the story on fox said ____ will foot the $25M price tag and the city will maintain it thereafter (someone fill in the blank for me - i forgot who was mentioned). i'm not sure how accurate the info is considering what is mentioned on the KMOV link that someone posted above.
they estimated a summer 2009 completion date... maybe this will at least be done by the allstar game.
ntbpo wrote: Wow! I like those renderings, they somehow forgot to place the Larry Rice crowd with their hefty bags full of stuff laying around the property.
Those are the same renderings they released last year:
Framer wrote:Man, we've got to get rid of that Gateway One building.
What I would prefer to see is slim buildings built along the northern edge of the mall blocks, buildings that actually open up onto the mall, so that Gateway One doesn't appear to be sitting out there on its own. There would still be plenty of space left for the sculpture garden and other uses.
ntbpo wrote: Wow! I like those renderings, they somehow forgot to place the Larry Rice crowd with their hefty bags full of stuff laying around the property.
Maybe since it will be privately funded, we can hope it will be privately run. That way, we can keep trash out.
I don't think it can be overstated how much an amenity like this can do to attract buyers to expensive condo units. Nightlife is only one aspect of a vibrant downtown. There has to be amenities that welcome more traiditonal and mature households.
Not to encourage unfair comparisons, but this may place condos in downtown more squarely with similar units in downtown Clayton.
The plan may also represent one of several final puzzle pieces that will trigger a major resurgence in downtown retail.
How about using some sort of regional sales tax money to fund this? Much like the bike trail tax. It could be combined with the Riverfront/Arch grounds makeover. Perhaps we could also throw in projects on the St. Charles, Alton and East St. Louis riverfronts to increase the chance it would pass.
I love this, I hope it gets done. In my opinion this region would get so much done if we actually worked as a functioning cohesive region. Instead of Missouri vs. Illinois, Urban vs. Suburban, Black vs. White, Republic vs. Democrat......etc etc. Tbis is something I feel a city of almost 3 million should have had a long time ago! I mean look at our riverfront for example, does that look like a riverfront fit for even a city of 350,000 let alone a seperate county of over 1 million and a metro of nearly 3 million.
I do not live downtown, so I am unsure of how this will affect the area. However, does anyone other than me have a feeling that this will become a homeless hang-out just like all the other green spaces DT?
Is there any kind of plan to keep the GM clean and safe? What about well-lit? Do we REALLY need this to spend money on instead of taking that same money and revamping some buildings, improving the roads, etc.?
At some point, we have to stop improving the city look and aesthetics, and actually work on the actual product itself. I think the city LOOKS beautiful already, and putting a mall, although a nice thing, might not necessarily be as beneficial as other things might be.
drunkrusski wrote:I do not live downtown, so I am unsure of how this will affect the area. However, does anyone other than me have a feeling that this will become a homeless hang-out just like all the other green spaces DT?
This is why it needs to be privately run.
Or, at least if the city runs it, it needs 24 hour security and curfews enforced.
Which won't happen.
Which goes back to why it needs to be privately run.
There should be a concurrent effort to strengthen the edges around the Gateway Mall in order to make this project successful. I would suggest a reformatted base for the Bell Center, complete with a restaurant, or retail space. Plus, the GenAm building should be rehabbed (or demo'd if the replacement is of excellent quality) and turned into residential.
The very section of the mall that could fetch the highest price per square foot is ironically the same blocks where a glorified sculpture park is already philanthropically funded. If Centenne doesn't want to wait on Cordish, behind Gateway One sits a perfectly good alternative. Best of all, such sale could finance improvements to other sections of the Mall, including very worn Kiener Plaza.
Matt wrote:I don't think it can be overstated how much an amenity like this can do to attract buyers to expensive condo units. Nightlife is only one aspect of a vibrant downtown. There has to be amenities that welcome more traiditonal and mature households.
The problem is, they don't mention the risk of the potential/impending economic downturn. What will Civic Progress, Gateway Foundation, or whomever else be able to foot if what is likely to happen in fact does. Oh well, it's out of everyone's control really. It's not as if the Gateway Mall hasn't been dormant for a long while anyway. And at least there will be movement in one space.
I like the plan though, especially if they can address the other risks mentioned.
Framer wrote:Man, we've got to get rid of that Gateway One building.
What I would prefer to see is slim buildings built along the northern edge of the mall blocks, buildings that actually open up onto the mall, so that Gateway One doesn't appear to be sitting out there on its own. There would still be plenty of space left for the sculpture garden and other uses.
That's what they proposed back in the '80s, or whenever. It didn't pan out, and we got stuck with the biggest sore thumb right smack in the middle of what could be a truly spectacular urban park space.
Ballpark Village will get built, and it will do wonders for the density of the southern half of Downtown. And if/when they ever build the twin tower next to Bank of America, and fill-in a couple of the empty/underutilized lots east of the Eagleton Courthouse, then people will start to appreciate the value of an open, active Gateway Mall (well, not Doug, but most everybody else in town).
Between these blocks is the sculpture “Twain” by Richard Sera. One of his earlier works, the City is fortunate to have this often “misunderstood” sculpture.
HA! I'm sure they got paid a ton to say that.
Curious - has anyone actually read the document? No one seems to be addressing any of the points in it.
Generally, I really like it. It's very progressive, aggressive, and inventive. My biggest concerns with it are the "hallway" element, the total rejig of kiener, and the closing of chestnut between 15th and 18th.
I don't think the hallway integrates with the strip since it's on the far south side of the way, I'd prefer it be right down the middle, and I personally like kiener the way it is, it just needs to be utilized better. Also, closing roads never works in the long term - yet why do people keep insisting on it?
I can only hope that the politicians have the foresight to implement it. But sadly, I don't think they will.
Sure, it looks good on screen, but these are my concerns:
~Look at all the street parking they eliminated around the park. In an earlier post someone mentioned a resurgence in retail near this park. Eliminating all the street parking will certainly work against adjacent retail and will decrease the number of pedestrians in the area who may use the park.
~I don't see any hot dog carts, street vendors, restaurants, bike rental, or other uses in the rendering. This space is little more than a pretty place to walk around. Add some destinations in the park, and it will more likely be an active, highly utilized space.
~The density currently surrounding the park is not enough to make this space work like it does in the renderings. We need more high density mixed use around the park to promote utilization of the space morning and night 7 days a week. Otherwise, this will become the newest homeless haven. Tearing down Gateway One would only decrease the density even more.
I read the whole document, and for the most part I like what I read. I think the "hallway" idea is a good one and could effectively tie together the disparate elements of the mall and help make it a cohesive whole along its entire length. I also prefer the placement of the hallway on the south side of the mall to putting it in the middle because it won't have to veer off-course for Gateway One and because it is directly adjacent to the bike lanes on Market; I think this will make it more of an "active zone" with bikers, runners and walkers and it will seem more lively. The large spaces north of the hallway will also provide more room and flexibility for pavilions/cafes/etc than would be available if each section of the mall were bisected by the path.
I also really like the idea of putting satellite pavilions for existing cultural institutions along the mall (I assume they're thinking art museum/history museum/etc). I think this could be a real draw to the area. I would go a step further and have the city push to get a permanent cultural institution installed in the old Municipal Courts building (my dream is that the architectural museum we've been hearing about for years would land here rather than across the river, but I'd even be satisfied with a corporate-sponsored Cultural Center with temporary exhibits). This, along with a restored Kiel Opera House, would really bring a lot of life to the area year-round.
As for the loss of a few on-street parking spaces, I'm not at all worried about it; if there's one thing downtown has plenty of, it's parking. And hopefully the mall will attract a lot of pedestrians who live/work downtown and won't have to drive to get there. Most of the downtown Metrolink stations are an easy walk to the mall, as are most of the big residential projects happening right now.
A small part of me thinks since there was no real 'new news,' this may be pr/momentum-building to make the city more appealing to Brown Shoe.
(and a littler part of me thinks the ongoing delays in BPV are changes for an incentive proposal that includes Brown Shoe's 50-story 'vetical campus.')
After reading the whole document and analyzing it I can agree with its scope and presentation.
The hallway concept creates a visual and mental flow of the park as one cohesive whole instead of being broken up by cross streets.
The lightwands and little shelters along the path may seem neat today, but may become quickly outdated both in function and aesthetics. The same goes with the large sitting blocks that could be less square and wide and more rectangular with space for two people sitting back to back.
I love the idea of a sand volleyball court, variety of active playgrounds like rockclimbing or skateboarding or the new version of the jungle gym.
Overall, the Mall will not become a national hit or regional hit like Millenium Park in Chicago, but that's not what we need. We need a park that is attractive, usable, and fun. The Gateway Mall plan looks child friendly, teenager friendly (skateboarding), young adult friendly (rock climbing, volleyball court!), young professional (dog run), etc... Something for everyone and something most anyone can do without any additional equipment. > (baseball, basketball, etc ... sports require groups of people with special equipment to meet at scheduled times for limited time periods).
Additionally, the plan is flexible for future additions.
I'm still curious as to who, exactly, is going to maintain this parkspace? I know a private organization will run two blocks between 8th and gateway 1, but what about the other 12? Is this city run? We've seen the enforcement and maintenance they're capable of. Vacant land that's mowed looks better and more inviting than overgrown trees, bushes, and vandalized street furniture.
I know it's been mentioned before, but why not turn it over to the National Park Service? Is that not an option? We know they'd do a bangup job in making sure vagrants are gone, vandals are prosecuted, etc., and people are much more likely to feel safe on the park if a ranger is there instead of some purple shirted dude on a bike. The NPS has done very very well with the Arch Grounds & OCH, I see no reason why we shouldn't let them handle the Mall as well.
Wow! I like those renderings, they somehow forgot to place the Larry Rice crowd with their hefty bags full of stuff laying around the property.
