bonwich wrote:Portland, San Fran, Boston (and, to a lesser extent, Chicago). Perhaps it will happen here by the 22nd Century.
Aren't you being a tad optimistic?
Aren't you being a tad optimistic?
When I am 40 we might have another metrolink extension. When I am 60 we might have street cars.
I hear they've almost got one of these perfected over in McDonnell-Douglas hall -- except Larry diverted the funds to Majerus' salary.
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I went to the presentation on Tuesday. I didn't recognize anyone. I thought I would see the annoying "build on the mall" guy. I looked for someone who looks eerily similar to the cardinal pitcher that was recently on Alive (or is it st. louis) magazine.
joking aside.
I have to admit I was dissappointed. First off, I don't understand the need to have pavilions on the west AND east sides of the War Memorial building. There are at least two more pavilion structures along market too. Are we going to have major events every day of the year? When I see those pavilions I just think: Steel - nice, Glass - nice, tall - nice, modern - nice, there aren't enough people downtown to support this sh*t.
Second, why must we look at other North American cities for inspiration? It may help us to look at "developing" countries and see how they plan for large spaces. For instance, if you look at Argentina, Brazil, Uraguy, you will see that "open spaces" / MALLS are actually alive with people. There isn't a gimmick involved. The spaces are usually called Plazas. They are surrounded with shops, cafes, entertainment. I'm sure there are many of you who traveled abroad. What is your take on the "plazas"? Why is it that some "3rd world countries" lack the U.S. materialistic ideal but have functioning cores/plazas?
I think the silver bullet, as some have called it, is not going to work downtown. Believe me, I am not a pessimist, but you will NOT see the mall built in the manner it was presented. I firmly believe, this masterplan crap is a "screen" for the art sculpture garden proposed by the Gateway Foundation.
Bed time.
Rusted
joking aside.
I have to admit I was dissappointed. First off, I don't understand the need to have pavilions on the west AND east sides of the War Memorial building. There are at least two more pavilion structures along market too. Are we going to have major events every day of the year? When I see those pavilions I just think: Steel - nice, Glass - nice, tall - nice, modern - nice, there aren't enough people downtown to support this sh*t.
Second, why must we look at other North American cities for inspiration? It may help us to look at "developing" countries and see how they plan for large spaces. For instance, if you look at Argentina, Brazil, Uraguy, you will see that "open spaces" / MALLS are actually alive with people. There isn't a gimmick involved. The spaces are usually called Plazas. They are surrounded with shops, cafes, entertainment. I'm sure there are many of you who traveled abroad. What is your take on the "plazas"? Why is it that some "3rd world countries" lack the U.S. materialistic ideal but have functioning cores/plazas?
I think the silver bullet, as some have called it, is not going to work downtown. Believe me, I am not a pessimist, but you will NOT see the mall built in the manner it was presented. I firmly believe, this masterplan crap is a "screen" for the art sculpture garden proposed by the Gateway Foundation.
Bed time.
Rusted
I agree. LOTS of people. but WHAT is the draw? Unfortunately, this is TOO much greenspace for an area that is not dense enough with people for it to be active all the time. Look at where the dog park is, in front of Union Station/Post office, how far is that away from most city dwellers downtown? I think it needs to be in front of the Ford.
Again, I think it's a "nice" improvement, but this isn't going to pull tons of people in. And, just keep Kiener Plaza, maybe with some upgrades, and focus on the blocks west of Gateway One. The new "stage" east of Gateway One will see FAR LESS activity if they remove the KP and replace it with a stage that will only be used for special events. Will there be a band playing EVERY day of the week? Why don't the surround the plaza with cafe's? tables/umbrellas. a retro stage will last for two years, imho.
Again, I think it's a "nice" improvement, but this isn't going to pull tons of people in. And, just keep Kiener Plaza, maybe with some upgrades, and focus on the blocks west of Gateway One. The new "stage" east of Gateway One will see FAR LESS activity if they remove the KP and replace it with a stage that will only be used for special events. Will there be a band playing EVERY day of the week? Why don't the surround the plaza with cafe's? tables/umbrellas. a retro stage will last for two years, imho.
Just for the record, are they going to take down the current pavilion space in Kiener Plaza as part of this plan? Say what you will about the fact that some of the space is below street level, but I have always thought that the design of the red-roofed structures around Kiener is some of the best design in downtown. It links so well with the focus of the space, which is the Old Court House and Arch. Links much better than some silly video boards will...
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JMedwick wrote:Just for the record, are they going to take down the current pavilion space in Kiener Plaza as part of this plan?
Yep, it's gone.
JCity wrote: Look at where the dog park is, in front of Union Station/Post office, how far is that away from most city dwellers downtown?
this is absolutely right. Say somebody wants to exercise their dog for 15-20 minutes before work, why make them walk all the way over to the mall? There should be a pocket park closer to the loft district for this (although I have to say letting dogs crap on this part of the mall is a pretty good summation of how I feel about it).
Hmm. The most recent presentation used four spaces as examples for the "funding, maintenance, and operations" of the gateway mall.
Millenium Park
Bryant Park
Yerba Buena Gardens
Madison Square Park
So, what do these four parks have in common in terms of their design and surroundings?
Millenium Park
Bryant Park
Yerba Buena Gardens
Madison Square Park
So, what do these four parks have in common in terms of their design and surroundings?
There is some talk about putting a dog park in Lucas Park. Also, I'm not a fan of Kiener plaza. The bowl is hard, ugly and uninviting. Everyone has their opinions, but Kiener is quite uninspiring in mine.jefferson wrote:JCity wrote: Look at where the dog park is, in front of Union Station/Post office, how far is that away from most city dwellers downtown?
this is absolutely right. Say somebody wants to exercise their dog for 15-20 minutes before work, why make them walk all the way over to the mall? There should be a pocket park closer to the loft district for this (although I have to say letting dogs crap on this part of the mall is a pretty good summation of how I feel about it).
maybe they can rework the "ampitheater" in KP, but I think they should keep the fountain. It is ALWAYS an attraction for people, especially kids. a stage in this spot over the fountain is a complete joke if you ask me. Are there going to be round the clock acts performing? I doubt it. so during the business week, this area will be ANOTHER dead zone on the mall.. 
Build on the mall guy didn't want to waste his time and decided to let the visionaries decide the future of the mall.
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St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay and the Taste of St. Louis Organization plan to announce Thursday that they are working on developing a permanent entertainment stage along the block of Chestnut Street and Tucker Boulevard, just north of City Hall. St. Louis planning director Rollin Stanley said Tuesday that the stage would be a key element in the revitalization of the Gateway Mall. He said the city hoped it would spur greater use of the area, which is where such events as Strassenfest and the Hispanic Festival are held annually. Plans call for an attractive design that would include a permanent roof.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/c ... enDocument
definition of boondoggle from the OED:
A. n. A trivial, useless, or unnecessary undertaking; wasteful expenditure. B. v. intr. To engage in trifling or frivolous work. Hence {sm}boondoggler, {sm}boondoggling.
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^Not sure what that has to do with this announcement.
Wow! It took just 13 minutes after Scrutinizer posted this tidbit for the first naysayer to jump in and dump on it. Can't we at least wait to see what they have in mind before this idea is ridiculed?
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When I first heard this announcement my only wish was for something like the Pritzker Pavilion in Millennium Park. Unfortunately I fear we are too conservative and cheap to build such a grand performance space.
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southcitygent wrote:When I first heard this announcement my only wish was for something like the Pritzker Pavilion in Millennium Park. Unfortunately I fear we are too conservative and cheap to build such a grand performance space.
Agreed, on both points. Some of the renderings of the plan had some neat looking pavilions, much smaller than the Pritzker (which is fine). But who knows what will actually be built.
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Much of our parkland could go to better use, from Hudlin Park to blocks of Gateway Mall. Luckily, I now work for a city that understands how to execute a downtown land swap to go from full-block dead-zone parks to multiple, active pocket parks, thereby creating more vibrant mixed-use development, as well as added tax base, in the process.
Proposed Downtown Stage Project to Provided Permanent Entertainment Area Around the Soldier's Memorial
by Bob Moore, SLFP.com
![]()
Illustration of proposed Downtown Stage Project, north of City Hall, between Tucker Blvd. and 14th Street, will be know at the "Civic Room", as part of the Gateway Mall redevelopment plan.
ST. LOUIS, (SLFP.com), September 7, 2007 - The long anticipated announcement of a permanent entertainment stage as part of the Gateway Mall redevelopment project was unveiled today at St. Louis City Hall.
The proposed Downtown Stage Project is being spear-headed by a partnership between the City of St. Louis and Taste of St. Louis. Construction is expected to begin in September and be completed by fall 2008.
Following the press conference, Rollin Stanley, Director of Planning and Urban Design Agency, City of St. Louis, explained the concept of a permanent entertainment stage downtown.
"It will be called the Civic Room, an area where a lot of our celebrations occur already," stated Stanely. "We are trying to enhance it so that all these festivals like Taste of St. Louis, Strassenfest, Hispanic Festival and the RibFest, etc. can come in and use the stage. Suddenly, all the costs are greatly reduced because the infrastructure is already in place."
"They'll have places to plug-in and the water fixtures are already there," Stanley continued enthusiastically. "With the enhancement of Chestnut Street, eventually it will create an even better space to put up their pavilions, provide water and cooling elements."
Responded to a question regarding the move from Kiener Plaza, Stanley said that the Gateway Mall plan calls for an enhancement of Kiener Plaza to host larger, more static events that require performance space with a seated audience. "Here, you'll not see permanent seating in this civic room north of City Hall. This will be a more informal performance space very similar to what you see Taste doing now," stated Stanley.
The creation of a stage will depend largely on the success of a public fundraising campaign, which was kickoff today with a $25K donation from Fabick CAT matched with a $25K donation from Taste of St. Louis. Individuals and corporations will have the opportunity to purchase name placement on the stage for a nominal donation via the Golden Brick Campaign.
Organizers hope that this feel-good public relations campaign will provide an evergreen promotion drawing attention to the redeveloping area around the Soldier's Memorial and the Gateway Mall.
Next year, the Taste of St. Louis plans to set up in the new area, located two blocks north of City Hall. Organizers see the move as a way to expand the event.
"We are out of space now," said Mike Kociela, Entertainment St. Louis. "We have completely sold out all the available spaces at the Taste where we are now and we have five major corporate sponsors that are going to come on board next year."
Kociela stated that the new location near the Soldier's Memorial allows them to grow because the park space ranges from Tucker Blvd. all the way down to Union Station.
This year, the Taste of St. Louis, September 21 - 23, at the Gateway Mall, 8th and Market Streets, will feature 30 restaurants, live national acts, local band competition, culinary competition, activities for kids in the family zone and a massive artists village and a marketplace.
Source
by Bob Moore, SLFP.com
Illustration of proposed Downtown Stage Project, north of City Hall, between Tucker Blvd. and 14th Street, will be know at the "Civic Room", as part of the Gateway Mall redevelopment plan.
ST. LOUIS, (SLFP.com), September 7, 2007 - The long anticipated announcement of a permanent entertainment stage as part of the Gateway Mall redevelopment project was unveiled today at St. Louis City Hall.
The proposed Downtown Stage Project is being spear-headed by a partnership between the City of St. Louis and Taste of St. Louis. Construction is expected to begin in September and be completed by fall 2008.
Following the press conference, Rollin Stanley, Director of Planning and Urban Design Agency, City of St. Louis, explained the concept of a permanent entertainment stage downtown.
"It will be called the Civic Room, an area where a lot of our celebrations occur already," stated Stanely. "We are trying to enhance it so that all these festivals like Taste of St. Louis, Strassenfest, Hispanic Festival and the RibFest, etc. can come in and use the stage. Suddenly, all the costs are greatly reduced because the infrastructure is already in place."
"They'll have places to plug-in and the water fixtures are already there," Stanley continued enthusiastically. "With the enhancement of Chestnut Street, eventually it will create an even better space to put up their pavilions, provide water and cooling elements."
Responded to a question regarding the move from Kiener Plaza, Stanley said that the Gateway Mall plan calls for an enhancement of Kiener Plaza to host larger, more static events that require performance space with a seated audience. "Here, you'll not see permanent seating in this civic room north of City Hall. This will be a more informal performance space very similar to what you see Taste doing now," stated Stanley.
The creation of a stage will depend largely on the success of a public fundraising campaign, which was kickoff today with a $25K donation from Fabick CAT matched with a $25K donation from Taste of St. Louis. Individuals and corporations will have the opportunity to purchase name placement on the stage for a nominal donation via the Golden Brick Campaign.
Organizers hope that this feel-good public relations campaign will provide an evergreen promotion drawing attention to the redeveloping area around the Soldier's Memorial and the Gateway Mall.
Next year, the Taste of St. Louis plans to set up in the new area, located two blocks north of City Hall. Organizers see the move as a way to expand the event.
"We are out of space now," said Mike Kociela, Entertainment St. Louis. "We have completely sold out all the available spaces at the Taste where we are now and we have five major corporate sponsors that are going to come on board next year."
Kociela stated that the new location near the Soldier's Memorial allows them to grow because the park space ranges from Tucker Blvd. all the way down to Union Station.
This year, the Taste of St. Louis, September 21 - 23, at the Gateway Mall, 8th and Market Streets, will feature 30 restaurants, live national acts, local band competition, culinary competition, activities for kids in the family zone and a massive artists village and a marketplace.
Source