urbanSTL

No prob. I completely agree with you, downtown should (and hopefully someday will) be a place where everyone can find what they're looking for. And honestly, I'm no food critic, so I'm probably not one to speak.

roger wyoming II wrote:^ hmmm.... succinct, mini rant? maybe I'll try for haiku for my next time!

Cici's in Downtown?
Not another discount chain!
City Target, please.

-RBB

Potential plan to convert the Railway Exchange into a data center.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog ... 1371835847

FrankRider wrote:Potential plan to convert the Railway Exchange into a data center.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog ... 1371835847

Data centers = not a lot employees. Not a good downtown use in my opinion.

south compton wrote:

FrankRider wrote:Potential plan to convert the Railway Exchange into a data center.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog ... 1371835847

Data centers = not a lot employees. Not a good downtown use in my opinion.

For reference Microsoft's new $700 million data center in Iowa (twice this size) is expected to employ "at least 24."

The thing that bothers me most about this is that they're proposing using the first 10 stories for the data center...surely this isn't the best use of the street level of this building? If they kept the first couple of floors for retail I'd feel much better about the proposal.

dmmonty1 wrote:The thing that bothers me most about this is that they're proposing using the first 10 stories for the data center...surely this isn't the best use of the street level of this building? If they kept the first couple of floors for retail I'd feel much better about the proposal.

I would have to agree and believe this an ideal location for a City Target.

As far as the next eight floors, this proposal would make use of a big block of underutilized downtown space, help lease rates from continuing to fall and build upon St. Louis continuing strength in IT/Data.

I also don't see why you still couldn't develop the upper floors or why such space would be undesireable because you have a data center on floor 2 or 3 to floor 8. Actually, I think you got a pretty good selling poing for T-Rex and startups. Market the upper floors of being above the cloud.

dredger wrote:

dmmonty1 wrote:The thing that bothers me most about this is that they're proposing using the first 10 stories for the data center...surely this isn't the best use of the street level of this building? If they kept the first couple of floors for retail I'd feel much better about the proposal.

I would have to agree and believe this an ideal location for a City Target.

As far as the next eight floors, this proposal would make use of a big block of underutilized downtown space, help lease rates from continuing to fall and build upon St. Louis continuing strength in IT/Data.

I also don't see why you still couldn't develop the upper floors or why such space would be undesirable because you have a data center on floor 2 or 3 to floor 8. Actually, I think you got a pretty good selling poing for T-Rex and startups. Market the upper floors of being above the cloud.

I am severely disappointed about this news, and I really hope these plans don't go through. I cannot believe that the developer would seriously entertain any idea that didn't incorporate retail into the first floor space.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!?!

I am not opposed to the idea of a data center per se, but it doesn't seem like the best and highest use of this building. It seems more appropriate for some soulless wasteland like Earth City than the heart of downtown St. Louis in my opinion. It would stabilize lease and vacancy rates, which would be a plus. However, since there would be relatively few employees, I fear that the city block surrounding Railway Exchange would be no more lively with a data center as the building's main tenant than it would if the vast majority of the building remains vacant for the foreseeable future.

To me it seems like giving up- any tenant is better than no tenants at all. I still believe CityTarget is the ideal tenant and the developer/city should aggressively pursue them even if they aren't immediately willing to commit to the space. Beyond the first and/or second levels, I'd like to see office space with the hope of getting the type of density that the upper floors once had when May Company headquarters was there. Finally, I'd also like to see residences on the uppermost floors. I spent some time on the upper floors when my grandmother worked for May Company, so I can attest that some of the best views in downtown are from that building. There are some limitations, as the upper floors have low ceilings, but I still think desirable residences could be created from the former May Company headquarters space on the upper floors.

This building is a monolith- it rises 21 stories and covers a whole city block. Even without a traditional department store as the anchor, this building has so much potential to bring life to this part of downtown. But retail on the ground floor- whether it's CityTarget or subdivided space- is crucial to the success of the whole area. And I believe a mix of commercial and residential on upper floors would drive the density that is needed to attract ground floor tenant(s) not just in the Railway Exchange, but also throughout the Mercantile Exchange area.

rawest1 wrote:I think we're all in agreement that we all want some kind of retail going in on the first floor or two of the building. The questions are 1) Do any retail stores want to go in on the first two floors of the building? and 2) If there doesn't seem to be enough interest right now, then how long is it worth keeping the building vacant holding out hope that some retail entity will change their minds and decide to set up shop there?

Alex Ihnen wrote:^ How long? For the community, an indefinite length of time. The data center on the first two floors would mean they are vacant for all intents and purposes to the public.

To get a tenant worthy of the space, I'm willing to be patient. Five years passed between the closing of Carson's on State Street in Chicago and the debut of CityTarget in the same space. I would hope it wouldn't take that long to fill the space, whether it's CityTarget, another major retailer, or several retailers in a subdivided space, but I'd rather wait than to have nothing but servers taking up what should be one of downtown's most desirable locations for retail. That would doom a whole city block to lifelessness for years, and it isn't like the area around Macy's is exactly full of life at the moment anyway despite progress on nearby blocks in recent years.

And I'd still like to see a company or companies with more employees than a data center occupying the middle floors. I realize beggars can't be choosers, but I also hope the developer will be patient enough to consider the best and highest use of that building. There's no reason why there can't be literally over a thousand people in that building at any given time- shopping, dining, working, AND living.

Obviously the developer wants as quick of a turnaround as possible since the building's last major tenant is on its way out (leaving behind three floors of retail space, two floors of office space, and five vacant retail levels in between). I just hope the developer realizes the potential of the building and doesn't squander it just to fill up space. I get that supply/demand are an issue, (i.e., is there demand for office space and two floors of retail space?). And this is where I wish the city and organizations representing downtown would get a little more aggressive to attract businesses and jobs downtown. We're finally getting some good news about employment in our area, and it'd be nice if we'd see some of that momentum downtown, especially since the absence of job growth is one of the reasons we're losing Macy's in the first place.

Alex Ihnen wrote:"Above the Cloud" - that's awesome. And clearly first floor+ should never be allowed to be filled with servers.

Those servers are going to give off a tremendous amount of heat. I'm not sure working "above the cloud" will be as pleasant as it sounds.

Given its proximity to the convention center, I'd love to see a hotel occupy a portion of the building.

south compton wrote:

Alex Ihnen wrote:"Above the Cloud" - that's awesome. And clearly first floor+ should never be allowed to be filled with servers.

Those servers are going to give off a tremendous amount of heat. I'm not sure working "above the cloud" will be as pleasant as it sounds.

Given its proximity to the convention center, I'd love to see a hotel occupy a portion of the building.

I agree. This building is so big, you could have residences, offices, a hotel, and a substantial retail tenant like CityTarget. Badabing-badaboom! I just hope the developer recognizes the potential.

Alex Ihnen wrote:Completely unconvinced that filling the first couple floors with serves that employ very few people and present a dead street wall is a good idea in any way. Put servers on 3-whatever if you want (still a really bad urban use).

First Floor Retail + 2nd to 8th Floor Data Center + plus upper floor development (residential/hotel/office) = Great compromise for a huge amount of space in a depressed market that truly has to much office space to fill. Lets not forget that downtown office market that has a half filled Met which could easily have a competing ATT Center coming into play and depressing it even more. That is the reality that I believe needs to be embraced. Data center on the 2nd to 8th floors is creative, a demand available, and improves the market.

Put it bluntly, getting any space developed and leased from the 2nd floor up on the Railway Exchange and Jefferson Arms would be huge for the downtown market. Waiting for ideal tenants is really not a reasonable solution for downtown to continue its momentum let alone having any hope of infill/new construction outside of a selective residential tower.

dredger wrote:

Alex Ihnen wrote:Completely unconvinced that filling the first couple floors with serves that employ very few people and present a dead street wall is a good idea in any way. Put servers on 3-whatever if you want (still a really bad urban use).

First Floor Retail + 2nd to 8th Floor Data Center + plus upper floor development (residential/hotel/office) = Great compromise for a huge amount of space in a depressed market that truly has to much office space to fill. Lets not forget that downtown office market that has a half filled Met which could easily have a competing ATT Center coming into play and depressing it even more. That is the reality that I believe needs to be embraced. Data center on the 2nd to 8th floors is creative, a demand available, and improves the market.

Put it bluntly, getting any space developed and leased from the 2nd floor up on the Railway Exchange and Jefferson Arms would be huge for the downtown market. Waiting for ideal tenants is really not a reasonable solution for downtown to continue its momentum let alone having any hope of infill/new construction outside of a selective residential tower.

Met is more than half full. Listed at 80% occupancy.

Alex Ihnen wrote:^ It's not really about waiting for "ideal tenants", but rather avoiding doing something that precludes better tenants in the near-ish future.

Fair enough, but what tenants can you reasonable assume in the nearish future?

Data centers expanding downtown have been one of the bright spots. To start precluding ideal space market space to clients that have grown square footage leases seems insane and uncompetitive to me in a region let alone a very competitive nation. Tell that to the developers and financers that actually have put a stake in downtown St. louis.

I think this is a good article on the scale of what is needed to fill space just to get under 10% occupancy rate

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/prin ... arket.html