urbanSTL

arch city wrote: My restaurant choices would be one or more of the following fast-casual, casual-dining or entertainment-dining chains:

-Cini: Italian Chow (St. Louis-based with a 2nd location opening in Ladue)
-Chili's (If a mini-location can survive at Lambert, why couldn't a larger one survive downtown)
-Cheddar's (similar to Chili's, great food)
-House of Blues (especially in light of the forthcoming National Blues Museum). Eat then attend a concert.

Crushed Red, Five Star Burgers and Crazy Bowls & Wraps would probably be good additions to that list. All local.

I agree, gentlemen. I haven't taken the kids to Field House yet, but I've been there several times and it's become a favorite of mine. My son already wants to go to SLU, so I really ought to introduce him to this place!

There seems to be a lot of talk on this forum about City Target. Have there been rumors that Target is looking for another STL City location, or is this just wishful thinking? That said, the Railway Exchange building would be a dynamite location for one.

Anglophile wrote:There seems to be a lot of talk on this forum about City Target. Have there been rumors that Target is looking for another STL City location, or is this just wishful thinking? That said, the Railway Exchange building would be a dynamite location for one.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/column ... f6878.html

and

http://nextstl.com/what-should-be/what- ... -buildling

Yeah I agree that House of Blues in the core downtown would be a good addition, especially with the National Blues Museum opening at 6th and Washington next year.

Tourists who visit the museum and stay downtown will have somewhere to walk to for live music, and I imagine most of them will still visit the bars of the "Broadway Blues Triangle".

roger wyoming II wrote:

threeonefour wrote:I second the requests for Buffalo Wild Wings and House of Blues...

I'd love to have one of these downtown instead of driving to South County, Kirkwood, or O'Fallon/Shiloh.

I really think House of Blues would be a great addition to downtown and likely wouldn't hurt the Broadway bars too much. As for Bw3, I see you didn't mention the S. Hanley location. One was to go in the Kingshighway/Chippewa development a few years back, but was pulled apparantly at the last minute. They even had a sign briefly up.

I forgot about the Hanley BW3 location. Unless I'm going to the Galleria or I'm heading to/from Wash U or Clayton, I try to avoid that area when I can find the majority of things I want and need more conveniently to the south or southwest.

As for House of Blues, I agree. I think it would do well without cannibalizing the Broadway bars. A location adjacent to the National Blues Museum would be an obvious choice, it would fill some space in or around Mercantile Exchange, and it might encourage additional development in the area as well.

Actually, even though it'd be closer to the Broadway bars, I think Ballpark Village would really be a natural spot for this concept. It would actually make more sense than the PBR bar, but clearly, Cardinals owners are playing to the rest of Cardinals Nation outside St. Louis and its immediate surroundings with that choice.

(And for the record, I'm okay with the PBR-themed place. Just don't expect to see me there.)

threeonefour wrote:Actually, even though it'd be closer to the Broadway bars, I think Ballpark Village would really be a natural spot for this concept. It would actually make more sense than the PBR bar, but clearly, Cardinals owners are playing to the rest of Cardinals Nation outside St. Louis and its immediate surroundings with that choice.

(And for the record, I'm okay with the PBR-themed place. Just don't expect to see me there.)

I think it was all Cordish's decision on PBR. I don't think the Cards owners cared too much about it.

stlien wrote:

threeonefour wrote:Actually, even though it'd be closer to the Broadway bars, I think Ballpark Village would really be a natural spot for this concept. It would actually make more sense than the PBR bar, but clearly, Cardinals owners are playing to the rest of Cardinals Nation outside St. Louis and its immediate surroundings with that choice.

(And for the record, I'm okay with the PBR-themed place. Just don't expect to see me there.)

I think it was all Cordish's decision on PBR. I don't think the Cards owners cared too much about it.

Probably so. But one of the biggest mistakes the Cardinals owners made was to stick with Cordish in my opinion.

Back to Macy's, it was quite busy today. But they're already eliminating merchandise on the third level. I'll be back to see if there's anything left that's worth buying, but I think today was my personal 'goodbye'.

I expect it'll be nothing but a junk store soon, with the good merchandise shipped off to the 'burbs, 10% or 20% off everything else, and "ZOMG! STORE CLOSING! BIG SALE! ALL SALES FINAL! signs everywhere you look.

kbshapiro wrote:Give me your Top 5-7 retailers that you think would succeed downtown and I'll call them this week to gauge their interest.

How did this go?

It's not my place to announce anything so I will let the developer announce it when they're ready but there's potentially a retail development on the way NEAR downtown that a lot of the retailers requested are looking at. Dollar stores continue to look for options downtown. Waiting on some feedback from several others.

Alex Ihnen wrote:An aside: I know a little about Gordon Bros and they were admired/become notorious with their strategy liquidating Circuit City. The first thing they did was put up big signs, get a lot of press and then raise prices. Yep, it worked. They also handled Linens & Things (and many others, I'm sure).

Exactly. Which means it'll probably be pointless to shop the Macy's Downtown liquidation sale unless you really want to see the store one last time.

I could be wrong, but I expect the liquidators will raise prices back to MSRP and start taking off in 10% increments from there. Woo-hoo.

On UrbanReviewSTL.com, there's a quote from a Target representative that says the company does not have plans to expand the CityTarget concept in 2014, as they plan to analyze the trends in existing stores as well as others that are scheduled to open this year. I can't speak for the Railway Exchange owners (who obviously want to maximize their ROI ASAP), but personally, I'd rather wait a few years to land a quality tenant like CityTarget than to settle for retailers that might be a good fit for downtown but not the former Famous-Barr/Macy's space per se. Five years passed between the closing of Carson's on State Street in Chicago and the debut of CityTarget in the same space. I believe CityTarget is worth the wait.

Also, I think it should be the top priority for that space because I believe it would easily generate more sales per square foot than Macy's, and it would be better suited to cater to downtown workers/residents/visitors than Macy's ever was anyway. As I've said in this thread so many times, Macy's could've done more to make this store a success, but it never bothered.

I believe it would easily generate more sales per square foot than Macy's

That would be hard NOT to do.

kbshapiro wrote:It's not my place to announce anything so I will let the developer announce it when they're ready but there's potentially a retail development on the way NEAR downtown that a lot of the retailers requested are looking at. Dollar stores continue to look for options downtown. Waiting on some feedback from several others.

Will this be an urban mixed-use development or a strip mall with huge parking lots in front? Are we talking south of downtown or in McKee's planning area? Have any retailers expressed interest in being part of a TOD downtown?

As for location...Alex is hotter. Goat is off.

As for timing Alex, I'd say a 2014 store opening at this point in time would be very hard to pull off regardless of Target's plans to roll out the City concept. So, 2015 or later makes sense anyways. Or any other retailer.

If this gets pulled off along with any other mythical large retail projects west of downtown, the dream of downtown national retail is even harder to imagine in the near future. Probably continue to be restaurant, bar, night club, hotel, etc type market.

^ Why?

I dont like a Target in Railway Exchange either. Makes much more sense in Mercantile Exchange building especially with visibility on Broadway.

mattonarsenal wrote:

I believe it would easily generate more sales per square foot than Macy's

That would be hard NOT to do.

I should've put more emphasis on the word "easily". My point is that some might think Target or other major retailers might be scared off by anemic sales at Macy's Downtown. That was my thought at first. But the more I thought about it, Macy's set the bar really low as it never offered the variety of merchandise found in its suburban stores, and it took away the biggest draws for business, i.e., the restaurants. So I think there's a chance major retailers would see a golden opportunity here where Macy's just saw a loss leader that they couldn't unload fast enough. Macy's has closed other downtown stores recently in St. Paul and Houston, and based on reviews and articles I read of downtown stores elsewhere, I got the impression they are probably going to shed more downtown stores in the coming years except in the handful of cities with dense residential and workforce populations like the Manhattan flagship, San Francisco, Boston, and Chicago.

kbshapiro wrote:If this gets pulled off along with any other mythical large retail projects west of downtown, the dream of downtown national retail is even harder to imagine in the near future. Probably continue to be restaurant, bar, night club, hotel, etc type market.

As much as I want the city to focus on attracting another anchor to the Railway Exchange (even if it's only the first floor) and concentrating the majority of retail along Olive, Sixth, and Seventh streets as it used to be, I am afraid the scenario you describe is more likely and that major retailers will wind up in Midtown or at the edge of downtown instead. And downtown retail may be doomed for years to come.

What do we want downtown to be exactly? I don't think downtown's success depends on national retailers like Macy's any more than it depends on an arts/entertainment district anchored by one venue (Sorry, Ed Goltermann). However, I think city and organizational leaders seem a bit too content with downtown being the region's entertainment center and they don't have a vision beyond that in my opinion. As long as there are sports, casinos, festivals, and parades, that's just fine by them. And now there are a lot of places to eat, and some of them actually stay open on evenings and weekends, too. But why does downtown retail seem like such an afterthought? If a true mixed-use environment is what we're after, and we want residential and business growth to be sustainable, shouldn't there be more of an effort to attract retailers to the core?

I might be going against the grain here, but I still think Target, Old Navy, etc. could be successful downtown, and I'd rather see those vast swaths of land in Midtown or at the edge of downtown devoted to large-scale big boxes like IKEA or Costco. Getting retailers into downtown is only half of the game, though. Creating an environment in which they want to locate is another. If the streetcar on Olive becomes reality, and if infrastructure is improved along Olive, Locust, Sixth, and Seventh streets, that would make the area much more attractive for investment. And commonsense changes such as restoring two-way traffic to some of these streets would do some good as well. But is there enough common sense among our leaders?

The loss of a Macy's in Downtown Houston was apparently a wake-up call. But when it comes to downtown retail, it seems like St. Louis leaders are in a deep sleep.