urbanSTL

Loop Trolley is in the process of hiring a director to lead the trolley operations.

Three vehicles
20 min frequency
Sun-Thurs 11-6pm
Fri-Sat 11-Midnight

In my mind this makes it a tourist attraction/gimmick and not a transportation alternative for residents or workers. Also, they are not going to be able to maintain a regular schedule unless the "trolley" has signal preemption. Delmar @ Skinker can take 4-5 cycles to get through the intersection at rush hour.

What would be better is if it was literally consistent with Metro and you could use a two hour pass to hope off the MetroLink and then ride the trolley.

This. And increasing frequency/expanding hours should be a priority.

1925:


2012:


Hopefully the next iteration will have the streetcar tracks back in place.

Sad that the whole row of buildings that were lost on the north side of the street.

What's the current estimate on the frequency of the trolley?

20 minutes

It's a NEIGHBORHOOD. It's not Disneyland! People gotta have furniture! And personally, if I ever own a small business, my #1 priority in terms of location is that it would need to be as close to transit as possible. MetroLink would be ideal, but the trolley is better than nothing!

23 years on the loop. Decides the trolley further solidifies the area as more of a tourist destination. Tourists, apparently, aren't big furniture buyers.

The Trolley, of course, is not an actual mode of mass transit for everyday STLers.

As a small business guy, I can see where this makes sense, guys.

What actual retail still exists on the loop that isn't meant to cater toward students? City Sprouts left a while ago. Maybe HSB and the flower place?

Basically the store owner is saying the Loop will turn into a complete yuppy/tourist trap when the trolley is completed. It will have a totally different ambiance that will travel east on Delmar past Skinker. I also imagine if he owns his building he will likely hold out for a big check from a mixed used developer. With the grocery and 24-hr diner and grocery being added, this totally changes the dynamic of the Loop from being a nightlife hub to a viable, mixed use neighborhood. I could definitely see some major TOD sprouting up along Delmar after this is built, specifically near the Metrolink station. It will also be a big tourist trap for many that come to St. Louis.

If it was really just about the trolley, I would think he would move to another location. As he's just closing entirely, I would guess the impending opening of IKEA is really more of a factor in his decision.

Good Works is in the U City-owned parking garage.

The Loop is an awesome neighborhood but could still use a Walgreen's. I'd love to see one of those and a few other 24 hr. businesses open up surrounding the Delmar MetroLink station, anchoring it as the middle of The Loop.

Gateway City wrote:The Loop is an awesome neighborhood but could still use a Walgreen's. I'd love to see one of those and a few other 24 hr. businesses open up surrounding the Delmar MetroLink station, anchoring it as the middle of The Loop.

I'd rather not see a Walgreens, aka the epitome of suburban sprawl. A pharmacy would be a good addition, but really, we can do a lot better than a Walgreen's.

^ I wonder if Globe could be convinced to open a location in the loop.

The owner of Goodworks wrote: "And in the end...adding trolley traffic to Delmar will only make access to retail stores more difficult."

It's an interesting perspective to have. Not one I wholly understand. I know small business owners often think they live and die by their convenient parking, but it's one thing to say: "the construction process will be a nightmare for loop businesses and their customers" because it very well could be. But to say the trolley itself will make access more difficult, especially coming from a business owner who is literally in a parking garage, is hard to comprehend.

blzhrpmd2 wrote:How did small businesses do when streetcars littered the entire city?

My grandfather always says that ripping up the streetcars was one of the worst things St. Louis ever did because it really hurt our retail corridors. At the time most citizens were absolutely appalled that they tore up the streetcar system but city leaders blindly preached the bus and highway propaganda. What made it even worst is that St. Louis failed to build a subway system, making an already congested city hard to navigate with and without an automobile. I would imagine that St. Louis probably would be more like Washington D.C. or Boston in stature if it had opted to build a subway system. It would have also made our densely built red brick neighborhoods, which were built for rail transit, easier to gentrify and overall more appealing.

Per the article, the owner of Goodworks has been in business 3 decades. That's no small feat. He has spent 20 years at the loop location. I would venture to say he's keenly aware of his market and feels the trolley has a negative affect. Again, I could see where he's coming from as the trolley doesn't actually serve as a viable mode of transportation above tourist schlock. In other words, most of his client base wouldn't use the trolley and may avoid coming to the loop as it continues it's genesis. It's interesting to note that virtually no durable goods stores exist on the loop, beside perhaps cellphones. Perhaps because of the continued student presence consumables have more of a market. Either way, another retailer will take it's place. I hope for an upscale clothing chain.

I disagree with idea the closing is because of ikea, unless his lease is long term and do for a re-up right now. It isn't often a business closes because of anticipated, reach forward loss several months from now; get while the getting is good. I always think it's funny when someone makes a comment about a business' performance based on their personal inability to afford what's sold there. That just means you can't afford it or you didn't like it! It's not a litmus test of his ability to turn a profit.

He could just be retiring.

ttricamo wrote:It's interesting to note that virtually no durable goods stores exist on the loop, beside perhaps cellphones. Perhaps because of the continued student presence consumables have more of a market.

i'm not sure how you're defining "durable goods" but if you just mean non-perishable, non-consumable goods then your statement is not true. Here's the list of stores in the loop:

http://visittheloop.com/all-stores/

In addition to cell phones there are a number of clothing stores, a record store, an art supply store, a book store, a video game store, a bike shop, a musical instrument shop, jewelry/craft/gift shops, a comic book shop, a board-games shop, another (budget, student-oriented) furniture shop, etc. Students buy durable goods as well, just not expensive furniture.

ttricamo wrote:Most of his client base wouldn't use the trolley and may avoid coming to the loop as it continues it's genesis.

This is the part of his (and I suppose your) statement that I don't really understand. Are people really going to avoid going to the Loop because it has a trolley? That seems far-fetched to me. Especially considering this business is literally in a parking garage. There is convenient parking directly above the showroom. Are trolleys offensive or off-putting to consumers in some way that I don't understand? Even if it does make the Loop more attractive to casual/pedestrian consumers, does that mean people making bigger ticket purchases will be repulsed?

"Oh no honey, let's not shop for furniture in the Loop. They've got one of those old-fashioned trolleys there. Yes, parking is convenient, but still... there will be people walking around going to restaurants, buying books, shopping for gifts and buying art supplies. You know... those smaller purchase types. We just won't fit in around them."

^ Wabash, I think it is a fair statement as you can estimate but really don't know the true impacts on traffic patterns until trolley starts operating, and yes someone shopping for expensive furniture might very well be coming down to the loop via car and say piss on it if he or she spends has to spend 10, 15 to 20 minutes getting in and out and up and down Delmar because of the stoplights, traffic lights, and trolley.

That being said, I think it is an easy out for the furniture store owner to blame it on the pending trolley. I think the Loop evolves, continues to evolve and might very well not be a good place for a furniture store that isn't catering to students and apartment dwellers. I also believe it says a lot by the fact that the store owner has decided to close and not open up somewhere else, maybe he is done, maybe he is tired.