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PostDec 08, 2022#676

I was told that number is because of the tons of LIHTC units that are sitting vacant along with the aging, sometimes low on parking and amenity, loft buildings around downtown. The newer products are doing well, it's the older stuff that's having issues. For some condos, it comes down to high condo association fees and aging units. This issue will slowly correct itself and vacancy will decline again in favor of occupancy. For now, I don't think it's anything to be too worried about.

That same report has Midtown at 10.3% vacancy and the Central West End at 11.9% for an overall Central Corridor vacancy rate of 15.6%.

If we go back and look at Q4 2021, vacancy was 12.1% Downtown, 21.3% in Midtown, and 7.7% in the Central West End for an average vacancy rate of 13.7%. So vacancy ticked up in the Central Corridor despite Midtown's vacancy rate plummeting. It's not a massive increase, but it's still not very nice to look at.

Now let's take a look at Kansas City's River-Crown Center-Plaza corridor (comparable to our Central Corridor). That had a combined vacancy rate of 9% in Q4 2020 (no link to Q4 2021) and in the Q3 report from Cushman, the area now has a 4.8% vacancy rate despite few new products coming online since the end of 2020.

The reason I bring Kansas City's data up is to verify my feeling that the higher vacancy rate isn't a bad thing. St. Louis has continued to build new housing within our Central Corridor during this timeframe and opened in a pretty good pattern with seemingly decent lease-ups. Kansas City, on the other hand, has not been doing the same. They might be building things now, but they weren't. Once their under construction projects open within that River-Crown Center-Plaza corridor, vacancy will increase. It's better to have more available units than fewer in order to meet demand and keep rent from rising too fast. 

St. Louis's higher vacancy means that rent increased within the Central Corridor from an average of 6.13% YOY in Q4 2021 to 5% YOY in Q3 2022. On the other hand, Kansas City had an average of -2% YOY in Q4 2020 where they now have an 8.3% YOY rent increase in Q3 2022 (net +6.3% over two years). In short, St. Louis is more steady, Kansas City is more of a roller coaster.

In the end, investors and banks will continue being bullish on these corridors within these two cities because new products do fill up and these areas remain desirable.

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PostDec 08, 2022#677

^ nice analysis, Chriss.  

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PostDec 08, 2022#678

Could someone clarify that the report includes condos? I looked at it and it seems to be all about rental units...

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PostDec 08, 2022#679

TalkinDev wrote:
Dec 07, 2022
There are different services and definitions of Downtown.  I'm looking at an industry standard data provider which specializes in apartments and they show 63 properties (6,900 units) between Chouteau & Cole, Interstate 44  & Jefferson.  Overall occupancy is 88% with an average rent of $1.35 per square foot.  This includes new properties leasing up (Ballpark Heights - 16% occupied, Front Page Lofts - 50% occupied) and "problem properties" (Mansion House, 415 units 65% occupied, this building alone is 6% of Downtown inventory).  Some notable buildings: Cardinal Way - 90% occupied, Park Pacific - 92%, Pointe 400 - 93%, The Laurel - 97%, Gentry's Landing - 98%.  Interestingly, Ely Walker is listed as 98% occupied.  Data is only as good as reporting and the research, so no one knows for sure.  So, comparisons are meaningful since reporting and errors are pretty similar across markets.  Kansas City Downtown (Downtown core with Rivermarket and Crossroads) has 116 properties and 9,500 units with overall occupancy of 91 percent, and an average rent of $1.66 per square foot.

A lot of the St. Louis Downtown inventory are larger loft-style units, without many amenities built 15-20 years ago, or large even older traditional apartment buildings.  The demand trend has shifted to smaller units with more amenities. So a lot of the inventory isn't competitive in the region regardless of the location.  Also, with the talk of lack of attainable housing in the city, we have 820 vacant units available in Downtown with an average market rent of $1.35 per square foot, or say $1,350 for a 1,000 SF 2BD unit.  According to HUD, this unit is affordable to households at 62% of area median income.
92% for Park Pacific is correct, i asked the building today (i live here) its always going to stay in the 90s as long as SLU LAW is next door 

Buildings that are having trouble are the ones that came online in the early 2000s and never updated,  CW looks as the CBD only but downtown as whole has many more units (as stated above) is probably in the high 80s. 

PostDec 08, 2022#680

JJ Taino wrote:
Dec 07, 2022
Numbers are correct! I’ve been trying to sell my property with no success! Whoever denies is lying  to himself. Downtown only gets crowded for certain events and even during those events is only parts of Downtown. People go to games for 2-3 hours thats it. People drive straight to Union Station and other attractions. There’s shootings every other. Thank God most of the time people don’t die. Lately a few kids have been killed. Car and businesses break-in are rampant and you can see the boarded front stores. You do not see patrols in Downtown ever, I’ve seen maybe three or four in a year. The shell gas station on Tucker near Washington is a drug dealing market. Poelker Park is a shooting (drug use) between the homeless and the few drug dealers. Is there projects that have help our Downtown of course, is there future projects that can continue to help of course. But this administration doesn’t do anything to help the backbone of the city and lives in an false Utopia that only gets them votes. This admin is clueless and have no creativity on how to better our Downtown. Sad!


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This isn’t about condos, nobody is buying anything anywhere right now with 7% rate. If you listen to sports radio you’ll hear mortgage bros begging people to come in and refi from 7.25 to 7 bc new loans aren’t coming. It will be this way until next summer

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PostDec 08, 2022#681

PeterXCV wrote:
Dec 08, 2022
Could someone clarify that the report includes condos? I looked at it and it seems to be all about rental units...
It probably does not, at least the one I quoted does not.  "Shadow" inventory is difficult to track in a comprehensive way.

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PostFeb 06, 2023#682

Why does The Bogen Lofts have 30 apartments available all of the sudden? 17 one Bed, 12 two beds, and 1 three beds. Did they increased their rents and people left or what’s going on here? Thanks in advance.


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PostFeb 06, 2023#683

Where do you see 30 units? Source? Also, if there’s any upcoming vacancies that doesn’t actually count towards physical vacancy.


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PostFeb 06, 2023#684

sudden?  Bogen has had a boat load vacant for a long time. 

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PostFeb 06, 2023#685

Should of uploaded link. Lol. Here it is.
It wasn’t this bad, hasn’t been this bad ever. This a huge drop. I always check Downtown West vacancies on Zillow and Realtor and this is the first time I’ve seen this huge gap. Something happened. If someone know please let us know.

https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/hjumie22


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sc4mayor
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PostFeb 06, 2023#686

^ There are 13 units “available today.”  The rest say “call for availability.”  Call and ask if you’re so desperate to find out…

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PostFeb 06, 2023#687

sc4mayor wrote:^ There are 13 units “available today.”  The rest say “call for availability.”  Call and ask if you’re so desperate to find out…
Do it for me. “Desperate” lol.. These keyboard warriors are something lol.


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PostFeb 07, 2023#688

This isn’t hard to understand, a lot of buildings that opened in early 2000s and haven’t yet updated will see spikes in openings as 1000s new units come online in downtown. And to make matters worse, the one way these buildings could keep their occupancy up is lower rent but they can’t do that, they have to do the opposite and raise it in order to fund updates.

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PostFeb 07, 2023#689

Sounds like this thread’s title might be misleading.

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PostFeb 07, 2023#690

JJ Taino wrote:Should of uploaded link. Lol. Here it is.
It wasn’t this bad, hasn’t been this bad ever. This a huge drop. I always check Downtown West vacancies on Zillow and Realtor and this is the first time I’ve seen this huge gap. Something happened. If someone know please let us know.

https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/hjumie22


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I only see 10 vacant units (total 114 units) which would be 91.2% occupied on Realtor. However, I think Bogen and Ventana (another 54 units)are managed together. So if these vacancies are between both properties, then it is 94% occupied. That’s pretty good considering those rents are pretty high at face value, but reasonable on $/sf.

Don’t rely on Realtor, go directly to the property by calling them and surveying them (good luck) or at least utilize their property website.


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PostFeb 07, 2023#691

dbehrens011 wrote:
JJ Taino wrote:Should of uploaded link. Lol. Here it is.
It wasn’t this bad, hasn’t been this bad ever. This a huge drop. I always check Downtown West vacancies on Zillow and Realtor and this is the first time I’ve seen this huge gap. Something happened. If someone know please let us know.

https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/hjumie22


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I only see 10 vacant units (total 114 units) which would be 91.2% occupied on Realtor. However, I think Bogen and Ventana (another 54 units)are managed together. So if these vacancies are between both properties, then it is 94% occupied. That’s pretty good considering those rents are pretty high at face value, but reasonable on $/sf.

Don’t rely on Realtor, go directly to the property by calling them and surveying them (good luck) or at least utilize their property website.


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Thanks! See people is not that hard to be professional. Thanks DB as well.


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