I kinda want to know how he has so much time to hit all these places. I don't think I could do it.
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Doug wrote:^I have to concede that point. That was a pretty big offense. He could have at least tagged the Century Garage.
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Doug never said anything of that sort in this thread, so it's not really fair to mock him like that.JCity wrote:oh, that's ok though because it's EVIIIIL CORPORATE AMERICA!!!
The absolute thinking I see on this forum (not necessarily you, JCity) that everyone who makes graffiti is instantly petty-loser-punk-vandal concerns me. Whether you approve of their methods or not, these people ARE artists, and they're probably expressing themselves in the only way they know how, or the only way they feel they'll be heard. It's a bit closed-minded to believe that all art must be neatly painted onto a 20x24 stretched canvas, so it can be displayed in the "proper" venues and then discarded as necessary.
Admittedly, some artists go too far by vandalizing historically significant buildings. But the vast majority of graffiti artists make use of already dead and decaying buildings. These are the canvas of the neglected city. They accumulate to form galleries, if you will, of city art. I ask you to step away from staunch property values the next time you look upon a new graffiti, even if only for a moment, to admire the fruits of human imagination. And even when you see those wretched little scrawls of tags, consider this: would we ever have evolved to produce the sistine chapel without cave drawings?
Your point is valid, but I think you are giving to much credit to most of these guys. A few of them may perceive themselves as artists, but there is no doubt in my mind that most of the losers running around St. Louis with spray paint and permanent markers wouldn't hesitate to tag the Sistine Chapel if given the chance. I think for guys like ed boxx, it is about WHERE he can make his mark, not WHAT he is trying to say. If he has a message, it is nothing more artistic than "look how audacious I am." Does that sort of boring, self-aggrandizing, simple message resonate with artists? Maybe he writes things like "fo-give yo-self" and "4-give," but what he is really saying is "ed boxx was here." Attention whoring and defacement of somebody else's work of art (like the Orpheum) is not interesting, or clever, or thought provoking. Think about how much more interesting the debate over graffiti would be if his message was "4 give me."
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brody wrote:Doug never said anything of that sort in this thread, so it's not really fair to mock him like that.JCity wrote:oh, that's ok though because it's EVIIIIL CORPORATE AMERICA!!!
The absolute thinking I see on this forum (not necessarily you, JCity) that everyone who makes graffiti is instantly petty-loser-punk-vandal concerns me. Whether you approve of their methods or not, these people ARE artists, and they're probably expressing themselves in the only way they know how, or the only way they feel they'll be heard. It's a bit closed-minded to believe that all art must be neatly painted onto a 20x24 stretched canvas, so it can be displayed in the "proper" venues and then discarded as necessary.
Admittedly, some artists go too far by vandalizing historically significant buildings. But the vast majority of graffiti artists make use of already dead and decaying buildings. These are the canvas of the neglected city. They accumulate to form galleries, if you will, of city art. I ask you to step away from staunch property values the next time you look upon a new graffiti, even if only for a moment, to admire the fruits of human imagination. And even when you see those wretched little scrawls of tags, consider this: would we ever have evolved to produce the sistine chapel without cave drawings?
I maintain the same with my flaming bags of crap.
For a now corporate guy, I used to run with a bunch of people that are, or at least were, well known in much of the StL subculture scenes, including underground hip hop and the general punk scene, and all that is included, inlcluding the proclivity of graffiti artists.
While I consider them artists, some of them masterful, I also consider them vandals who ruin people's sh*t. Those that do it for the sake of "artistic representation" on a building's walls are not as motivated to express themselves publicly, or to rebel against post-industrial capitalism, as they want personal attention and self-validation ("Look what I did! I mean something ... ).
I can be as artistic with my flaming bags of crap on my own front porch. When I put it on my neighbor's porch, it's vandalism.
From the CWE Association Weekly Security Update:
Several CWE residents have reported graffiti on garage doors in the last two weeks. Representatives of the SLMPD Gang Unit have viewed the drawings and determined they are not gang-affiliated. The detectives described the likely suspects to be teenagers attempting to show off their art skills. If you encounter graffiti on your property, please notify the police so they can determine whether or not it's actually the work of gang members. National studies focusing on the graffiti phenomena all conclude that the most effective way to combat the spread of graffiti is to have it removed as quickly as possible. You may contact Operation Brightside at 314-772-4646. Graffiti removal is free of charge but requires the request or consent of the property owner. Weather conditions will determine how quickly the graffiti can be removed. To learn more about graffiti and what you can do to help, please visit the following web site:
http://www.popcenter.org/problems/graffiti/1
Several CWE residents have reported graffiti on garage doors in the last two weeks. Representatives of the SLMPD Gang Unit have viewed the drawings and determined they are not gang-affiliated. The detectives described the likely suspects to be teenagers attempting to show off their art skills. If you encounter graffiti on your property, please notify the police so they can determine whether or not it's actually the work of gang members. National studies focusing on the graffiti phenomena all conclude that the most effective way to combat the spread of graffiti is to have it removed as quickly as possible. You may contact Operation Brightside at 314-772-4646. Graffiti removal is free of charge but requires the request or consent of the property owner. Weather conditions will determine how quickly the graffiti can be removed. To learn more about graffiti and what you can do to help, please visit the following web site:
http://www.popcenter.org/problems/graffiti/1
Word in the blogosphere is that Ed Boxx (aka Red Foxx, Rex Ram) was shot/stabbed and killed while painting on the east side. Also that Christo (another prodigious spray-painter) was shot at the same time and has a dim recovery prognosis. I haven't seen any news outlet report these things, though.
I am very saddened to hear this. The first display I ever saw of his is the one on the Page Avenue Metrolink Viaduct. If you take the Eastbound train, you will see "Bones is Dead, Ed Boxxx" and a really cool skeleton figure. It's really awesome! This guy will be missed.
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Good riddance to a public nuisance. Hopefully it was the owner of the property he was likely vandalizing that got him. I would have much rather he lived and gone to jail for many years, but this will at least keep downtown clean.bsever wrote:Word in the blogosphere is that Ed Boxx (aka Red Foxx, Rex Ram) was shot/stabbed and killed while painting on the east side. Also that Christo (another prodigious spray-painter) was shot at the same time and has a dim recovery prognosis. I haven't seen any news outlet report these things, though.
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Urban Elitist wrote:Good riddance to a public nuisance. Hopefully it was the owner of the property he was likely vandalizing that got him. I would have much rather he lived and gone to jail for many years, but this will at least keep downtown clean.
I'm sure that sellers of spray paint all over town are mourning the loss.
Doug wrote:I am very saddened to hear this. The first display I ever saw of his is the one on the Page Avenue Metrolink Viaduct. If you take the Eastbound train, you will see "Bones is Dead, Ed Boxxx" and a really cool skeleton figure. It's really awesome! This guy will be missed.
Yes: I love what he did at the old Federal Mogul site. Or when he painted on the Roberts Orpheum. I really enjoyed his work. It's his God given right to paint wherever he wants.
The vacant buildings were already derelict properties. He did something to them when the owner wouldn't. Broken windows theory: they were already broken. Want to complain? Then call the County owner of the property who is inviting taggers through mismanagement.
The fact he was able to tag downtown shows we don't have enough eyes on the street, whether citizens or police. It reveals we are not some busy 24/7 Downtown. Moreover, the Roberts Brothers initial solution, Home Depot Paint, shows once again their overly frugal nature.
Ed Boxxx didn't tag south side single family homes because he would get caught and also because that wasn't his intention. He tagged buildings which were either vacant, or prominent locations like Grace Lofts. The end result of this shows that our streets are not as thriving or safe as we might think.
Saying he should be dead indicates that you guys really belong in the gated communities of Chesterfield, not the City. It also shows a general misconception of what he was doing and where he was doing it. He tagged either derelict, forgotten buildings or locations which are supposed to be unattainable from a public safety standpoint. The fact that he could shows that once again Downtown isn't some densely populated area with continuous foot traffic or with adequate police patrols.
When it comes to these DT locations, ironically his disorder points out some of our shortcomings, while adding aesthetics.
But yes, now that he's gone you can rest assured and sleep safely. Your loft is no longer in danger of being violated, nor is your home in St. Louis Hills. Because those were always his main targets and where you saw his displays the most.
The fact he was able to tag downtown shows we don't have enough eyes on the street, whether citizens or police. It reveals we are not some busy 24/7 Downtown. Moreover, the Roberts Brothers initial solution, Home Depot Paint, shows once again their overly frugal nature.
Ed Boxxx didn't tag south side single family homes because he would get caught and also because that wasn't his intention. He tagged buildings which were either vacant, or prominent locations like Grace Lofts. The end result of this shows that our streets are not as thriving or safe as we might think.
Saying he should be dead indicates that you guys really belong in the gated communities of Chesterfield, not the City. It also shows a general misconception of what he was doing and where he was doing it. He tagged either derelict, forgotten buildings or locations which are supposed to be unattainable from a public safety standpoint. The fact that he could shows that once again Downtown isn't some densely populated area with continuous foot traffic or with adequate police patrols.
When it comes to these DT locations, ironically his disorder points out some of our shortcomings, while adding aesthetics.
But yes, now that he's gone you can rest assured and sleep safely. Your loft is no longer in danger of being violated, nor is your home in St. Louis Hills. Because those were always his main targets and where you saw his displays the most.
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^
I don't think anyone wanted him dead, but certainly a lot of people aren't shedding any tears over it.
Vandalism is vandalism.
I don't think anyone wanted him dead, but certainly a lot of people aren't shedding any tears over it.
Vandalism is vandalism.
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so the city of St. Louis needed spraypaint scholar Ed Boxx to point out our shortcomings. Gimme a f*cking break!
Look, if he is dead that is a tragedy from a human perspective. If it is so I am neither happy he is dead nor filled with grief. I wish he would have seen the error of his ways and stopped what he was doing, but apparently he didn't and went out doing what he loved (and what many of us on this board and in this city hate).
Sorry, but I will not miss his "work" and neither will the majority of the city residents who work, pay taxes, keep their properties in good shape, and don't like to see this kind of vandalism mar their city. I know you wish we would head to Chesterfield because we aren't cool enough for you, but I hate to break it to you. The city needs more of us than it does Ed Boxx!
Look, if he is dead that is a tragedy from a human perspective. If it is so I am neither happy he is dead nor filled with grief. I wish he would have seen the error of his ways and stopped what he was doing, but apparently he didn't and went out doing what he loved (and what many of us on this board and in this city hate).
Sorry, but I will not miss his "work" and neither will the majority of the city residents who work, pay taxes, keep their properties in good shape, and don't like to see this kind of vandalism mar their city. I know you wish we would head to Chesterfield because we aren't cool enough for you, but I hate to break it to you. The city needs more of us than it does Ed Boxx!
The fact he was able to tag downtown shows we don't have enough eyes on the street, whether citizens or police. It reveals we are not some busy 24/7 Downtown.
How do you come to these conclusions? Graffiti is in all big cities. The only thing it reveals is that he's a trespasser and has an ego that needs feeding.
He tagged either derelict, forgotten buildings or locations which are supposed to be unattainable from a public safety standpoint. The fact that he could shows that once again Downtown isn't some densely populated area with continuous foot traffic or with adequate police patrols.
He tagged private property & broke the law, pretty much end of story.
Saying he should be dead indicates that you guys really belong in the gated communities of Chesterfield, not the City.
So city residents don't deserve clean streets and buildings that aren't vandalized? We should all live in grime and spray paint? No thanks.
It also shows a general misconception of what he was doing and where he was doing it
Interesting, someone defaces private property with cryptic messages and nobody understands what he's doing. Those city dwelling Chesterfield wanna-bes are STUPID!
He did something to them when the owner wouldn't.
What, he renovated these buildings? I had no idea. Bottom line, it wasn't his place to do anything with buildings he didn't own.
His graffiti never targeted your south side property.
If you have a problem with graffiti on the North Side then you need to look to the slumloards, not the graffiti artist. Graffiti didn't compel people to leave the City, or own property in the City and let it depreciate.
If there is graffiti on the south side then it's either gang related or some 16 year old catholic school punk trying to be cool. There is a difference.
If you have a problem with graffiti on the North Side then you need to look to the slumloards, not the graffiti artist. Graffiti didn't compel people to leave the City, or own property in the City and let it depreciate.
If there is graffiti on the south side then it's either gang related or some 16 year old catholic school punk trying to be cool. There is a difference.
Doug wrote:His graffiti never targeted your south side property.
So what?!?!?! HE BROKE THE LAW!
Who cares if someone does graffiti on an abandoned building or railroad track? Maybe if this city had some real leadership, with real ordinances and wasn't so apathetic......there wouldn't be so many abandoned buildings to vandalize. I don't see people up in arms about the thousands of decaying buildings all over this town, that nobody seems to care about. Plus these guys got murdered! MURDERED! I hope whoever did it gets locked up and thrown under the jail. Who the hell deserves to be killed over a petty crime like tagging (whether the owner did it or not), when there is murderers, thieves, crooked cops and politicians running loose doing some real damage. Graffiti is one of the last things this city needs to worry about. Plus graffiti is not really a nuisance in this city anyway, ever been to Los Angeles, Miami, or New York...now thats when graffiti gets out of hand! When you see an abundance of it on operating buildings. Doug I would have to agree with you on this one.
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Doug wrote:His graffiti never targeted your south side property.
If you have a problem with graffiti on the North Side then you need to look to the slumloards, not the graffiti artist. Graffiti didn't compel people to leave the City, or own property in the City and let it depreciate.
If there is graffiti on the south side then it's either gang related or some 16 year old catholic school punk trying to be cool. There is a difference.
So I can't care about how my city looks because it wasn't my personal property that was vandalized? Could you be more patronizing?!?
I'm sorry but no matter how bad the building was neglected Ed Boxx has no right to trespass and deface said property. This is a democratic society and there are avenues for such grievances--did Ed ever attend any Aldermanic meetings? Probably not!
Whether or not you agree, graffiti in neighborhoods is a quality of life issue, and those issues are what keep people where they are...or force them to move. The city does need to worry about this along with garage break-ins, burglaries, etc, etc. I wouldn't live in the City if I had to see graffiti in my neighborhood.
It amazes me how people can defend the actions of someone who clearly overstepped his bounds.
As for those vacant buildings, I think there are plenty of people up in arms about those.
If St. Louis wants to really come back strong, it's going to take citizens getting involved in their communities to stop all this "petty" stuff.
It amazes me how people can defend the actions of someone who clearly overstepped his bounds.
As for those vacant buildings, I think there are plenty of people up in arms about those.
If St. Louis wants to really come back strong, it's going to take citizens getting involved in their communities to stop all this "petty" stuff.
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You know Doug, someday you will grow up and graduate college. When that day comes and you work hard to buy property, we'll see about how you feel when someone defaces it.
I've put my money were my mouth is in more ways than I care to discuss here with respect to DT revitilization. I'll be damned if I'm going to be happy that someone is hindering our progress by defacing private property.
Never did I say he should be dead. He should be in jail and working to pay back property owners, but I'm not shedding any tears over his passage.
I've put my money were my mouth is in more ways than I care to discuss here with respect to DT revitilization. I'll be damned if I'm going to be happy that someone is hindering our progress by defacing private property.
Never did I say he should be dead. He should be in jail and working to pay back property owners, but I'm not shedding any tears over his passage.
ExactallyDeBaliviere wrote:^
I don't think anyone wanted him dead, but certainly a lot of people aren't shedding any tears over it.
Vandalism is vandalism.