This is all fine, but walking along this stretch of the Mall the other day convinced me more than ever that the city could put a gold toilet in the middle of one of these 'parks' and no one would visit it because of the 100's of feet of roads one much cross! We simply do not need the capacity that these roads can handle. I believe that Market is at least 8 lanes here and intersecting numbered streets are nearly all four lanes of traffic with parking on both sides . . . it's too much pavement.
Who will maintain this stage once it's built? Will this become another piece of our bloated infrastructure that the cash-strapped City can't afford once it's built? Are taxpayers going to be on the line for even partially funding its construction? Also, does RibFest pay a fee for its use, being a for-profit endeavor? The Strassenfest, Hispanic Festival, and so forth have been quite successful all this time without a need for a permanent stage; why now? Is this the latest silver bullet in 'reviving' downtown?
That is all.
That is all.
I just can't make out very much from that little rendering. Can anybody post a larger image? And how about an overhead plan view?
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I find it ironic that the City can't even enliven the edges of their own parks and wanted to hand off Soldier's Memorial to the Feds, while at the same time, complaining how the Feds keep the edges of the Arch so dead and wanting to take control of parts of those grounds.
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That rendering appears to show the addition of many trees, both along Market Street and Tucker (including what appears to be trees in the Tucker median).
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Grover wrote:This is all fine, but walking along this stretch of the Mall the other day convinced me more than ever that the city could put a gold toilet in the middle of one of these 'parks' and no one would visit it because of the 100's of feet of roads one much cross! We simply do not need the capacity that these roads can handle. I believe that Market is at least 8 lanes here and intersecting numbered streets are nearly all four lanes of traffic with parking on both sides . . . it's too much pavement.
It's not too much pavement during any downtown event. As wide as those streets are, they are still jammed with traffic before and after baseball games, etc.
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Downtown STL Fan wrote:Grover wrote:This is all fine, but walking along this stretch of the Mall the other day convinced me more than ever that the city could put a gold toilet in the middle of one of these 'parks' and no one would visit it because of the 100's of feet of roads one much cross! We simply do not need the capacity that these roads can handle. I believe that Market is at least 8 lanes here and intersecting numbered streets are nearly all four lanes of traffic with parking on both sides . . . it's too much pavement.
It's not too much pavement during any downtown event. As wide as those streets are, they are still jammed with traffic before and after baseball games, etc.
We shouldn't build our city so that 81 times a year 40,000 people can drive to the stadium and then leave without serious traffic problems.
Downtown STL Fan wrote:Grover wrote:This is all fine, but walking along this stretch of the Mall the other day convinced me more than ever that the city could put a gold toilet in the middle of one of these 'parks' and no one would visit it because of the 100's of feet of roads one much cross! We simply do not need the capacity that these roads can handle. I believe that Market is at least 8 lanes here and intersecting numbered streets are nearly all four lanes of traffic with parking on both sides . . . it's too much pavement.
It's not too much pavement during any downtown event. As wide as those streets are, they are still jammed with traffic before and after baseball games, etc.
Seriously - the last several times I've been downtown on the weekends I've been able to cross Tucker and Market more than once without having to worry about there being a light to cross - there's simply no very much traffic. I've also been downtown during the week and there is still excess capacity for traffic around the Gateway Mall. If we want to build roads for baseball/football traffic, let's put in another couple lanes then people won't have to wait 15 mins to get on the Interstate, it will only be five!
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Is there any place to get a larger pic of the rendering??? I'm sure there is not but i thought I would try
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DeBaliviere wrote:That rendering appears to show the addition of many trees, both along Market Street and Tucker (including what appears to be trees in the Tucker median).
Frankly, I'd be more interested in seeing those improvements than the stage itself. Tucker Boulevard has plenty of excess capacity, so a median would make the area more attractive and make the crossings a bit safer for pedestrians IMHO.
Directorscut18 wrote:Is there any place to get a larger pic of the rendering??? I'm sure there is not but i thought I would try
From the Downtown Annual Report:
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Arch City wrote:
Does it look like the street right on front of the "stage", as well as the block in front of Soldier's Memorial, has been closed off or is it just a non-asphalt material?
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Looks closed off for the virtual festival to me. It interesting how things seem to always look brighter and more cheerful in a rendering! I say we just start releasing renderings of things that currently exist so that we can feel better about downtown!!!!
^I think its the streets. They are always so smooth, uniform and dark.
No cracks, asphalt patches, skid marks, oil stains, faded lane dividers or manhole covers.
Now,if we could just blacktop them every year.
Of course, it would smell like Six Flags.
No cracks, asphalt patches, skid marks, oil stains, faded lane dividers or manhole covers.
Now,if we could just blacktop them every year.
Of course, it would smell like Six Flags.
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^^^^ Now THAT'S a bandshell!!!! Too bad Lumiere isn't on the Mall!
I just can't make heads or tails of that rendering. For example, what's that bluish-green, glassy, curvy thingy over near Tucker? Is THAT the new bandshell? If so, why isn't it centered in the rendering? If not, what the heck is it?
Grover wrote:^^^^ Now THAT'S a bandshell!!!! Too bad Lumiere isn't on the Mall!
All these threads start to run together after a while... I blame the Plaza Square thread.
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I love how that rendering shows no pedestrians on sidewalks but in the interior path. Who needs sidewalks? And look at the lack of congestion on the street. I guess no one drives downtown. Well, they won't be coming down here for this waste of potentially developed urban land.
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Doug wrote:And look at the lack of congestion on the street. I guess no one drives downtown.
From my experience that's the only accurate part!
Ha!
The whole "lets not use sidewalks" is an outdated planning idea from urban renewal. They are there for a reason. We don't need to replace them. We need places for people to live, work, and dine, that surround the mall, and in some areas supplant the mall, thus sidewalks will be used because people are actually down there. Simply putting a pedestrian path through the mall will not make it any more attractive to pedestrians. If I want to walk through some green space I'll go to Tilles, Forest, or Tower Grove Parks. But whatever. I am doing a research project on the Gateway Mall. When I'm done I'll post it. You already know it isn't going to be praising the mall.
The whole "lets not use sidewalks" is an outdated planning idea from urban renewal. They are there for a reason. We don't need to replace them. We need places for people to live, work, and dine, that surround the mall, and in some areas supplant the mall, thus sidewalks will be used because people are actually down there. Simply putting a pedestrian path through the mall will not make it any more attractive to pedestrians. If I want to walk through some green space I'll go to Tilles, Forest, or Tower Grove Parks. But whatever. I am doing a research project on the Gateway Mall. When I'm done I'll post it. You already know it isn't going to be praising the mall.
Gateway Mall plan to be unveiled today
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
01/28/2008
City leaders will unveil a master plan today on the transformation of the Gateway Mall downtown.
Mayor Francis Slay will be among the city officials joining members of the Gateway Mall Steering Committee in the 1:30 p.m. announcement. They will be at the Civil Courts building, 10 N. Tucker Boulevard.
The Gateway Mall is a 1.2-mile strip of land from the Arch to Union Station.
Architects, city leaders and city officials are trying to energize the mall, which many believe never reached its full potential.
Check back to STLtoday.com for more details
Anybody hear what the plan is yet???
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Slay unveils Gateway Mall plan
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
01/28/2008
ST. LOUIS — Mayor Francis Slay unveiled this afternoon a plan to transform the city's “font lawn,” the Gateway Mall.
But while today's presentation was high on fan fare, specific details were sparse. Most of the design elements have already been shown to the public. With one key exception — an “urban garden” between Eighth and 10th Streets — none of the ideas has the necessary funding.
“We are beginning the process of making this vision happen,” Slay said in a news conference on the 12th floor of the downtown courthouse, which provides a sweeping view of the east side of the Gateway Mall.
Link
^Nothing new, except for this "font lawn" concept. That sounds interesting. I am a big fan of Verdana and CommercialScript, but I suspect they'll just go with Arial or Times New Roman...whatever, these people have no imagination whatsoever. Just please let there be no Wingdings - I hate Wingdings.
Slay quote from the article:
Any thoughts on how to raise this money (well other than the usual begging done for Forest Park)?
Is that Doug I see raising his hand in the back of class with an answer?
“This is all going to depend on our ability to raise substantial private money,” Slay said.
Any thoughts on how to raise this money (well other than the usual begging done for Forest Park)?
Is that Doug I see raising his hand in the back of class with an answer?