Historic Fourth Street at Chouteau's Landing

bonwich · PostApr 14, 2008#2512008-04-14T21:22+00:00

goat314 wrote:
Conurbation wrote:
DeBaliviere wrote:

What I would like to see long-term, either in conjunction with or independent of any Chouteau's Pond plans (and let's not sit around waiting for that to happen), is infill development on the parking lots along Broadway. Parking could still be retained behind the new buildings, but at least give Broadway and maybe Fourth Street a more "finished" look.

Speaking of finished look, what about all the horrible railroad and highway bridges bisecting the area? I understand that they have their functional uses, but why do they have to be so ugly? Rusty bridges with no lighting and chain-link fences going every which way does not an attractive setting make.

I think artsy people like that kind of stuff, it gives the area character.

And it so perfectly complements Powell Square.

lukethedrifter · PostApr 17, 2008#2522008-04-17T22:56+00:00

jlblues wrote:
ChrisInDownTown wrote:I may be off here but...was the developer the same guy who is now in all the trouble with teh Ford? Or am I getting my names mixed up.
Matt Burghoff did propose a grocery somewhere on Washington Avenue, but I don't remember the exact location.

I don't think he's gonna have time for this project.

jlblues · PostApr 17, 2008#2532008-04-17T23:20+00:00

^Quite the contrary, he will get...er, have plenty of time soon.

yeahoo · PostMay 01, 2008#2542008-05-01T21:11+00:00

Has anyone been into Bushwood's yet? I'm pretty sure they opened this week.

jcity · PostMay 02, 2008#2552008-05-02T04:09+00:00

what about all the horrible railroad and highway bridges bisecting the area

are you kidding? I'm not "artsy" at all and I'm a HUGE fan of those railroad bridges going DIRECTLY over the bars down there. VERY big city. You must be from Chesterworld... Those bridges could be in NY.

blzhrpmd2 · PostMay 02, 2008#2562008-05-02T12:32+00:00

Agreed. I love being outside at Oyster Bar or Beale on Broadway with the sight and sound of a train underneath the blues music. Gives some authenticity to the setting.

conurbation · PostMay 05, 2008#2572008-05-05T04:18+00:00

JCity wrote:are you kidding? I'm not "artsy" at all and I'm a HUGE fan of those railroad bridges going DIRECTLY over the bars down there. VERY big city. You must be from Chesterworld... Those bridges could be in NY.

Yes, I'm from Chesterworld. That is why it is says that I live in Benton Park under my avatar. They are just a couple miles apart. Uncalled for jab aside, if you would have read more clearly, you would have noticed that I was referring to the condition of those bridges, not the bridges themselves. Just because something is urban doesn't mean it does require upkeep. A simple coat of paint now and them would make things more aesthetically pleasing and would help protect those structures.

It drives me insane that the government will spend miles of dollars to build new infrastructure, but won't like a finger to maintain their investment. If your "urban" is trash and rust then you can have it. And you can have New York too.

thewayofthearch · PostMay 05, 2008#2582008-05-05T16:03+00:00

Yeah, railroads take a lot of goading to make improvements on their track and bridges that aren't neccessary.

It took some doing to get them to do the Kingshighway trestle south of 44.

Realize those are the railroads responsibility and not the governments.

conurbation · PostMay 05, 2008#2592008-05-05T18:13+00:00

TheWayoftheArch wrote:Realize those are the railroads responsibility and not the governments.

Too true. I understand that, but it shouldn't stop the City. I have a hard time believing that if the City approached the railroad and said they would sandblast and paint a couple bridges, that the railroads would stop them.

MattnSTL · PostMay 05, 2008#2602008-05-05T18:48+00:00

^You'd be surprised.

debaliviere · PostMay 05, 2008#2612008-05-05T19:13+00:00

Conurbation wrote:
TheWayoftheArch wrote:Realize those are the railroads responsibility and not the governments.

Too true. I understand that, but it shouldn't stop the City. I have a hard time believing that if the City approached the railroad and said they would sandblast and paint a couple bridges, that the railroads would stop them.

I think a neighborhood association approached Union Pacific about repainting the bridge over Kingshighway (near the Home Depot) a few years back and were shot down.

gone corporate · PostMay 05, 2008#2622008-05-05T19:22+00:00

Conurbation wrote:I have a hard time believing that if the City approached the railroad and said they would sandblast and paint a couple bridges, that the railroads would stop them.

To do so would require the railroad companies to reschedule their incoming and outgoing trains, with the potential of painting-related delays to extend rescheduling in a "Just In Time" Inventory business environment. Opportunity costs would be in the millions. Anything mandated to them for non-emergency measures would be fought. I think the City's more interested in keeping UP happy while not paying for large supplies of paint, the painters' wages, and the hassles of closing extensions of Broadway.

She may not be pretty, but if the trestle was unsafe, then Fed Transport officials would've shut it down long ago.

moorlander · PostMay 05, 2008#2632008-05-05T20:32+00:00

Who cares about making UP happy.?! They gave St. Louis a big F.U. a couple years ago.

gone corporate · PostMay 05, 2008#2642008-05-05T20:45+00:00

Moorlander wrote:Who cares about making UP happy.?! They gave St. Louis a big F.U. a couple years ago.

"Happy" was meant relative to the pejorative consequences of the trains not running on time. StL is still a hub for interstate rail commerce, and messing with the trains would have a spillover effect across industries and sectors state-wide.

brickandmortar · PostJun 09, 2008#2652008-06-09T15:40+00:00

Riverside rebirth

Chouteau’s Landing project will resurrect

20-block area now filled with vacant buildings

By Jim Merkel

Monday, June 2, 2008 11:30 AM CDT

New life may be coming to a moribund factory district south of the Gateway Arch where St. Louis founder August Chouteau may have landed.

The finishing touches are being put on a building at 756 S. Fourth St., where a new bar and restaurant called Bushwood opened last month.

That’s the first step in plans to transform the area bounded by the Mississippi River, Poplar Street on the north, Fourth Street and South Broadway on the west and Convent Street on the south.

In 2005, the St. Louis Board of Aldermen approved plans for the redevelopment of the 67-acre Chouteau’s Landing Redevelopment Area. Many of the 63 buildings on the 20 blocks of the property are vacant and the buildings are festooned with graffiti.

But beginning with the $40 million redevelopment of the 700, 800 and 900 blocks of South Fourth Street and a vacant five-story building at 217 Cedar St. called Powell Square, Chivvis Development plans to convert the area into a stylish commercial, retail, arts and residential district.

Link To Article

rbb · PostJun 09, 2008#2662008-06-09T16:59+00:00

Thanks for the story. A couple of things:

Many of the 63 buildings on the 20 blocks of the property are vacant and the buildings are festooned with graffiti

Picking at a minor nit - it should be noted that while much of the graffiti is malicious (such as that on the Powell Square building pictured in the story), a significant portion was commissioned as art. It's not all due to neglect.

"I’m not sure it’s going to really happen, but if it does, it’ll be a real boost to the south portion of downtown on the Near South Side," said Alderman Fred Wessels, D-13th Ward.

Why so negative? Things have moved slowly with this project, but I've seen nothing to indicate its future is in doubt. If anything, Chivvis has been very upfront as to the progress of the development, both on their website and via e-mail newsletters. Maybe he knows something we don't?

Powell Square was built largely with windows instead of walls, Harris said. "It could be a beautiful building again with that styling," she said.

I'm anxious to see an updated rendering of the Building - not sure if the '05 rendering is still accurate or not.

-RBB

shaneo69 · PostOct 01, 2008#2672008-10-01T14:02+00:00

Unfortunately, Bushwood is already closed down.

We were gonna stop in before the Cards' day game on 9/25, and there was a sign on the door that said they were closed.

dweebe · PostOct 01, 2008#2682008-10-01T19:00+00:00

shaneo69 wrote:Unfortunately, Bushwood is already closed down.

We were gonna stop in before the Cards' day game on 9/25, and there was a sign on the door that said they were closed.

Covered in this thread:

http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=4547&start=15

Supposedly the landlord didn't like their radio ads and pulled the lease.

metropobot · PostDec 15, 2008#2692008-12-15T23:37+00:00

Ok, there are at least 3 threads about Chouteau's Landing, just picked this one to add to. I received the following email today - go tell 'em what you want!

The Chivvis Development team is developing a sustainable business plan to ensure the longevity of the future Chouteau's Landing Art Center (CLAC). Part of this effort is a number of interviews with local artists and arts organizations. This research will help us identify missing niches in the St. Louis art market and ways CLAC can improve St. Louis' art offerings. One of the goals of CLAC is to incorporate a number of fine art workshop studios, such as a metal casting foundry, a wood shop, a darkroom and a printmaking studio.

However, it's no good to build an art center if no one attends, and it can't sustain itself. So, please take a few minutes to answer our SURVEY of 10 questions that deals specifically with the Workshop Studios we are in the process of researching.

If you are short on time, please logon to our website News page and let us know what you think the St. Louis art community is missing or any other pertinent details you would like to share about the project.

Truly, your opinion counts. All information collected will be used to earn support and funding for CLAC. So what you say will influence the final incarnation of this endeavor. Learn more about CLAC at www.clacstl.com. Or Email Stacey if you would like to talk directly with a member of our Research Feasibility team. stacey@chivvisdevelopment.com

dweebe · PostDec 16, 2008#2702008-12-16T00:05+00:00

Metropobot wrote:Ok, there are at least 3 threads about Chouteau's Landing, just picked this one to add to. I received the following email today - go tell 'em what you want!

The Chivvis Development team is developing a sustainable business plan to ensure the longevity of the future Chouteau's Landing Art Center (CLAC). Part of this effort is a number of interviews with local artists and arts organizations. This research will help us identify missing niches in the St. Louis art market and ways CLAC can improve St. Louis' art offerings. One of the goals of CLAC is to incorporate a number of fine art workshop studios, such as a metal casting foundry, a wood shop, a darkroom and a printmaking studio.

However, it's no good to build an art center if no one attends, and it can't sustain itself. So, please take a few minutes to answer our SURVEY of 10 questions that deals specifically with the Workshop Studios we are in the process of researching.

If you are short on time, please logon to our website News page and let us know what you think the St. Louis art community is missing or any other pertinent details you would like to share about the project.

Truly, your opinion counts. All information collected will be used to earn support and funding for CLAC. So what you say will influence the final incarnation of this endeavor. Learn more about CLAC at www.clacstl.com. Or Email Stacey if you would like to talk directly with a member of our Research Feasibility team. stacey@chivvisdevelopment.com

I think I'll ask them if all the art needs to be rated "G" so that the ownership is not offended and (as a result) the lease pulled?

urbanpioneer · PostDec 16, 2008#2712008-12-16T01:12+00:00

^ Yeah, I hate to say it but you're right. How can you possibly have an art center and then get mad when one of your tenant does something a little off-color.

I hope it was a fluke, but if the problem with Bushwoods is any indication of the landlord's mindset, this (re)development will never get off the ground.

rbb · PostDec 19, 2008#2722008-12-19T22:22+00:00

From the CLAC newsletter:

For inspiration, here are some TENTATIVE space plans for CLAC. These plans are in flux, and currently they do not include the site plans for the Sculpture Annex that hopes to include fine art metal casting, a metals studio and a wood shop. However, it's a peek at what we are working on behind the scenes.

TENTATIVE CLAC space plans - THESE ARE NOT FINAL!

-RBB

moorlander · PostDec 19, 2008#2732008-12-19T23:07+00:00

UrbanPioneer wrote:^ Yeah, I hate to say it but you're right. How can you possibly have an art center and then get mad when one of your tenant does something a little off-color.

I hope it was a fluke, but if the problem with Bushwoods is any indication of the landlord's mindset, this (re)development will never get off the ground.

I feel quite the opposite. Those Bushwoods ads were absolutely terrible. There are many ways to advertise without being perverted and low class.

threeonefour · PostDec 19, 2008#2742008-12-19T23:30+00:00

Moorlander wrote:There are many ways to advertise without being perverted and low class.

Someone should remind the people responsible for Hardee's ads.

moorlander · PostDec 19, 2008#2752008-12-19T23:43+00:00

UrbanPioneer wrote:

I hope it was a fluke, but if the problem with Bushwoods is any indication of the landlord's mindset, this (re)development will never get off the ground.

I never knew that successful developments couldn't be run by good people.

Historic Fourth Street at Chouteau's Landing

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