five feet between the system and currently existing fences" will be possible. She says, further, that "no houses will be demolished under any of the alternatives." —Alternative 3: Follows Forest Park Parkway all the way to Central Ave., but would be elevated on concrete piers west of Pershing along the Parkway onto Central Ave. Note that the elevated section is over the Parkway proper, and there is no suggestion of elevated trains within the residential parts of our area. —Alternative 4: Follows Delmar from the Wabash Station, south on Melville (the old streetcar line) to Millbrook. The section from Millbrook and Pershing into the Central Avenue station would be elevated. — Alternative 5: West on Delmar to Hanley, south on Hanley to end at Forsyth, all at grade. Another question: How will the train cross Skinker? The answer: again, according to Covington, the system will cross Skinker at grade, with the traffic signals — whether at Forest Park Parkway or at Delmar. One should not write of the proposed alternatives without mentioning that there is organized and vocal opposition, which has already forced some changes in the alternatives being debated. The group is called "Neighborhoods United Against the University City-Clayton Light Rail Spur, Inc.," consisting of 11 neighborhood groups. Closer to home, the Parkview Agents passed a resolution in July stating that the spur "would create safety, visual, noise, parking and accessibility problems damaging to the environment of the neighborhood." One suggested compromise is an improved bus service for the Clayton-U. City area, connecting to a light rail system at the Wabash Station. The Skinker-DeBaliviere Community Council will take up the issue at its October meeting, Oct. 10, and persons desiring to express an opinion should contact their Council representative. The Council has been asked to join the debate and state the position of the neighborhood in this controversy. Whatever the outcome of the Clayton Spur question, and if light rail becomes a reality, Skinker-DeBaliviere will be serviced. What are the other alternatives East-West Gateway is considering? (1) A "busway" — at grade, separated, exclusive right-of-way along Forest Park Parkway, mixing with traffic downtown and along the Forsyth Bypass, and a single lane facility adjacent to the Inner Belt near Page, using the Inner Belt and Natural Bridge in mixed traffic to the airport. Existing transit service in East St. Louis and elsewhere in the city and county would be coordinated with the "busway." (2) A combination of light rail and "enhanced" bus service — an especially attractive alternative to the foes of the Clayton Spur, this would tie Clayton to the light rail system by shuttle bus. (3) Transportation system management — presumably, better and more extensive bus service. (4) No action. The various alternatives will be expound. ed upon and a choice of systems reported on when the EIS is released, at the end of October. Hopefully, by that time, individuals and neighborhood groups will have an opportunity to participate in the debate and move into the next century with a mass transit system acceptable to a constituency which prides itself on being adaptive, urban, and intelligent — and strong-minded. 

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PostJun 21, 2020#870

Interesting video on history of MetroLink


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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PostJun 21, 2020#871

Nice! Thanks for that. :)

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PostJun 21, 2020#872

^ Interesting, though quite a few errors lol.

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PostJun 22, 2020#873

Small yikes when he suggested that Metrolink should be extended to Fenton, Florissant, Arnold, Chesterfield, and St. Peters
Screen Shot 2020-06-22 at 9.36.49 AM.png (3.77MiB)

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PostJun 22, 2020#874

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:
Jun 22, 2020
Small yikes when he suggested that Metrolink should be extended to Fenton, Florissant, Arnold, Chesterfield, and St. Peters
Honestly, I don't think it's a bad idea. It would hit a lot of dense neighborhoods on the way out there. 

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PostJun 22, 2020#875

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:
Jun 22, 2020
Small yikes when he suggested that Metrolink should be extended to Fenton, Florissant, Arnold, Chesterfield, and St. Peters
That highlights an overarching contradiction of the video. He's critical of how much track goes through St. Clair County, but questions why it doesn't run to St. Charles and Jefferson Counties. 

It's clear from the video that he's not very familiar with the St. Louis area. I appreciate his interest, but this is armchair analysis, with a heavy reliance on Wikipedia and glances at Google Maps.

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