I think it's funny that there's a sign on top that says "Vintage Trolley", as if people can't make that conclusion on their own. By the way, I think the Portland trolleys were actually built in the '70s. I would much prefer the PCC streetcars to the Mr. Rogers trolleys, but beggars can't be choosers, I suppose.
^ Hopefully the upcoming Gateway Card can help do away with some of that nonsense.
For some reason I was thinking the trolley was going to be free. I certainly wouldn't pay to ride it, unless absolutely horrific weather dictates.
It seems most similar to the McKinney Avenue Streetcar in Dallas , which is free to ride and is more of a tourist line than actual transit. Both that and the Delmar trolley connect a couple of light rail stops to an adjacent entertainment district. Both have, or will have, mediocre hours and headways.
http://www.mata.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKinney_A ... _Authority
It seems most similar to the McKinney Avenue Streetcar in Dallas , which is free to ride and is more of a tourist line than actual transit. Both that and the Delmar trolley connect a couple of light rail stops to an adjacent entertainment district. Both have, or will have, mediocre hours and headways.
http://www.mata.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKinney_A ... _Authority
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Is the loop trolley fare system going to be incorporated into the metro line or will you have to buy a separate ticket to ride the trolley? I vaguely remember reading it is not.
The reason I ask is hopefully a major user of this line will be Wash U students. I teach lessons and I ask all my wash u students, did you know there was going to be a loop trolley.
they all said no,
they then say "cool! we never go east past the tivoli..."(they don't have cars.) though now I suspect they will walk down to the grocery store (reminds me to ask them) BUT most telling, I take them to PI once a semester, and every time, the say, "the only other time I was down here was LAST semester..."
They get excited to be able to take a trolley ALL the WAY west to Pi and other things down there. Then I say, "well did you know you will have to pay for it?"
"What? it isn't included with our metro pass?" (since all Wash U students pay a fee for unlimited use of bus and metro line - most take a metro bus over from main campus to the 560 music building - yes the metro bus has a line that goes right to the music building)
"nope" I say
"oh well I guess I won't use it..."
So I really hope that in fact, I'm wrong and that the Wash U students will be able to use a card to ride it for "free"
I suppose Joe Edwards or some advocacy group could get them to include the loop trolley in their student fees... that would work, but if those students have to get out money I don't think they will use the trolley nearly enough....
AND I love that roundabout at the end of delmar... if only we had more of them...
The reason I ask is hopefully a major user of this line will be Wash U students. I teach lessons and I ask all my wash u students, did you know there was going to be a loop trolley.
they all said no,
they then say "cool! we never go east past the tivoli..."(they don't have cars.) though now I suspect they will walk down to the grocery store (reminds me to ask them) BUT most telling, I take them to PI once a semester, and every time, the say, "the only other time I was down here was LAST semester..."
They get excited to be able to take a trolley ALL the WAY west to Pi and other things down there. Then I say, "well did you know you will have to pay for it?"
"What? it isn't included with our metro pass?" (since all Wash U students pay a fee for unlimited use of bus and metro line - most take a metro bus over from main campus to the 560 music building - yes the metro bus has a line that goes right to the music building)
"nope" I say
"oh well I guess I won't use it..."
So I really hope that in fact, I'm wrong and that the Wash U students will be able to use a card to ride it for "free"
I suppose Joe Edwards or some advocacy group could get them to include the loop trolley in their student fees... that would work, but if those students have to get out money I don't think they will use the trolley nearly enough....
AND I love that roundabout at the end of delmar... if only we had more of them...
^ Most Wash U students don't keep up with anything St. Louis related, or much of anything beyond their immediate academic/social commitments. It doesn't surprise me that they don't know about the trolley, but to hear people say they don't go past the Tivoli is more than a little embarrassing. I'm telling you, sometimes WU students act like they don't have functional legs
It would make sense to me that now with the Loop apartments that WU would subsidize the trolley stuff or just jack tuition up a little to cover the cost. Otherwise, yeah, you're right that it probably wouldn't get much traffic from students
It would make sense to me that now with the Loop apartments that WU would subsidize the trolley stuff or just jack tuition up a little to cover the cost. Otherwise, yeah, you're right that it probably wouldn't get much traffic from students
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Yes! I saw those on the MetroLink tracks between Scottrade and Grand.
Going off that picture--so general uselessness as a legit form of transport and high costs and all that aside... I just think it'll look pretty f-in cool when it's finally up and running. And there's something to be said for that at least.
No good news here
nextSTL.com - Loop Trolley Off the Rails, Bids $11M Over Budget Threaten Project’s Future
nextSTL.com - Loop Trolley Off the Rails, Bids $11M Over Budget Threaten Project’s Future
http://nextstl.com/2014/11/loop-trolley/nextSTL has learned that bids to construct the long planned Loop Trolley have come in $11M above budget, threatening to permanently derail the project. The amount is more than 25% above the trolley’s $43M stated budget. Current plans call for the project to be re-bid without substantial reengineering.
Time for the St. Louis transit projects and planners to get together and come up with a more encompassing plan and a list of priorities. It's clear these small semi-independent projects are going to struggle to get themselves funded.
And I know they all are aware of each other and have some overlap, but they're not truly planning together.
And I know they all are aware of each other and have some overlap, but they're not truly planning together.
That's pretty stunning. You think of Joe Edwards as being this savvy dealmaker who's got all the pieces together. Wonder if/how he can fix this.
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i don't understand how they managed to underestimate project costs by 20%, particularly given Chris Poehler's involvement. they're either going to have to scale the project back substantially or make an appeal to some deep-pocketed corporate benefactors. maybe they could sell advertising space on/inside the trolleys.
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Good thing they rushed to cut down those trees on Debaliviere. Sigh. This city is so frustrating sometimes. Even if I thought the loop trolley was a bad project, which I did, I wish this city/region would stop fighting itself, commit to a plan and follow it through.
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Eddie Roth condescendingly (as usual) reporting on Facebook that Alex blew it out of proportion:
The beauty of the digital age is that readers quickly can be alerted to weak news gathering and thinly incomplete reporting, thus giving the subject of a news story a fighting chance, even when a story is goosed by a sensational headline.
I am referring to nextSTL’s update, this afternoon, on the Loop Trolley project.
Chris Poehler is project manager and the single most knowledgable person on Loop Trolley plans, specifications, bidding process, construction budget and funding sources.
Reporter Alex Ihnen thus had the right man when he left a Facebook message for Chris just yesterday afternoon, asking: “Who would I talk to to get the latest on the loop trolley on or off the record? You? Someone else?”
The message was posted on Friday at 5:41 p.m., Chris tells me. Alex didn’t say he was writing on deadline. He didn’t say he needed a quick response. He didn’t tell Chris that he was working on a story in which he was planning to report that the Loop Trolley was “off the rails” financially, with the project’s future in dire jeopardy.
Chris quite reasonably planned to call Alex back on Monday.
nextSTL’s posted its story with no further notice to Chris Saturday afternoon.
The story correctly reports that construction bids for the project came back some weeks ago $11 million over estimates, a sum that -- if that were the whole story -- would represent a formidable hurdle for the project.
But that's not the whole story. There is more news, information without which nextSTL could not convey to its readers a fair and accurate picture of the status of the Loop Trolley, information the project manager would have explained to nextSTL had nextSTL given him fair notice and a fair chance to respond.
nextSTL reported that “[c]urrent plans call for the project to be re-bid without substantial reengineering.” That’s only partly true.
The project already has been rebid. There was no substantial reengineering. There were, however, a series of more modest engineering and scaling changes. When added up and taken together, they are expected to produce savings of about $2 million.
What’s more, under the project as rebid, work was broken into more pieces and in ways expected to generate more competitive bids. This already has paid off. Certain electrical work originally packaged as part of a single large “civil infrastructure” project element was spun off into a separate bid package. These bids already are back:
The low bid is $1.9 million less than the bid for he same work under the canceled bids.
More information will roll in this week and next.
Bids on the remaining parts of the “civil infrastructure” work are due on November 11.
Another part of what had been included in “civil infrastructure” bid package — power substations — was made a part of a separate package for the project maintenance facilities. Those bids are due on November 18.
Chris and the trolley project team , in other words, responded to bids that came in $11 million over estimates by rebidding the project, identifying about $2M in savings through modest changes, and reconfiguring how the work was bid in ways that already have yielded low bid savings of $1.9 million on the only work for which the bids are in.
The other bids will be in this coming week and the week after.
The project was organized in a way that anticipates that bids will come in over estimates. That’s why a $3.5 million contingency fund already is contained in the budget. That’s why good prospects exist for additional contingency funding to help ensure the Loop Trolley continues to chug up this steep hill be the little engine that can and will.
The tone of that actually doesn't bother me so much. I think he has a right to be a bit miffed if what he's saying is true. And that's not a knock on Alex necessarily either. Maybe we wouldn't have gotten a clear response if Alex didn't go through with the post.
In any case, if what Roth is saying is accurate, that's a positive for the project. Sounds like it's reasonable they could cut that $11 million over budget in at least half. Then make up a bunch of that with the $3.5 million set aside. Then they're just needing to come up with a bit more to pull this off.
Part of me wishes they'd call off the Loop Trolley and work on something more substantial, but the other part views a small positive as still a positive and wants to see it get done.
In any case, if what Roth is saying is accurate, that's a positive for the project. Sounds like it's reasonable they could cut that $11 million over budget in at least half. Then make up a bunch of that with the $3.5 million set aside. Then they're just needing to come up with a bit more to pull this off.
Part of me wishes they'd call off the Loop Trolley and work on something more substantial, but the other part views a small positive as still a positive and wants to see it get done.
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Appreciate Joe's resolve.
Interesting how different the reporting of the same details is. It's not moving forward at the moment. They've run into an obstacle that they hope and are confident they can overcome.
KSKD - Loop trolley project moving forward
Interesting how different the reporting of the same details is. It's not moving forward at the moment. They've run into an obstacle that they hope and are confident they can overcome.
KSKD - Loop trolley project moving forward
ST. LOUIS - It's full steam ahead for the Loop trolley project, at least that's what the organizers are hoping.
Initial bids came in $11 million dollars over budget.
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Post-Dispatch also is reporting the positive spin.
After the nextstl report I thought the National Blues Museum was all but certain to lose the Which Project Will Be Last to Begin Construction Race but now I'm not so sure again! Will please one of these projects just start already!
After the nextstl report I thought the National Blues Museum was all but certain to lose the Which Project Will Be Last to Begin Construction Race but now I'm not so sure again! Will please one of these projects just start already!
I just noticed we're just 6 months from this being a decade-long thread.
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At this rate, it'll be at ten years before construction 'finally' starts.
