^Just being facetious... 
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This.MattnSTL wrote:^And it's still cheap crap either way. I went to IKEA when I was last in Chicago to check out what all the talk was about, and I didn't find a single thing I wanted to buy.
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There are a lot of places you can buy cheap crap. I guess I don't understand why everyone is so coo coo for cocoa puffs over Ikea.
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^For some reason, having one of these stores means that your market has arrived. Not sure why that is. Maybe it means the average Joe or lower income people can be trendy.
They are known for having trendy products for cheap. It is percieved by some, that if IKEA chooses your City, you have arrived. As much as I doubt I'd buy much from them, I'd like to have the store in St. Louis. We'd have people from all over the Midwest coming to St. Louis to buy cheap home goods.
We can say to KC, you may have a Lego Land, but we have IKEA!!!
They are known for having trendy products for cheap. It is percieved by some, that if IKEA chooses your City, you have arrived. As much as I doubt I'd buy much from them, I'd like to have the store in St. Louis. We'd have people from all over the Midwest coming to St. Louis to buy cheap home goods.
We can say to KC, you may have a Lego Land, but we have IKEA!!!
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But there's nowhere else to buy cheap crap if your tastes run to Euro/modern-style furniture. Yeah, IKEA furniture is fairly flimsy stuff, but the comparably-priced furniture anywhere else is equally flimsy and looks like crap as well.moorlander wrote:There are a lot of places you can buy cheap crap. I guess I don't understand why everyone is so coo coo for cocoa puffs over Ikea.
Plenty of places online. CB2, West Elm, etc...southsidered wrote:But there's nowhere else to buy cheap crap if your tastes run to Euro/modern-style furniture. Yeah, IKEA furniture is fairly flimsy stuff, but the comparably-priced furniture anywhere else is equally flimsy and looks like crap as well.moorlander wrote:There are a lot of places you can buy cheap crap. I guess I don't understand why everyone is so coo coo for cocoa puffs over Ikea.
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^^ That's it. We have purchased most of our children's bedroom items from Ikea. Cheap is great and it is attractive. The crib, curtains, toys, plates, etc. still look good going on three years.
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I would much rather see them move into Union Station or the MX. We need a unique retailer in one of those spots.
Heck, I would take a spot next to Union Station if it was the catalyst that got a new 22nd street interchange built and replaces a portion of the the west downtown street grid that got destroyed by an ill conceived idea. Still believe that this part of McKee's northside plan should be embraced, and a new 22nd street interchance can't come fast enough.downtown2007 wrote:I would much rather see them move into Union Station or the MX. We need a unique retailer in one of those spots.
West Downtown needs a big office and/or retail win and would favor this anyday over a proposed walmart for northside. Something that gets people to head into the city to shop even though its not street level retail on Wash Ave, but a start.
I did enjoy PD discussion posts for a change concerning the latest Maryland Heights floodway big box store proposal and the developer bringing up IKEA. A lot of people are starting to understand what they got out of these TIFS that just encouraged box stores to move around, tax dollars used to build them and the low paying retail jobs that go with them. One well stated comment made sense to me, IKEA is just a red herring to get attention. Couldn't agree more and have a tough time seeing one coming anytime soon.
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I won't disagree with you...just discussing shipping costs. I wish St. Louis had a better furniture market so I don't have to ship everything.MattnSTL wrote:^And it's still cheap crap either way. I went to IKEA when I was last in Chicago to check out what all the talk was about, and I didn't find a single thing I wanted to buy.
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Absolutely. IKEA will move here when they want to move here. This developer and this site won't magically deliver an IKEA. Heck, if IKEA was intent on building on a flood plain, their most attractive option would be out near Chesterfield Commons because it already has the infrastructure and traffic. If they are willing to look on stable ground, there's hundreds of decent sites and 90+ municipalities willing to fall over backwards to clear out the existing property owners and give IKEA an awesome deal.dredger wrote:downtown2007 wrote:One well stated comment made sense to me, IKEA is just a red herring to get attention. Couldn't agree more and have a tough time seeing one coming anytime soon.
From what I've heard, the developer probably has a better bet of swiping Bass Pro Shops from St. Charles when their lease expires in 2015. Apparently, Bass Pro wants a bigger space. Nothing, but moving sales tax dollars around
Is an IKEA in the works for Richmond Heights? Read the entire article from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch here.
Clues
-A proposed 400,000 square foot "big box" store with two levels.
-Most IKEA stores are two levels.
-Approximate size of most IKEA stores.
-Next to major highways (I-64 & I-170).
-"Tenant-Driven" development facing highway on northern portion of development site.
-High visibility
-Next to other major shopping, dining and entertainment.
______________________________________
The size of some existing IKEA stores in the United States.
-Chicago (450,000)
-Denver (415,000)
-Cincinnati/Dayton (344,000)
-Atlanta (338,700)
-MSP (330,000)
-Detroit (311,000)
-Dallas (310,000)
-Houston (300,000)
-Austin (252,000) with an attached garage.
-Pittsburgh (221,000)
_________________________________________
From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch article:
"On the north section, Pace has proposed a two-story, 400,000-square-foot "big box" retail store and parking structure on slightly more than 20 acres. The Shell service station at Hanley and Dale Avenue would be relocated. The company is asking for $27 million in TIF financing of the estimated $125 million development.
Richard M. Randall Jr., senior vice president of Pace, presented the plan Monday night. He said there would be multiple tenants in the store, but did not identify any. "If we're selected, we'll be off and running, trying to perfect the project," Randall said in an interview.
In a letter to the mayor, Randall wrote that Pace's response was "tenant driven."
(Read more)
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Clues
-A proposed 400,000 square foot "big box" store with two levels.
-Most IKEA stores are two levels.
-Approximate size of most IKEA stores.
-Next to major highways (I-64 & I-170).
-"Tenant-Driven" development facing highway on northern portion of development site.
-High visibility
-Next to other major shopping, dining and entertainment.
______________________________________
The size of some existing IKEA stores in the United States.
-Chicago (450,000)
-Denver (415,000)
-Cincinnati/Dayton (344,000)
-Atlanta (338,700)
-MSP (330,000)
-Detroit (311,000)
-Dallas (310,000)
-Houston (300,000)
-Austin (252,000) with an attached garage.
-Pittsburgh (221,000)
_________________________________________
From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch article:
"On the north section, Pace has proposed a two-story, 400,000-square-foot "big box" retail store and parking structure on slightly more than 20 acres. The Shell service station at Hanley and Dale Avenue would be relocated. The company is asking for $27 million in TIF financing of the estimated $125 million development.
Richard M. Randall Jr., senior vice president of Pace, presented the plan Monday night. He said there would be multiple tenants in the store, but did not identify any. "If we're selected, we'll be off and running, trying to perfect the project," Randall said in an interview.
In a letter to the mayor, Randall wrote that Pace's response was "tenant driven."
(Read more)
Another clue - the Centennial, CO IKEA had a construction cost estimate of more than $80 million at the signing of the development agreement.
If one figures the cost for residential neighborhood demo, clearing, utility relocation and other infrastructure costs related to clearing a urban neighborhood plus the cost for the IKEA store/parking structure it would seem to come out to ~$125 million.
Though I think the biggest clue is the "tenant driven" quote - IKEA doesn't simply plop a store anywhere like Wally World, the stores are highly thought out, incorporate sustainable practices and maximize all factors involved.
If Saint Louis needed one more big box, IKEA is the one I'd vote for!
Plus, why would we pay for a CostCo next to a WalMart and Sam Club or a Menards across the street from a Home Depot? To increase consumer choices?
If one figures the cost for residential neighborhood demo, clearing, utility relocation and other infrastructure costs related to clearing a urban neighborhood plus the cost for the IKEA store/parking structure it would seem to come out to ~$125 million.
Though I think the biggest clue is the "tenant driven" quote - IKEA doesn't simply plop a store anywhere like Wally World, the stores are highly thought out, incorporate sustainable practices and maximize all factors involved.
If Saint Louis needed one more big box, IKEA is the one I'd vote for!
Plus, why would we pay for a CostCo next to a WalMart and Sam Club or a Menards across the street from a Home Depot? To increase consumer choices?
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^ Well, there will be a Costco or Menards on the southern section. Richmond Heights is deciding between the two. The north development may be something different - perhaps an IKEA.
Yes, unfortunately the southern section is a separate proposal but (hopefully) the Richmond Height delegates will see a future where large big box retail with a sea of asphalt parking is not the answer.
Lord knows that acres of parking don't generate tax revenue. But that's a whole different topic to start on this thread...
(And to clarify by 'don't generate tax revenue' I mean the standard big box pattern versus smart, dense, mixed-use development pattern)
Lord knows that acres of parking don't generate tax revenue. But that's a whole different topic to start on this thread...
(And to clarify by 'don't generate tax revenue' I mean the standard big box pattern versus smart, dense, mixed-use development pattern)
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^ Right, it's bizarre to me how Richmond Heights (and other muni's) continue to seek retail development. I'd have to run the numbers, but a healthy residential Hadley Heights would very likely produce more tax revenue. And that's not really the point. We continue to take entire neighborhoods and bulldoze them for shopping.
I've never been to an IKEA. What is the big deal with them? Is everyone going to go to Richmond Heights because there's an IKEA now? Its just a store right? Does Willy Wonka come out and take you around the store?
^I've been to the one in Atlanta. It's like a 'Scandinavian Design' theme park. If you remotely like Scandinavian design (simplicity for a cluttered world) then you'll love this place.
Okay, I admit I love these stores. They make you greedy but are very inspirational. I come out of there with ideas, thoughts, and as a designer myself, refreshed and energized and a bit worn out from the stimuli.
And people drive in from Chattanooga, Greensboro, Birmingham, etc to shop there. To continue with the theme park, it is a shopping attraction. And it's a bit of hype—my concern is that as IKEA overbuilds, their mystic will fade. You know, like Build-A-Bear.
That said, people will come from hundreds of miles to shop there.
Okay, I admit I love these stores. They make you greedy but are very inspirational. I come out of there with ideas, thoughts, and as a designer myself, refreshed and energized and a bit worn out from the stimuli.
And people drive in from Chattanooga, Greensboro, Birmingham, etc to shop there. To continue with the theme park, it is a shopping attraction. And it's a bit of hype—my concern is that as IKEA overbuilds, their mystic will fade. You know, like Build-A-Bear.
That said, people will come from hundreds of miles to shop there.
Why does IKEA need a TIF? Are they poor? Is Richmond Heights a place where people wouldn't invest without one? Seems unlikely considering it's probably one of the top retail areas in the region. If IKEA's catchment area is "a few hundred miles" then it seems like they are going to make a lot of money without a TIF. Why should government support this level of corporate welfare? Maybe if we stopped doing this we wouldn't need extra taxes for parks and transit.
Politically neutral East West Gateway has already looked at this issue and found it to be detrimental to the region as a whole and a "losing strategy." 2.5 billion wasted. What could we fund with that kind of cash? How about a lot of transit, housing, job training, and educational improvements. We are throwing away money when a lot of capital isn't coming to our region. Seems like, under such a situation, frugality and smart investment should be the priority.
Politically neutral East West Gateway has already looked at this issue and found it to be detrimental to the region as a whole and a "losing strategy." 2.5 billion wasted. What could we fund with that kind of cash? How about a lot of transit, housing, job training, and educational improvements. We are throwing away money when a lot of capital isn't coming to our region. Seems like, under such a situation, frugality and smart investment should be the priority.
Ha...I think they are quite the opposite of poor.doug wrote:Why does IKEA need a TIF? Are they poor?
Though, its not IKEA that would be asking for the TIF money, its the developer who is asking for the TIF money.
OK, I don't want to derail this thread with TIF talk. I'm sure that's be discussed ad-nauseum. But I'm not sure what TIFs are for.
I think (?) the purpose of a TIF to reimburse the developer for infrastructure not directly related to the commercial lease.
So my understanding is that if you build a large, mixed-use development (that includes i.e. roads that will be owned and maintained by the city) the TIF is to help reimburse construction costs for things that would normally be built by the municipality—sidewalks, streets, traffic lights, streetlights, etc.
That said, Chesterfield Commons can be seen as a mis-use. BVP (if ever built) would be an appropriate use.
Yes? No?
I think (?) the purpose of a TIF to reimburse the developer for infrastructure not directly related to the commercial lease.
So my understanding is that if you build a large, mixed-use development (that includes i.e. roads that will be owned and maintained by the city) the TIF is to help reimburse construction costs for things that would normally be built by the municipality—sidewalks, streets, traffic lights, streetlights, etc.
That said, Chesterfield Commons can be seen as a mis-use. BVP (if ever built) would be an appropriate use.
Yes? No?
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Briefly, TIF was/is? designed to support development that would not otherwise be built. This is often cited as needed infrastructure. That could be streets, but is more often sewer, power substations, sidewalks, etc. - not necessarily what will be owned and maintained by the city.
thanks! so it's very muddy with loose boundaries. makes sense.
(and you know, I liked my version better—ugh—innocence lost.)
(and you know, I liked my version better—ugh—innocence lost.)
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I think, if you are going to put an IKEA somewhere, Hadley is the place. Then again, I thought the soccer stadium would have been in a prime spot. It would have been awesome. Based upon the location I went to in Pittsburgh, the Hadley site would work quite well, if not MUCH better. There store was big, but in a large strip mall by the airport. RH is VERY centrally located in the metro area. I think IKEA will do great. People will be able to buy stylish, practical stuff, for cheap. I wonder how an IKEA affects other furniture stores in the area?? That area is prime though. An IKEA would soften the blow of a Menards/Costco development. I am so against adding these retail stores, since there are stores exactly like that down/across the street. Time will tell, but as all IKEA rumors, I will not take them seriously, until it is official.