urbanSTL

^ Certainly agree with a lot of what STLeng and Arch City just stated. The pluses out weigh the negatives in a big way. In same breath, I can see were just rearranging the puzzle pieces on the board could greatly improve the site plan. I think site plan clearly shows more about the efficiency of Ikea in its a business model than it does as sustainability. Swedes are out to make a buck like everyone else as I'm sure every single one of us on this forum is aware of.

One clarification if some one can correct me. I don't believe it is underground parking. It is parking on the first level with store footprint on the second or raised level. The cost/build out difference would be significant

As Arch City notes, Pace is clearly in position to and should deliver much more for its Midtown development. The demand will be there for mid rise vertical development instead of a couple of simple big box stores. This site is begging for mixed use residential and a greenway trail tie in using the existing rail spur trestle. Think the Boulevards with a much better urban setting and a city that would actually welcome it. I'm still amazed how much blowback their has been recently with recent multi residential or assisted living in the county and west.

"One clarification if some one can correct me. I don't believe it is underground parking. It is parking on the first level with store footprint on the second or raised level."

You are correct. From the StlToday.com article
"The two-story St. Louis store will be 380,000 square feet, with 1,250 parking spaces in a garage one level below the store on the ground level."

dredger wrote:As Arch City notes, Pace is clearly in position to and should deliver much more for its Midtown development. The demand will be there for mid rise vertical development instead of a couple of simple big box stores. This site is begging for mixed use residential and a greenway trail tie in using the existing rail spur trestle. Think the Boulevards with a much better urban setting and a city that would actually welcome it.

Couldn't agree more, especially considering the potential for a Boyle Metrolink Station and a Lindell Streetcar.

Many of you are saying "just move the building up to Forest Park Parkway. It's that easy!" But, it's not. Ikeas have one entrance on one side. As Rawest pointed out, this is a highly engineered shopping experience. Ikea's have the entrance and exit on one side, and the back is basically a warehouse loading dock for trucks. If you did just flip the site plan and move the building to FoPo, you'd either have loading docks facing directly onto the Parkway, which doesn't work. Or you'd have loading docks in the parking lot, and everyone parking in the lot would have to walk around the entire building to get in the door. Also, Ikeas often build out mini-transit centers in front of their stores so that buses can pull directly up and briefly idle. If the store went up to the sidewalk there wouldn't really be room for this, unless it was in back with the loading dock, and the parking lot, and all the transit riders (again) would have to walk around the entire building to get in.

I think the natural reaction is to want this to be along the street-wall, and to establish a more urban presents. But ultimately, it's an Ikea that will be built, and that means certain design elements that I don't think are really negotiable.

I think a lot of you have unrealistic expectations about IKEA's willingness to build a more urban-form store. The only one I've ever been to was in London and it was surrounded by a sea of surface parking (yes, in LONDON). This one actually looks like it has less surface parking than that one. Surface parking is just the nature of the beast here.

I think it's FINE as it is. No need to "flip" it to Forest Park Parkway.

StlToday - Ikea spent years looking for perfect St. Louis spot

It took nearly a decade for Ikea to find the right spot for a store in St. Louis.

The Swedish retailer began scouting locations in the region in 2004 — well before it launched a search in Kansas City. Over the years, its local real estate broker, Pace Properties, analyzed more than 30 sites and took Ikea executives, including several from Sweden, to some of those places.

Under tax-increment financing, property taxes are frozen and half of the city sales tax generated by the new project is used to pay for the development’s infrastructure and some other costs.

The next development could be a midrise residential building with ground-floor retail just around the corner from the Ikea site. Lower said negotiations were underway with “a couple of developers” to build the mixed-use project at South Sarah Street and Forest Park Avenue.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... a61da.html

At last night's 17th ward holiday party, the new Ikea was a major topic of discussion. Alderman Roddy, Dennis Lower (from Cortex), and an Ikea spokesman all gave speeches. Apparently the reason the store is not situated next to Forest Park Parkway is the presence of a sewer under that part of the site that would have taken several million dollars to move. There was also talk of having more of the parking structured, but that was also abandoned because it would have taken an additional 15-20 million dollars to do. Ikea was not willing to pay for all of that themselves and was willing to go their second-choice spot in the suburbs if they were required to build that way. Cortex considered spending money themselves to make up the difference, but Cortex decided they would rather spend that money on other projects, hopefully a MetroLink stop. The current site plan is a compromise, a decision to allocate resources to other CORTEX projects, and a belief on the part of the decision-makers that the upsides of getting an Ikea in the city (tax revenue, a psychological boost, a means to draw other retailers, etc.) outweighed the downsides of a sub-optimal site plan.

I don't like the site plan, and I might have voted to spend 5 million to move the sewer, or even more to have all the parking be structured, but I think saving that money to spend on a MetroLink station or other Cortex improvements wasn't unreasonable either.

Probably Fenton, right next to the new Rams stadium at the old Chrysler Plant site! No, I'm joking. Can you imagine?

So where in the CWE could we squeeze in the new Rams stadium, now that this is the hot part of town. And how do we incorporate the grain elevator as the wall o' luxury skyboxes?

gary kreie wrote:So where in the CWE could we squeeze in the new Rams stadium, now that this is the hot part of town. And how do we incorporate the grain elevator as the wall o' luxury skyboxes?

Forest Park. They could get some greenfield money.

rbeedee wrote:At last night's 17th ward holiday party, the new Ikea was a major topic of discussion. Alderman Roddy, Dennis Lower (from Cortex), and an Ikea spokesman all gave speeches. Apparently the reason the store is not situated next to Forest Park Parkway is the presence of a sewer under that part of the site that would have taken several million dollars to move. There was also talk of having more of the parking structured, but that was also abandoned because it would have taken an additional 15-20 million dollars to do. Ikea was not willing to pay for all of that themselves and was willing to go their second-choice spot in the suburbs if they were required to build that way. Cortex considered spending money themselves to make up the difference, but Cortex decided they would rather spend that money on other projects, hopefully a MetroLink stop. The current site plan is a compromise, a decision to allocate resources to other CORTEX projects, and a belief on the part of the decision-makers that the upsides of getting an Ikea in the city (tax revenue, a psychological boost, a means to draw other retailers, etc.) outweighed the downsides of a sub-optimal site plan.

I don't like the site plan, and I might have voted to spend 5 million to move the sewer, or even more to have all the parking be structured, but I think saving that money to spend on a MetroLink station or other Cortex improvements wasn't unreasonable either.

Any talk of future mix-use development of the parking lot?

It would be good to ask IKEA if they are opposed to a future development on the parking lot like what is show in the Cortex plans. If you could have residential/retail surrounding a parking garage on that block where the entrance faces IKEA, would they go for that? If so, I'm much happier.

flipz wrote:Any talk of future mix-use development of the parking lot?

Not that I'm aware of.

There is a mixed use/residential mid-rise planned for the SE corner of Sarah and Forest Park (#12) on this map (obtained from NextSTL's Flickr account).

How about converting the grain silos into apartments

^ Where would they put all the grain? This silo is still in use, ya know?