But cement is not a local productldai_phs wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2025Concrete is very local product and somewhat of a steel replacement.JaneJacobsGhost wrote:That’s not how Tariffs work. Roughly 25% of steel is imported. If 25% of the domestic market has to raise prices to keep its margins, its competitors will do the same so long as they remain cheaper. Complimentary products will likely also see their prices rise like concrete.
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Concrete and its inputs are generally very local. Missouri is a bigger producer and US is ~10% imports. One of the easier ones to scale production of locally. I agree that tariffs will cause prices to rise and make more projects harder to pencil.JaneJacobsGhost wrote:But cement is not a local productldai_phs wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2025Concrete is very local product and somewhat of a steel replacement.JaneJacobsGhost wrote:That’s not how Tariffs work. Roughly 25% of steel is imported. If 25% of the domestic market has to raise prices to keep its margins, its competitors will do the same so long as they remain cheaper. Complimentary products will likely also see their prices rise like concrete.
IIRC the cement plant down by Ste. Genevieve is the largest one in America. I could be wrong but I thought it passed the largest one that used to be up on the Great Lakes somewhere.
I wouldn't be too worried. They knew what regime was coming in when they decided to move forward. They knew tariffs were potentially coming.
I haven't looked at how they structured it or if they even released the info but they could be targeting specific steel products like sheets or whatever. The bold part is why I said maybe they won't go up as much. Last time he used it for bargaining so we'll see how it goes.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2025That’s not how Tariffs work. Roughly 25% of steel is imported. If 25% of the domestic market has to raise prices to keep its margins, its competitors will do the same so long as they remain cheaper. Complimentary products will likely also see their prices rise like concrete.
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Trump described it as a blanket tariff on all steel and aluminum imports yesterday. Sure, maybe the people in his cabinet who have some sense will convince him to walk it back.flipz wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2025I haven't looked at how they structured it or if they even released the info but they could be targeting specific steel products like sheets or whatever. The bold part is why I said maybe they won't go up as much. Last time he used it for bargaining so we'll see how it goes.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2025That’s not how Tariffs work. Roughly 25% of steel is imported. If 25% of the domestic market has to raise prices to keep its margins, its competitors will do the same so long as they remain cheaper. Complimentary products will likely also see their prices rise like concrete.
What's the typical timeline with regard to securing contracts for materials like this in a project of this scope? Or is there even one?
Not sure if this is a concrete or steel building. Steel is a long lead time and needs to have a lot of custom fabrication before hand with sone contractual agreement on price and up front money months in advance. If it is a concrete building it will have rebar which is much more plentiful and is stock according to size. It is usually fabbed (bent and tied) in field save for a couple of custom elements in odd framing situations. That said, this build should already have materials committed at a pre-agreed price, though without looking at their contracts and agreements its impossible to know.pdm_ad wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2025What's the typical timeline with regard to securing contracts for materials like this in a project of this scope? Or is there even one?
This is almost assuredly a reinforced/post tensioned concrete structure. So lots of rebar and cable, but probably minimal structural steel.beer city wrote: ↑Feb 11, 2025What's the typical timeline with regard to securing contracts for materials like this in a project of this scope? Or is there even one?
Not sure if this is a concrete or steel building.
$0 Zoning-only building permit application submitted. Will this finally happen?
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If coming 2026 means they’ll start construction in 2026 then yes. But this won’t open in 2026. 2028 at best case
It's on the preliminary agenda of the April 28 Preservation Board meeting.
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... 2025-3.pdf
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... 2025-3.pdf
Interesting choice to market it as coming to "St. Louis' West End," I wonder who the Koplars got to do marketing for them. I'd say the Central West End is one of the most well known city neighborhoods in the metro area, and of course we urbanists know that the 'West End' is an entirely different neighborhood.Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2025It'll happen this time around.
Property website: https://albionwestend.com/
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^We don't actually all agree about that. Just for the record.
Symphonicpoet do tell, I didn’t think there was any ambiguity between the CWE and West End but willing to learn
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The West End is an official neighborhood bound by Delmar, Page, Belt, Union, and the city county boundary.
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Koplars aren't marketing this. It's Albion residential.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2025Interesting choice to market it as coming to "St. Louis' West End," I wonder who the Koplars got to do marketing for them. I'd say the Central West End is one of the most well known city neighborhoods in the metro area, and of course we urbanists know that the 'West End' is an entirely different neighborhood.Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2025It'll happen this time around.
Property website: https://albionwestend.com/
We know there are two "West Ends" but for some outside marketing agency, they just see the name "Albion West End" and roll with it.
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My mom grew up in NSTL and Skinky-D. She said back in the 50s/60s, they often referred to everything above FPP and below Page west of Vandy (sans actual defined boundaries) as the "west end" of the city. Most commonly though, you'd just say whatever parish something was closest to, even if you weren't catholic. Not that that's at play here of course...
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At least a few of us regard the idea of "official" neighborhoods as slightly humorous. Neighborhoods are organic things that grow up from common usage. The younger set, particularly the younger urbanist set, is more likely to use the "official" definitions since that's where they learned their neighborhoods. To them, the Fox is in Covenant Blue-Grand Center and SLU is in Midtown. Those of us who grew up here are, at least in my anecdotal experience, more likely to use terms more loosely, recognizing a much smaller number of neighborhoods, and playing a bit loosey-goosey with the names. To us, both the Fox and SLU are in Midtown, and Grand Center is a development organization that owns some property there.tztag wrote: ↑Apr 20, 2025Symphonicpoet do tell, I didn’t think there was any ambiguity between the CWE and West End but willing to learn
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The official neighborhood list of 79 was by all appearances arbitrarily assembled by a small group of people some years back. It means no more than the previous list of 27 official neighborhoods. Honestly, those of us who grew up in the city before lists like this started making their way around the internet (or before the internet for that matter) typically referred to our specific homes by nearby major intersections or landmarks. Only a few neighborhoods had names anyone would much have known. The West End and Central West End have, at least for my lifetime, been recognizable, but they were at least a little interchangeable.
For one example, allow me to quote George McCue and Frank Peters in their 1989 Guide to the Architecture of St. Louis "'West End' is an old name for a district of indefinite boundaries. It is usually taken to include the costly houses built along private streets on the north flank of Forest Park. East of the park the West End spreads out for several blocks on each side of Lindell Blvd., about as far as Newstead Ave. A rule-of-thumb boundary on the north is Delmar Blvd."
Here's another, from 1999's St. Louis: A Concise History by William Barnaby Faherty, S. J. assisted by NiNi Harris: "St. Louis had always had distinctive communities on the north and south side from the city's earliest days. After the drainage of Chouteau Pond in the early 1850s, development spread west, and a third section grew up, the 'West End.'"
Mind you, I in no way wish to claim Central West End is improper. It's a name of longstanding. Use it. It's not confusing. It's fine. I even like it. But make no mistake, the the term "West End" has also been used to describe that area and an ambiguous haze of surrounding streets seeping well beyond the current official boundaries in historic use. If I had to guess, the "Central" in "Central West End" arose because it was the commercial center of the larger collection of areas. None of this is terribly important. The "official" list of neighborhoods has no real application so far as I know. It's not a list of wards, past or present. It doesn't necessarily overlap with historic district boundaries, preservation districts, or anything with any actual legal standing. So far as I know, it's just a curiosity that the city has adopted and revised at least once. I expect it's popular here in large part because Mark Groth was (and likely still is) a big proponent of its use. I have a great deal of respect for what he's done. I'm also not terribly likely to study it to determine what I should call a place where I've spent the majority of my life.
The official map is nice. It's useful in its way. But it's relatively young, quite arbitrary, and isn't necessarily a perfect reflection of historical use. Names and boundaries both change. And some of us are old and crabby.
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Whenever I tell Boomers that I live in Kingshighway Hills or North Hampton, they give me a confused look. Then I mention Southtown, and they know exactly where I live.
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