urbanSTL

pattimagee wrote: ↑

Feb 14, 2025

^I've always thought The Historic Pearl Brewery development in San Antonio is a good model for Lemp... I would say The Pearl might be a little more luxury than I'd imagine Lemp being or St. Louis for that matter, but they did some amazing stuff over there. 

I have been there Pearl Brewery San Antonio. Amazing re development.

Lemp brewery is a great site. Though it is hard to execute a project unless the current ownership is willing to sell it. Alternatively city of st Louis can purchase Then all the suitors would respond to an RFP thru open and transparent process.

AlterraMike wrote: ↑

Feb 14, 2025

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Feb 14, 2025

AlterraMike wrote: ↑

Feb 14, 2025

We are constantly looking  new projects downtown St. Louis. Big believer in downtown core re-development.

Hope you guys get muni courts.  I think the solution there is to leave the 4 walls but hallow it out and go vertical

We actually have a high level concept plan that turns the Court building into 200 regular rooms plus 40 lofts hotel.  Possibly dual brand. Restaurants and collaborative art co-op (10-12 residents).  

We are patiently waiting for further guidance from the City of St Louis on the award process.

Thanks again for sharing

Getting away from the Jefferson Arms development but wondering what your thoughts on the Muni Courts backlot along Clark.  I feel this is such a great opportunity and location to infill but your comments are specific to the muni building itself.   Anymore you can share.   Db thoughts talk about keeping the muni building shell for a vertical tower which also makes a lot of sense.  But  I really think you could take the high level proposal you noted above and add infill behind with a residential tower on parking platform to take it to a whole new level of development .  Maybe phase II but a vision of infill. 
 

dredger wrote: ↑

Feb 15, 2025

AlterraMike wrote: ↑

Feb 14, 2025

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Feb 14, 2025

Hope you guys get muni courts.  I think the solution there is to leave the 4 walls but hallow it out and go vertical

We actually have a high level concept plan that turns the Court building into 200 regular rooms plus 40 lofts hotel.  Possibly dual brand. Restaurants and collaborative art co-op (10-12 residents).  

We are patiently waiting for further guidance from the City of St Louis on the award process.

Thanks again for sharing

Getting away from the Jefferson Arms development but wondering what your thoughts on the Muni Courts backlot along Clark.  I feel this is such a great opportunity and location to infill but your comments are specific to the muni building itself.   Anymore you can share.   Db thoughts talk about keeping the muni building shell for a vertical tower which also makes a lot of sense.  But  I really think you could take the high level proposal you noted above and add infill behind with a residential tower on parking platform to take it to a whole new level of development .  Maybe phase II but a vision of infill. 
 

Building a brand new tower makes more financial sense than keeping the skin of the court / a tall tower. If you modify muni court, you will lose all the financial grants from federal and state. These are significant.

Stand alone tower at Clark would be feasible if the market rents or condo sale justify such an investment. It would be a challenging undertaking at the moment with high interest environment.

Another option would be city hall moves to an office tower in downtown St Louis. Many buildings are suffering.

Historic city hall building, muni court building & Carter lot would form a more robust re-development.

All of this is city owned and should be put in a redevelopment RFP with 30 year 90% tax abatement.   The on ramp to 64 removed. It’s a dangerous intersection with 2.5-3m people annually going to the enterprise center/stifel

One issue with the buildings south of Clark is they all share a central plant. Would need to be untangled and the police antenna tower relocated

^Man. I do love city hall. So I would prefer keeping that as legacy use for city govt. Top public building in the USA - quite European of us here in stl

Anyways, love DBs post here for the most part. Make this area awesome - fantastic architecture, sports and concerts, multimodal haven are all already here. Just needs infill on those other lots and integration with its surroundings. Get the ramp removed and build on that parcel. It doesn’t work for the safety of cars, pedestrians, anything. Never understood this ramp or the ones at 10th (why not dump cars south or not at all). The interstate won’t go away right now but we can mitigate the effects.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Feb 16, 2025

I would vehemently oppose the demo of our city hall.  There are many other city offices in far less significant buildings that could be consolidated into high rises.   City hall?   You have got to be kidding.   You can easily utilize three adjacent mega parcels (muni courts. 2 parking lots) without including it any development schema, and could expand to the police academy lot and building.   City hall move is beyond ludicrous.  I don’t even like total demo of the mini courts building.

Edit:
Even if not torn down, what use would you apply to city hall and why would it be necessary for a “more robust development”?  I’m skeptical.  Lots of vacant lots in that area that could be utilized. Assuming a massive historic tax grab and abatement.

The objective would be to preserve beautiful City Hall Building as well as Muni Court Building. Highest and best use study is needed to determine appropriate end product which could be a part of an RFP.

City Hall Restoration Bill would be close to $40 million even if the city hall stays in it. Since the city has continuous budgetary challenges, proper upkeep and maintenance of all city buildings become very challenging.

^ city has run $200,000,000 in surpluses over the last 4 fiscal year. Half of the money sits in a rainy day fund and the other half has gone into the capital improvement plan that funds projects like facilities, vehicles etc.
More on the FY 2025 plan here

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... s-Plan.pdf

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Feb 16, 2025

All of this is city owned and should be put in a redevelopment RFP with 30 year 90% tax abatement.   The on ramp to 64 removed. It’s a dangerous intersection with 2.5-3m people annually going to the enterprise center/stifel

One issue with the buildings south of Clark is they all share a central plant. Would need to be untangled and the police antenna tower relocated

Amazing idea. I would also include upgrading the transportation Center. That Amtrak station is very hard to get to. It just doesn’t make sense. I have been taking the train ride when I fly from Chicago back and forth.

Phase 1 is nearly complete, just going through the final checklists.  I don’t think there will be a phase 2 any time soon

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Feb 16, 2025

AlterraMike wrote: ↑

Feb 16, 2025

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Feb 16, 2025

^ city has run $200,000,000 in surpluses over the last 4 fiscal year. Half of the money sits in a rainy day fund and the other half has gone into the capital improvement plan that funds projects like facilities, vehicles etc.
More on the FY 2025 plan here

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... s-Plan.pdf

Thank you for the insight. Once proper department hirings are finalized to fill all vacant positions and all capital improvements are completed, I hope surpluses continue.

Off topic, completion of the expansion of the Phase 1 Convention Center does it still need funding?  Any feedback on Phase 2.

Vacancies is definitely part of it, although the city always has vacancies.  Other part is growing earnings tax income due to tax filers with $50,000+ moving in and sales tax (restaurant sales for example in the City are up inflation adjusted since 2019, meanwhile Clayton restaurants are at 82% of 2019). 


 (2022 is the latest IRS data available, just released this week)

Wonderful!! Thank you.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Feb 16, 2025

AlterraMike wrote: ↑

Feb 16, 2025

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Feb 16, 2025

^ city has run $200,000,000 in surpluses over the last 4 fiscal year. Half of the money sits in a rainy day fund and the other half has gone into the capital improvement plan that funds projects like facilities, vehicles etc.
More on the FY 2025 plan here

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... s-Plan.pdf

Thank you for the insight. Once proper department hirings are finalized to fill all vacant positions and all capital improvements are completed, I hope surpluses continue.

Off topic, completion of the expansion of the Phase 1 Convention Center does it still need funding?  Any feedback on Phase 2.

Vacancies is definitely part of it, although the city always has vacancies.  Other part is growing earnings tax income due to tax filers with $50,000+ moving in and sales tax (restaurant sales for example in the City are up inflation adjusted since 2019, meanwhile Clayton restaurants are at 82% of 2019). 


 (2022 is the latest IRS data available, just released this week)

Significant year over year jump in people making 100k plus.  

Got to tour this property the other day. Lots of work remains to be done in the retail space, ballroom, and lobby areas. Hotel rooms are coming together as are the apartments and hallways. I did a write up on my own blog about my visit and included renderings of some of the businesses in this building (https://www.cityscene-stl.com/post/a-lo ... s-building). It was fun seeing the building in this state and I look forward to returning when it's closer to completion (which should be later this summer). 



































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Great pictures thanks for sharing. Tucker really needs to be slimmed down & beautified. Also that section of tucker would look great with a few new mid rises. Either way very exciting project


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PlatinumBlues wrote:Great pictures thanks for sharing. Tucker really needs to be slimmed down & beautified. Also that section of tucker would look great with a few new mid rises. Either way very exciting project


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When is that supposed to take place - the road diet and beautification?! I thought it was funded and supposed to be built by now


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dbehrens011 wrote:

PlatinumBlues wrote:Great pictures thanks for sharing. Tucker really needs to be slimmed down & beautified. Also that section of tucker would look great with a few new mid rises. Either way very exciting project


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When is that supposed to take place - the road diet and beautification?! I thought it was funded and supposed to be built by now


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I thought so as well who knows when they’ll actually begin construction on Tucker either way I’m very glad to see the old Jefferson hotel coming back to life


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It is on the 2/18 BPS agenda to approve contract with the winning bidder. My guess April start.

It's a shame that the Brickline segment from 20th to the Arch won't be complete until 2029. Maybe they are get an earlier mini-phase from 20th-Tucker built out first to connect to the Tucker improvements.

I won't be able to make it but there is actually an open house on the 25th for the segment. One of y'all should go and report back.

AlterraMike wrote: ↑

Feb 16, 2025

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Feb 16, 2025

I would vehemently oppose the demo of our city hall.  There are many other city offices in far less significant buildings that could be consolidated into high rises.   City hall?   You have got to be kidding.   You can easily utilize three adjacent mega parcels (muni courts. 2 parking lots) without including it any development schema, and could expand to the police academy lot and building.   City hall move is beyond ludicrous.  I don’t even like total demo of the mini courts building.

Edit:
Even if not torn down, what use would you apply to city hall and why would it be necessary for a “more robust development”?  I’m skeptical.  Lots of vacant lots in that area that could be utilized.  Assuming a massive historic tax grab and abatement.

The objective would be to preserve beautiful City Hall Building as well as Muni Court Building.  Highest and best use study is needed to determine appropriate end product which could be a part of an RFP.

City Hall Restoration Bill would be close to $40 million even if the city hall stays in it. Since the city has continuous budgetary challenges, proper upkeep and maintenance of all city buildings become very challenging.

Interesting, I hadn't ever considered City Hall as part of a larger private development. While it's kind of cool having the local government in such an old/historic building, I would not mind it being turned into another use, especially if that use maintained some public access, e.g. a lobby restaurant/bar or similar. Icing on the cake would be if it restored the old towers. Some parts of the building I have been to have significant deferred maintenance/are not up-to-date, and those are just the publicly accessible portions. I am not a developer but it seems to be that a modern renovation would be very pricey, and I can think of many other things I'd prioritize above an expensive renovation, surpluses or not. There's no shortage of office-type buildings with more recent renovations that the city could find space in downtown, including some historic buildings like the Wainwright (if that the direction the redevelopment goes).

Anyway, not saying that is definitely what should happen, but I'd like to at least see the city hear what proposals would be offered, price tags, whether a move would actually save the city money or if it would spend just as much with a relocation, etc.

Getting there.

Juliet balconies are getting fully restored. Bringing the original facade back to
Life. Do you all like it?

Love the balconies!

It looks really good!