From UrbanReviewSTL twitter
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Site Plan: https://twitter.com/UrbanReviewSTL/stat ... to/1/largedredger wrote:Downtown, I haven't seen anything yet as far as site plan but understand that CORTEX master plan/long term plan is to do residential infill between Ikea and Forest Park itself. Assuming that the surface parking your referring to is the immediate plans. Like BPV, it would at first glance it would be a disappoint. However, Unlike BPV I have much more faith that CORTEX intends to build out on a much sooner time line and pace has certainly quickened as properties have been secured.
Not obvious from the site plan, one full layer of underground parking under the store. Compared to an average suburban IKEA, this surface lot is pretty small.
Looks fine to me. I'm not convinced that having an IKEA directly along the street-wall/sidewalk would be much of an improvement. Anywhere you put it, it's a pretty brutal, non-human-scaled structure.
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Let's just flip the parking lot and store so it faces Forest Park. What is the argument NOT to? I-64 store visibility? Man, this is great for the city.
Corporate retailers live and die by the prototype - and as the recent experience with CVS shows (and that was a small adjustment to get them to move to the street) getting them to change is very difficult, especially when it is a big prize like Ikea. This is consistent with their new stores in the rest of North America - they do a few cool ones in Europe, even there they are usually suburban and auto oriented - but we are such a different animal from that there is no history, incentive or civic leverage to do them different -downtown2007 wrote:The site plan is terrible. Too much surface parking and no street wall for Forest Park. Very disappointing.
the site wastes a lot of space, as big box stores tend to do - hopefully is some future world it will get soaked up with some good urbanism - but that is not SOP right now, or probably the near future
Note - most of the parking will be underground - also - 30,000 larger than KC store - my guess is that this is because there was more space to work with on this site-
Could they be saving the Forest Park side for a future hotel that ikea has been developing?
If so, where would their customers park? I presume to make this possible, they'd have to build underground parking.dmelsh wrote:Could they be saving the Forest Park side for a future hotel that ikea has been developing?
What about a garage. I know the city has too many garages, but I think we'd also all agree they're generally better than surface lots.
I'd gladly trade a garage for a more street facing set of units.
I'd gladly trade a garage for a more street facing set of units.
Does IKEA ever share a building? They could move the building up to FP, have commercial spaces facing FP for other retailers, and have IKEA facing towards the highway and parking lot.
I would also like a parking garage with street level retail that faces FP more than this.
I would also like a parking garage with street level retail that faces FP more than this.
the IKEA stores in the metro DC area all include garage parking below the store structure.... a must in over-priced metro DC area real estate.
What is really killing it is the wide outer road they plan to the north and east - soaks up a lot of space- but relieves congestion for the surface lot - could be done a lot more efficient - but I am guessing the dye is castjstriebel wrote:What about a garage. I know the city has too many garages, but I think we'd also all agree they're generally better than surface lots.
I'd gladly trade a garage for a more street facing set of units.
The parking lot is truly atrocious. Holy suburbia. So they are eliminating and entire block and Duncan Ave for a parking lot? Can we doing anything about this like some sort of redesign similar to CVS?
Truthfully and respectfully, while people are certainly entitled to their opinions ('cause I certainly have mine), I think some are putting too much emphasis on the parking layout.
As topher has stated, the surface parking for the St. Louis store is a win. The parking layout is a steal. At many IKEA's, the surface parking tends to go as far as the eyes can see. Imagine no underground garage and an additional 1200 surface parking spaces. That would have been hideous. These surface parking spaces, along with the outer management lanes, are not bad at all. I like that the loading docks face I-64 and do not face any of the major arterial roads.
This isn't your ubiquitous mall. People need to realize how many people will be coming to St. Louis from a 200-300 mile radius just to shop at this store - then return home.
Regardless of how one feels, to me, the parking layout is a very small price to pay to have one of the world's biggest international retailers located in the city. If Pace is nudged to soften the area with trees and green landscaping - it's all good. The overall benefits to St. Louis City and the region are enormous.
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Here's an aerial of the Winnipeg, Canada store before it was completed about a year ago.
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As topher has stated, the surface parking for the St. Louis store is a win. The parking layout is a steal. At many IKEA's, the surface parking tends to go as far as the eyes can see. Imagine no underground garage and an additional 1200 surface parking spaces. That would have been hideous. These surface parking spaces, along with the outer management lanes, are not bad at all. I like that the loading docks face I-64 and do not face any of the major arterial roads.
This isn't your ubiquitous mall. People need to realize how many people will be coming to St. Louis from a 200-300 mile radius just to shop at this store - then return home.
Regardless of how one feels, to me, the parking layout is a very small price to pay to have one of the world's biggest international retailers located in the city. If Pace is nudged to soften the area with trees and green landscaping - it's all good. The overall benefits to St. Louis City and the region are enormous.
Here's an aerial of the Winnipeg, Canada store before it was completed about a year ago.
The comments section of the IKEA Facebook page with the announcement is funny.
-Anger from people in New York City and Los Angeles that they're not getting another store closer to them when it takes a whole 45 minutes to get to the closest current one.
-People in places like Sioux Falls SD, Cedar Rapids IA, Boise ID or Butte MT astounded they're not getting a store.
-Like I said before, lots of complaints from Las Vegas about their missing out.
-Anger from people in New York City and Los Angeles that they're not getting another store closer to them when it takes a whole 45 minutes to get to the closest current one.
-People in places like Sioux Falls SD, Cedar Rapids IA, Boise ID or Butte MT astounded they're not getting a store.
-Like I said before, lots of complaints from Las Vegas about their missing out.
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Vegas, San Antonio, and New Orleans seem to be the main three wanting one now. Oh, and Hawai'i. Whatever, we beat them. We win.
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Very very very very VERY happy with this commitment.
Two words: Underground Parking! And you know that both the top and lower lots will fill out quickly. And very glad as well to see the loading docks are along the south side abutting elevated 64/40. Too much design criticism now may be looking the gift horse in the mouth; all things considered, especially what was there before, this is a damn sound improvement and sure ain't too shabby when compared to a redundant, outdated BP.
This should lead to an incredible amount of ancillary development; more money for the City's revenues; and a solid revenue stream for Cortex as it builds up its infrastructure and companies! That's the big deal for me, getting an additional $2MM/year for Cortex to build up into a full-strength, globally competitive biotech cluster.
Looking forward to hearing more about Pace's plans for Midtown Station... as well as what's going to happen along Vandeventer north of Forest Park Parkway. Good times indeed.
Addendum: Kind of surprised we're not gonna see the grain silos painted an alternating blue & yellow.
Two words: Underground Parking! And you know that both the top and lower lots will fill out quickly. And very glad as well to see the loading docks are along the south side abutting elevated 64/40. Too much design criticism now may be looking the gift horse in the mouth; all things considered, especially what was there before, this is a damn sound improvement and sure ain't too shabby when compared to a redundant, outdated BP.
This should lead to an incredible amount of ancillary development; more money for the City's revenues; and a solid revenue stream for Cortex as it builds up its infrastructure and companies! That's the big deal for me, getting an additional $2MM/year for Cortex to build up into a full-strength, globally competitive biotech cluster.
Looking forward to hearing more about Pace's plans for Midtown Station... as well as what's going to happen along Vandeventer north of Forest Park Parkway. Good times indeed.
Addendum: Kind of surprised we're not gonna see the grain silos painted an alternating blue & yellow.
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So some are willing to ignore the suburban layout because it's "IKEA." Well if we let this site plan slide for Ikea how on earth do we keep Pace in check next door with their big box retail plan?
Seriously, some of you crack me up. You are *never* satisfied.
Here is what is proposed:
STL'S IKEA
380,000 sq, foot store (larger than Atlanta, Miami, Orlando and many others). 1200 parking spots (half covered in parking garage - which is not usually done in suburban stores). IKEA is BUILDING IN THE CITY with one of their most urban style stores in the USA. There is less surface parking here (about 600 spaces) than most stores (averaging a parking lot of 1200-1600 surface spaces).
and some of you are going to b**** about a smaller outside "suburban" parking lot (even with underground parking) and the way the store is going to face. Get a grip.
Here is what is proposed:
STL'S IKEA
380,000 sq, foot store (larger than Atlanta, Miami, Orlando and many others). 1200 parking spots (half covered in parking garage - which is not usually done in suburban stores). IKEA is BUILDING IN THE CITY with one of their most urban style stores in the USA. There is less surface parking here (about 600 spaces) than most stores (averaging a parking lot of 1200-1600 surface spaces).
and some of you are going to b**** about a smaller outside "suburban" parking lot (even with underground parking) and the way the store is going to face. Get a grip.
Yes they should have fronted it to Forest Park, but at least they put a lot of the parking under the store. Show me one suburban retail store that has parking underneath.moorlander wrote:So some are willing to ignore the suburban layout because it's "IKEA." Well if we let this site plan slide for Ikea how on earth do we keep Pace in check next door with their big box retail plan?
As for Midtown Center, there will be many stores wanting to be part of this project now that Ikea is next to it. Tell the stores to follow the form code or we'll move on to the next one.
We're the average guy in school and the one of the prettiest, most popular girls agrees to go with us to the prom; but now we're going to complain about her hair and the dress she picked out?matguy70 wrote:Seriously, some of you crack me up. You are *never* satisfied.
Here is what is proposed:
STL'S IKEA
380,000 sq, foot store (larger than Atlanta, Miami, Orlando and many others). 1200 parking spots (half covered in parking garage - which is not usually done in suburban stores). IKEA is BUILDING IN THE CITY with one of their most urban style stores in the USA. There is less surface parking here (about 600 spaces) than most stores (averaging a parking lot of 1200-1600 surface spaces).
and some of you are going to b**** about a smaller outside "suburban" parking lot (even with underground parking) and the way the store is going to face. Get a grip.
That's a good and fair question.moorlander wrote:So some are willing to ignore the suburban layout because it's "IKEA." Well if we let this site plan slide for Ikea how on earth do we keep Pace in check next door with their big box retail plan?
First, I haven't seen one U.S. IKEA store built in complete "urban scale". IKEAs are simply too big and demand for parking is tremendous. You typically have to come to IKEA in a truck or car because 9-times-out-of-10, you will be buying sh*t you can't take on MetroLink or on the bus.
IKEA did well by adding underground parking. Second, I don't know of any U.S. IKEA without some surface parking and to me this parking layout is minuscule compared to other U.S. stores.
Further, if IKEA had pushed the store up to Forest Park, where would the loading docks go?
On the other hand, Midtown Station (Pace Properties) doesn't have to build a big box suburban scale shopping center with a massive parking lot in the heart of the city. They should take a cue from their The Boulevard project in Richmond Heights.
Check out this layout of Assembly Row (Assembly Square), a project which had been planned in Somerville, Massachusetts - just outside of Boston. IKEA eventually didn't build there, but look the urban district right next to where the IKEA would have been built - and yes, it has parking. Apparently, some surface parking is an IKEA requirement, which I understand.
This proves that an urban scale project can go up next to an IKEA.
What is urban about this store? Just because it is a different parking configuration doesn't make it urban. Its ok to throw a fit about the CVS on Lindell but this building is perfectly ok? I don't get it.
Its awesome that they chose the city, and this will be great for the area. But what's wrong with asking that they try a different configuration? There so much more potential for than corner than just a parking lot.
Its awesome that they chose the city, and this will be great for the area. But what's wrong with asking that they try a different configuration? There so much more potential for than corner than just a parking lot.