If people are really going to stop going too the loop because of a trolly then thats very sad. As far as that business this guy should be praising the trolly not downing it has it serves a cause of reinvestment in the area also rejuvenates the surroundings around his business by giving those vacant spaces or struggling business's added property values & people bringing in people who would never have a reason to explore the loop..
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Trolleys were really bad for business. That's why you saw the Loop turn around like it did in the 60s and 70s.blzhrpmd2 wrote:How did small businesses do when streetcars littered the entire city?
It's ridiculous that people think the trolley is going to be bad for retail in the Loop. Reminds me of how everyone freaked out when Highway 40 shut down, as if was going to be the end of the world. I agree that the trolley line is far from an ideal concept (it should at least go to the CWE in my opinion), but I am very optimistic that it will ultimately enhance business in the Loop and will create even more vibrancy and bustle. It's a shame Good Works is calling it quits, but to blame an anticipated dip in business in part on the trolley (before it's even in operation!) is just silly. Trolleys and streetcars are actually pretty zippy and efficient. Yes, they run in traffic lanes, but they accelerate faster than big bulky buses, that's for sure. It's not like they're going to be causing a constant jam any more than buses do. When the trolley is up and running, I think all the naysayers will realize that they overreacted. Let's remember that the Loop was built by and for streetcars, so it's not like Delmar can't handle them. If urban streets are the veins of a city, then rail transit is the blood that flows through them and nourishes them. We're about to get streetcars back on our streets for the first time in almost 50 years-- we should be celebrating that and hoping that it's the first leg of many expansions to follow.
I don't think anyone is arguing that trolley is bad for business. What I'm willing to entertain is that it will it not be beneficial to all businesses and there is some basis for the owner's to claim as such. Retail and commercial is too diverse for generalities like everything else in the world
The reality or how I perceived it is that the Trolley's route and frequency is about the Loop as an entertainment district first and foremost. Maybe I got it wrong, but I don't see the loop as a transit system. Build the St Louis central corridor streetcar with extension into north and south St. Louis and we are talking a transit system that would compliment its area and metrolink.
The reality or how I perceived it is that the Trolley's route and frequency is about the Loop as an entertainment district first and foremost. Maybe I got it wrong, but I don't see the loop as a transit system. Build the St Louis central corridor streetcar with extension into north and south St. Louis and we are talking a transit system that would compliment its area and metrolink.
We've purchased several pieces of furniture from Good Works in the past and I just received a letter from them that they will be closing their store after 33 years in business as they have decided to retire. No mention of the trolley. I would surmise they believe the trolley would have negatively affected their business but it had nothing to do with the actual decision to close. I would also guess their failed try at opening a store on Wash Ave affected their view. As they probably saw more "tourists" at that location than potential buyers.
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^ One thing that I can see from businesses is concern over construction... iirc Delmar will not be shut down completely so it shouldn't be as bad as some other projects elsewhere but I can imagine some pains along the way. So far this whole project has been a pain in the butt so hopefully the actual construction phase will be a surprise and go smoothly.
You mean for the people trying to get it built?roger wyoming II wrote:So far this whole project has been a pain in the butt
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^ yeah.... part of it from their own shortcomings and part of it from people trying to stop it. Any word on a specific date yet on beginning work? Again this and Blues Museum are neck and neck to see who can actually start work first. Or not.
The RFT ran a story about the closing of Good Works. A quote from the owners:
"We're not happy with what we see," Navarro says. "It's a carnival on weekends here. There's no place to walk, there's no place to park."
Is this a joke?
"We're not happy with what we see," Navarro says. "It's a carnival on weekends here. There's no place to walk, there's no place to park."
Is this a joke?
I thought the part about the WashU Lofts was interesting. I was going to mention that as a possible factor here but it didn't exactly make sense--they've known the project was gonna go up for a few years now, and did they really think that WU wouldn't furnish them? Even if they hadn't, I know for a fact that the vast majority of students wouldn't be looking to furnish their temporary digs with their expensive products.
Though I suppose that's their point--that a heavily student populated place isn't good for their business model. Tough luck, I guess.
I was also struck by that "carnival" line. Boy do they sound really bitter about everything. Sorry but you either adapt to the changing environment or get out. Sucks for them but they should've seen it coming. Wonder what'll take the space.
Though I suppose that's their point--that a heavily student populated place isn't good for their business model. Tough luck, I guess.
I was also struck by that "carnival" line. Boy do they sound really bitter about everything. Sorry but you either adapt to the changing environment or get out. Sucks for them but they should've seen it coming. Wonder what'll take the space.
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"We're not happy with what we see. It's beginning to resemble a healthy city around here."stlgasm wrote:The RFT ran a story about the closing of Good Works. A quote from the owners:
"We're not happy with what we see," Navarro says. "It's a carnival on weekends here. There's no place to walk, there's no place to park."
Is this a joke?
Why are so many St. Louisans so f*cking regressive?
Thing is the area has already had many students living near by and the new WUSTL buildings replaced student apt buildings and empty lots. I'd think the students would buy some of their knick-knack or a rug or the like if not beds and dining sets.
You'd think United Provisions would attract some more of the long term residents they say the students are pushing away.
RFT - Good Works Furniture Store Closing, Says It's the "First Casualty" of the Delmar Loop Trolley
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... rolley.php
You'd think United Provisions would attract some more of the long term residents they say the students are pushing away.
RFT - Good Works Furniture Store Closing, Says It's the "First Casualty" of the Delmar Loop Trolley
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... rolley.php
^Good points.
Funny how they call themselves the "first" casualty of the trolley. Will be interesting to see if any others close and bear out their prediction.
Funny how they call themselves the "first" casualty of the trolley. Will be interesting to see if any others close and bear out their prediction.
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If so, then f-ck 'em. Weed out the useless businesses, let them go cluster together in some other area, and bring in some interesting newer ones. I'd love to see The Loop acquire:wustl_eng wrote:^Good points.
Funny how they call themselves the "first" casualty of the trolley. Will be interesting to see if any others close and bear out their prediction.
-Walgreen's with a group of other 24/7 businesses
-Strange Donuts
-Pappy's
-Orbit or Silver Ballroom
-Value Village or Goodwill
-Sweetie Pie's
-Margaritaville, Bubba Gump's, Planet Hollywood, Ed Debevic's, and/or Rainforest Cafe
-A real museum
-Imo's
-Parkour and other athletic entertainment
-Indoor karting, mini-golf, laser tag, etc.
-A cheaper grocery store like Save a Lot or Aldi (poor 20-somethings need access to cheap food) further down Delmar
-Dispensary once it's legalized (probably 2016)
There's no reason The Loop can't appeal to both residents and tourists. I intend to live there eventually, but would actually PREFER the trolley!
A couple thoughts:
Good Works is expensive. I liked their style and what they added to the Loop. But, I've been there many a dozen times looking for stuff but always ended up finding something in style/price range from Weekends Only instead.
Good Works sees the writing on the wall. Or at the corner of FFP and Vandeventer. They're trying to 'save face' and blame the trolley.
The whole thing smacks of bitterness but I think it's misdirected anger (like referred pain) My feeling is he wanted to be the "cool furniture place of St. Louis." But the St. Louis he knew didn't have a trolley, IKEA, and lots of international students. He didn't adapt to a "healthy city," lamenting the "days of malaise" when things were easier.
And whatever happened to Humble Abode? I liked that place way better.
Good Works is expensive. I liked their style and what they added to the Loop. But, I've been there many a dozen times looking for stuff but always ended up finding something in style/price range from Weekends Only instead.
Good Works sees the writing on the wall. Or at the corner of FFP and Vandeventer. They're trying to 'save face' and blame the trolley.
The whole thing smacks of bitterness but I think it's misdirected anger (like referred pain) My feeling is he wanted to be the "cool furniture place of St. Louis." But the St. Louis he knew didn't have a trolley, IKEA, and lots of international students. He didn't adapt to a "healthy city," lamenting the "days of malaise" when things were easier.
And whatever happened to Humble Abode? I liked that place way better.
I was talking with someone who knows the owners. I brought up the store closing and the first thing this person said was ' yeah, with IKEA coming they don't think they would last'.
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Yes. That's the real factor.imran wrote:I was talking with someone who knows the owners. I brought up the store closing and the first thing this person said was ' yeah, with IKEA coming they don't think they would last'.
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There's room for more than one furniture store in St. Louis, but I agree, this one is too expensive for students.
Clearly not many on this forum understand or respect the work that's involved in operating a small business for 3 decades. Old school business gals and ready to hang it up. Bottom line. Good for them for making a nut slanging high priced furniture for 30 years. As I said a couple pages back, durable goods have no place on the loop. It's becoming more on an open air mall concept. Seems cool to me.
Durable goods are goods that are held for longer than three years. Furniture and phones for the loop. Comic books, rocket pops, clothes, shoes, music...all consumable goods. That's very clearly what dominates the loop these days. Actually, I'd say the loop has changed dramatically in the 9 years since I lived there, but I'm good with it. Way more polished than it's ever been. The cheesy trolley only helps galvanize that image.
Durable goods are goods that are held for longer than three years. Furniture and phones for the loop. Comic books, rocket pops, clothes, shoes, music...all consumable goods. That's very clearly what dominates the loop these days. Actually, I'd say the loop has changed dramatically in the 9 years since I lived there, but I'm good with it. Way more polished than it's ever been. The cheesy trolley only helps galvanize that image.
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^ ah, thanks for clarifying the definition. in that case, yeah, not much in the way of durable goods.
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Just saw Mrs. Navarro, owner of Goodworks blaming the Trolley for the store closing, on
Ch. 2. As mentioned, the first thing that came to mind was IKEA. Fine if you want to save face, but there's no need to lie and blame the Loop Trolley. Stupid!
Ch. 2. As mentioned, the first thing that came to mind was IKEA. Fine if you want to save face, but there's no need to lie and blame the Loop Trolley. Stupid!
Personally, the ideal that the Loop trolley is the reason she is shutting down is ridiculous.
The trolley hasn't even started construction in front of her store. She hasn't felt any fall I sales because of it. I personally think she has a problem with Edwards, The Loop, and Ucity that is not being said. In addition, she has 33 years of biz, so why doesn't she retire or sell it off period. There is no other reason for her idiotic reasoning about the trolley EXCEPT for publicity to get people in her store sale and her opposition to the trolley system - nothing more. You cannot "Blame" something that hasn't come to fruition yet for your closing! Good grief. What a weirdo.
I should add - IKEA isn't even open yet either. Furthermore; if IKEA was "really" a threat to every store that features contemporary furnishings, you better shut down now! This is a big city, not Columbia, MO!
The trolley hasn't even started construction in front of her store. She hasn't felt any fall I sales because of it. I personally think she has a problem with Edwards, The Loop, and Ucity that is not being said. In addition, she has 33 years of biz, so why doesn't she retire or sell it off period. There is no other reason for her idiotic reasoning about the trolley EXCEPT for publicity to get people in her store sale and her opposition to the trolley system - nothing more. You cannot "Blame" something that hasn't come to fruition yet for your closing! Good grief. What a weirdo.
I should add - IKEA isn't even open yet either. Furthermore; if IKEA was "really" a threat to every store that features contemporary furnishings, you better shut down now! This is a big city, not Columbia, MO!
I noticed a couple of retro-looking trolleys at the Metro yard off the Metrolink line just west of Jefferson. Are these the new Delmar trolleys, or what?
