Whats been the issue with that? The intial renderings of Ballpark Village looked amazing...with towers..high rises..shopping etcarch city wrote:It's a good looking building. Looks like LED lighting will crown the building.
However, I'm willing to bet the design might change again. St. Louis' changed multiple times before it was actually constructed.
Nonetheless, it - along with the One Light residential towers - should be pretty transformative for the downtown Kansas City skyline.
Ballpark Village has to get on the ball.
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^ Largely due to the fact that Saint Louis City govt. is more stingy with development incentives than KC.... Cordish doesn't seem to take on much risk and rumors are they are extremely hard to work with on the office side, with several potential tenants deciding to walk away. Cordish/Cards have a TIF for Ballpark Village but no direct backing of the bonds from the City like Power & Light has or direct grants like many KC projects. You guys also give out an extraordinary long period for tax abatement.
I generally am of the opinion that STL should prime the subsidy pump a bit more than it has to spur more downtown redevelopment for the next few years before dialing back again.
I generally am of the opinion that STL should prime the subsidy pump a bit more than it has to spur more downtown redevelopment for the next few years before dialing back again.
KC has landed the back operations of two San Fran based law firms.... totaling about 375 employees.
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... en-kc.html
Both will be going into the same Crown Center office building. Back office is an area that I hope we can also get some gains on.
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... en-kc.html
Both will be going into the same Crown Center office building. Back office is an area that I hope we can also get some gains on.
Ok, what's the percentage of this convention hotel happening? According to what we've seen thus far?
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I wonder what it says about the state of St. Louis that everytime I log onto this forum these days, the most recently active topic is one called "Good job KC!"
It says that you don't log on enough. #ByeGreatest St. Louis wrote:I wonder what it says about the state of St. Louis that everytime I log onto this forum these days, the most recently active topic is one called "Good job KC!"
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Kansas City is definitely in the middle of an exciting construction boom, whether you're talking about downtown, Westport, the Plaza, and beyond. It's great.
At this present moment in time, I do believe Kansas City has a stronger trajectory than St. Louis, but I also believe KC has a bit of catching up to do.
I want to see St. Louis have the same construction boom that Kansas City is. I want to see mid-rises and high-rises fill the skies of both cities. Nothing would make me happier.
Like I was saying in another thread, I absolutely love St. Louis. I think it's great.
My great grandfather moved from Sicily to St. Louis in 1906 and made it his home until his death in 1967. My father and uncles were raised in north city St. Louis. The majority of my family remains there, even if my father did move away for a great job in Kansas City in the early 1980s.
St. Louis has been good to my family.
I remember the joy I'd have when my dad would tell us we were going to St. Louis, that I'd get to go and see the zoo or catch a Cardinals game or eat somewhere on The Hill.
St. Louis is the only city I would happily leave Kansas City for. I see the city in a bright light. But for me to do that, I'd like to see St. Louis begin to grow again as a region, and of course I'd want to be offered a nice position.
I believe St. Louis needs more people like me. Kansas City does too.
If it were to happen, if St. Louis were to ever pull me from Kansas City, I'd live within the city boundaries, pay the 1% tax (like I already do over here in KCMO), and do my very best to be a positive force for the city (like I also already do over here in KCMO).
Until then, I'll spend some tourism dollars in St. Louis. I'm going there this coming weekend and I plan to go there about four or five more times this summer. Despite growing up in KC, my father successfully raised me as a Cardinals fan.
At this present moment in time, I do believe Kansas City has a stronger trajectory than St. Louis, but I also believe KC has a bit of catching up to do.
I want to see St. Louis have the same construction boom that Kansas City is. I want to see mid-rises and high-rises fill the skies of both cities. Nothing would make me happier.
Like I was saying in another thread, I absolutely love St. Louis. I think it's great.
My great grandfather moved from Sicily to St. Louis in 1906 and made it his home until his death in 1967. My father and uncles were raised in north city St. Louis. The majority of my family remains there, even if my father did move away for a great job in Kansas City in the early 1980s.
St. Louis has been good to my family.
I remember the joy I'd have when my dad would tell us we were going to St. Louis, that I'd get to go and see the zoo or catch a Cardinals game or eat somewhere on The Hill.
St. Louis is the only city I would happily leave Kansas City for. I see the city in a bright light. But for me to do that, I'd like to see St. Louis begin to grow again as a region, and of course I'd want to be offered a nice position.
I believe St. Louis needs more people like me. Kansas City does too.
If it were to happen, if St. Louis were to ever pull me from Kansas City, I'd live within the city boundaries, pay the 1% tax (like I already do over here in KCMO), and do my very best to be a positive force for the city (like I also already do over here in KCMO).
Until then, I'll spend some tourism dollars in St. Louis. I'm going there this coming weekend and I plan to go there about four or five more times this summer. Despite growing up in KC, my father successfully raised me as a Cardinals fan.
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KC has a 1% earnings tax? Does it work the same way as it does in St. Louis?KansasCitian wrote: If it were to happen, if St. Louis were to ever pull me from Kansas City, I'd live within the city boundaries, pay the 1% tax (like I already do over here in KCMO), and do my very best to be a positive force for the city (like I also already do over here in KCMO).
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Yes, Kansas City has the same earnings tax that St. Louis does. It works the same way, as far as I know. My dad has always told me that they're the same.Mound City wrote:KC has a 1% earnings tax? Does it work the same way as it does in St. Louis?KansasCitian wrote: If it were to happen, if St. Louis were to ever pull me from Kansas City, I'd live within the city boundaries, pay the 1% tax (like I already do over here in KCMO), and do my very best to be a positive force for the city (like I also already do over here in KCMO).
Some people here in KC avoid it like the plague, which I find pathetic and dumb. You have to pay the 1% if you work or live in the city. So you could earn your money in Overland Park, Kansas, but if you live in Kansas City, Missouri, you still have to pay the tax.
I'm not a fan of the earnings tax, but I don't mind it, either.
I live and work in KCMO, though, so I'm definitely locked into paying the 1%, haha.
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KC definitely has some great things going on and your region is growing more quickly as a whole than ours, but I wouldn't discount what is going on in our Central Corridor.... we've got a huge amount of construction going on a few thousand residential units in the pipeline from the 170/64 area on down to downtown.... we'd have to add up the various proposals, but I wouldn't be surprised if we have more than what you have from River Market down to the Plaza. A big difference though is that most of the market rate, luxury projects are not in our downtown but rather in the Central West End/Clayton area.... downtown is yet to be where the big money action is.KansasCitian wrote:Kansas City is definitely in the middle of an exciting construction boom, whether you're talking about downtown, Westport, the Plaza, and beyond. It's great.
At this present moment in time, I do believe Kansas City has a stronger trajectory than St. Louis, but I also believe KC has a bit of catching up to do.
I want to see St. Louis have the same construction boom that Kansas City is. I want to see mid-rises and high-rises fill the skies of both cities. Nothing would make me happier.
Like I was saying in another thread, I absolutely love St. Louis. I think it's great...
Hey, two great cities in the state of Missouri. The difference would be the downtown areas development in comparison to the mid town developments...STL midtown developments are far greater than Kansas Cities, but Kansas Cities downtown development are greater than STLs. That I'm confused by...you would think the complete opposite of STL, having the Arch, riverfront, Busch, Convention Center and etc, you would think STL would get moving on the downtown front of things. Instead, CWE, Midtown and Clayton seems to be taking from downtown STL
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^ downtown STL saw billions in investments in the early part of the 2000's, its slowed down a bit now but there is still plenty of activity currently with the $115M Arcade Building reno, $380m Arch grounds re-do, $25M National Blues Museum project, Union Station $70-100M between the hotel reno and outside work (tho some dont consider that to be downtown, i do) im sure im missing some other projects happening now or on the horizon..
I'm sorry brother, but it seems as if the Rams might be toast on this one. They just don't get the support they should. As a Kansas Citian I enjoy the Gov cup.
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I don't think it's that the Rams don't get the support they should.
St. Louis supported the team when they were good. And they've done a relatively good job of supporting the team while they have sucked. And they've sucked for over 10 years now.
It's tough to support a losing franchise. Just ask Royals fans.
St. Louis supported the team when they were good. And they've done a relatively good job of supporting the team while they have sucked. And they've sucked for over 10 years now.
It's tough to support a losing franchise. Just ask Royals fans.
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I believe they sold out every game from 1995 to 2007 and 97% of tickets in total since 1995....even with a sh*tty product on the field the last 10 years.DawudKCMO wrote:I'm sorry brother, but it seems as if the Rams might be toast on this one. They just don't get the support they should. As a Kansas Citian I enjoy the Gov cup.
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Any support the Rams get is more support than they "should" get.
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Part of the relative imbalance is due to the strength of our Eds and Meds which has also unleashed the Cortex tech district; another key factor is the lack of job strength in the CBD. And entertainment districts like the Grove & Cherokee Street have eaten into Wash Ave and the Landing as entertainment districts. Back in the pre-recession 2000s, Washington Ave was the place to be and dominated the apartment market. Now, there seems to be more competition in the Central Corridor in a region with paltry growth. I think it will take more subsidies and/or more jobs to ratchet up the pace to pre-recession levels downtown.DawudKCMO wrote:Hey, two great cities in the state of Missouri. The difference would be the downtown areas development in comparison to the mid town developments...STL midtown developments are far greater than Kansas Cities, but Kansas Cities downtown development are greater than STLs. That I'm confused by...you would think the complete opposite of STL, having the Arch, riverfront, Busch, Convention Center and etc, you would think STL would get moving on the downtown front of things. Instead, CWE, Midtown and Clayton seems to be taking from downtown STL
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Don't forget about BPV, the single-biggest subsidized entertainment district that's eaten into WashAve's good times.roger wyoming II wrote:Part of the relative imbalance is due to the strength of our Eds and Meds which has also unleashed the Cortex tech district; another key factor is the lack of job strength in the CBD. And entertainment districts like the Grove & Cherokee Street have eaten into Wash Ave and the Landing as entertainment districts. Back in the pre-recession 2000s, Washington Ave was the place to be and dominated the apartment market. Now, there seems to be more competition in the Central Corridor in a region with paltry growth. I think it will take more subsidies and/or more jobs to ratchet up the pace to pre-recession levels downtown.DawudKCMO wrote:Hey, two great cities in the state of Missouri. The difference would be the downtown areas development in comparison to the mid town developments...STL midtown developments are far greater than Kansas Cities, but Kansas Cities downtown development are greater than STLs. That I'm confused by...you would think the complete opposite of STL, having the Arch, riverfront, Busch, Convention Center and etc, you would think STL would get moving on the downtown front of things. Instead, CWE, Midtown and Clayton seems to be taking from downtown STL
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^^ true, but BPV has only been open for a year and I don't think has negatively impacted interest in downtown apartment living. It also is great to see WashAve and Locust strike back a bit with a slew of new restaurants opening.
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I would think there would be more interest in living in downtown St. Louis with Ballpark Village.
Truly, I believe St. Louis and the Cardinals are missing out by not putting a condo or apartment tower (or both) on the east side of the development, behind what's currently there.
I feel like St. Louis could add a replica of the One Light tower being built in Kansas City (25-story building) and have the thing fully leased before they even break ground. I also think they'd have some success with condo towers.
I think they could go even taller. Heck, as far as I'm concerned, they should block off the Hilton's view.
Maybe they're holding off until the St. Louis economy improves. I don't know. But it'd be nice to see towers added to the south side of downtown, which has a gap tooth problem.
I know DeWitt wants to add corporate offices there in Ballpark Village, and that'd be incredible, but perhaps they need to worry about getting residents in there first.
Truly, I believe St. Louis and the Cardinals are missing out by not putting a condo or apartment tower (or both) on the east side of the development, behind what's currently there.
I feel like St. Louis could add a replica of the One Light tower being built in Kansas City (25-story building) and have the thing fully leased before they even break ground. I also think they'd have some success with condo towers.
I think they could go even taller. Heck, as far as I'm concerned, they should block off the Hilton's view.
Maybe they're holding off until the St. Louis economy improves. I don't know. But it'd be nice to see towers added to the south side of downtown, which has a gap tooth problem.
I know DeWitt wants to add corporate offices there in Ballpark Village, and that'd be incredible, but perhaps they need to worry about getting residents in there first.
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^Residential for Phase 2 is definitely in the works. My guess is Cordish wants a sweetheart deal from the city first though. Something will be built, but we need to have people like Mayor Slay put lots of pressure on them. They are very risk averse and like to milk the economic systems for as much as they can.
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I have major problems with Cordish. A lot of people do. They completely rip cities off. Even worse, they rip struggling cities off.
They're -- I don't know how else to put it -- quasi-evil developers. But that might be extreme and wrong, haha. They're bad business, regardless.
But I have another major problem with them.
Their developments are lazy and repeated. Sweet Jesus, take a look at Ballpark Village and then compare it to photos of Power & Light in Kansas City, Power Plant Live in Baltimore, Fourth Street Live in Louisville, or a whole number of the other developments you can find on their website. They're the same thing. Yeah, they're not identical, exact twins, but they're ... the same. Nothing feels inventive. Nothing feels special or uniquely specific to the city that any of these developments are in. They're boring.
Anything but that.
What's the upside of developing with Cordish? Their developments are in multiple cities now. St. Louisans and Kansas Citians only have to the travel ~four hours to see something strikingly similar. Vacationers from Baltimore, Louisville, and other Cordish-infected cities will come to St. Louis and Kansas City and find the most pimped entertainment districts in these markets are exactly like the most pimped entertainment districts back home. This bothers me immensely, and for several reasons. For one, both cities, St. Louis and Kansas City, went to the Panacea-Mart and found expensive Cordish down aisle 1, up on the top shelf. They're not developers; they're a name brand chain. For another, neither feels all that special considering they feel very much the same. It's a diluted, cheap product.
I find it hard to believe that St. Louis couldn't support two or even three high-rise residential towers right next to Busch Stadium. They'd probably be some of the most coveted apartments/condos in the metropolitan area. So why aren't they already going up? Does Cordish drag its feet like this everywhere it goes?
It's obvious that residential high-rises need to go in there, so they'd better be planning on it for phase 2. But as it is, I don't know that I believe they're planning anything at all. At this rate, the Cardinals are going to want a new stadium, or massive improvements to their current one, before they complete the district they promised in return for a ballpark.
They're -- I don't know how else to put it -- quasi-evil developers. But that might be extreme and wrong, haha. They're bad business, regardless.
But I have another major problem with them.
Their developments are lazy and repeated. Sweet Jesus, take a look at Ballpark Village and then compare it to photos of Power & Light in Kansas City, Power Plant Live in Baltimore, Fourth Street Live in Louisville, or a whole number of the other developments you can find on their website. They're the same thing. Yeah, they're not identical, exact twins, but they're ... the same. Nothing feels inventive. Nothing feels special or uniquely specific to the city that any of these developments are in. They're boring.
Anything but that.
What's the upside of developing with Cordish? Their developments are in multiple cities now. St. Louisans and Kansas Citians only have to the travel ~four hours to see something strikingly similar. Vacationers from Baltimore, Louisville, and other Cordish-infected cities will come to St. Louis and Kansas City and find the most pimped entertainment districts in these markets are exactly like the most pimped entertainment districts back home. This bothers me immensely, and for several reasons. For one, both cities, St. Louis and Kansas City, went to the Panacea-Mart and found expensive Cordish down aisle 1, up on the top shelf. They're not developers; they're a name brand chain. For another, neither feels all that special considering they feel very much the same. It's a diluted, cheap product.
I find it hard to believe that St. Louis couldn't support two or even three high-rise residential towers right next to Busch Stadium. They'd probably be some of the most coveted apartments/condos in the metropolitan area. So why aren't they already going up? Does Cordish drag its feet like this everywhere it goes?
It's obvious that residential high-rises need to go in there, so they'd better be planning on it for phase 2. But as it is, I don't know that I believe they're planning anything at all. At this rate, the Cardinals are going to want a new stadium, or massive improvements to their current one, before they complete the district they promised in return for a ballpark.
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Quick answer is yes, they do drag their feet everywhere.