urbanSTL

I hope you don't take December 25th off of work, either, unless your company calls it "Winter Solstice" or something.



MattnSTL nailed it, private business and they can do what they want - if you don't like it, don't shop there. I would be more offended that someone was offended that I hung a crucifix up in my shop and would have the gall to complain than I would going to a grocery store that had a Jewish or Muslim symbol hanging up.



The over-sensitivity of some is not only annoying, but in cases like this, borderline scary.

JuiceInDogtown wrote:I hope you don't take December 25th off of work, either, unless your company calls it "Winter Solstice" or something.



MattnSTL nailed it, private business and they can do what they want - if you don't like it, don't shop there. I would be more offended that someone was offended that I hung a crucifix up in my shop and would have the gall to complain than I would going to a grocery store that had a Jewish or Muslim symbol hanging up.



The over-sensitivity of some is not only annoying, but in cases like this, borderline scary.

Absolutely. Not to hijack the thread, but c'mon...you're buying groceries. Really? Would it bother you if they had a Florida State Seminoles poster hanging up? It's just their belief about something, not suggesting that you must abide by those beliefs to be a customer...they'll gladly accept your money regardless of your religious (or non-religious) beliefs.

JuiceInDogtown wrote:
The over-sensitivity of some is not only annoying, but in cases like this, borderline scary.

Agreed.



I am offended by YOUR expression of your religious belief. Why? Thought we had evolved beyond that.



In case anyone wonders, I'm a non-believer and have been for longer than Matt has been on this earth, and I am really really tired of current anti-Christian bias that justifies someone to be offended (what the f*ck FOR?) by someone's else's religious expression.

"Also, no spicy bloody mary mix. Meh"



They have Zing Zang...That's about as spicy as bloody mary mix gets.

I never said offended. I said inappropriate. I believe religion is a very personal thing and unless it comes up (such as this thread) I don't talk about it or care to talk about it with others except those who are close to me. Also, I hardly think a Florida State Seminoles poster is the same as a crucifix.



I am allowed to express my opinion just as much as they are and I did. Nothing about being overly sensitive about anything. But so what if I was? I'm free to feel whatever I feel. I don't need your approval.



And, yes, I do take off for Christmas. What makes you think I don't celebrate that holiday?



Finally, and most importantly, I did get the Zing Zang and it's great. I will buy it again. However, I never had it before and when I asked for spicy bloody mary mix the Culinarian in the liquor department said they didn't have any.

I think the crucifix is inappropriate because it's a non-sectarian place of business. I have no problem with it in someones home or someones place of worship but it makes me not want to shop there.

I noticed it too. I'm basically agnostic and it's kind of funny that it's so prominently displayed but if you don't like it, don't shop there. It is their PRIVATE business so it doesn't bother me at all. The idea that you would MAKE them take it down is insane. This is a FREE country. If the owners want it up, why do YOU think you have the right to make them take it down? have you read the constitution? shocking..

JCity wrote: This is a FREE country. If the owners want it up, why do YOU think you have the right to make them take it down? have you read the constitution? shocking..

I'm not sure how BL telling the manager that he thought the crucifix was inappropriate constitutes "mak(ing) them take it down"



Unless BL is some sort of government official who abuses his power to force Culinara to take down the crucifix, then the Constitution doesn't apply.



The Constitution does give BL the right to express his opinion to the manager. He is also free to shop elsewhere.



To try to somewhat re-direct this back to the store itself, I finally made it to Culinara last week & I will second most of the positive things I've read here.



Very friendly staff, better selection than I expected & most of all it "felt" like a grocery store. To be more specific, it felt like what Saint Louisans are used to in a grocery store. I've always felt like we were a bit "spoiled' here in STL by Schnucks & Dierbergs. You'd be surprised by what they settle for in some other cities. I think that's part of the reason Wal-Marts w/ grocery stores inside spread so quickly.



Best of all, not only is it what we're used to here in STL, but it adds a bit of an urban feeling to the norm. The tables outside along w/ the fresh produce on the sidewalk really bring a lot of life to the area. All that & I never even made it upstairs. I definitely think Culinara will be a huge piece of downtown's continued comeback. Their success will give other merchants that much more confidence when deciding whether or not to open a DT location.

The Schnucks at Arsenal has a crucifix above each door. I think it's a cool nod to the neighborhood.

Matt Drops The H wrote:If a Muslim managed the store and put up religious symbols, you'd likely have a controversy brewing.

1. I really don't think so. Maybe some hoosiers from JeffCo coming in after a baseball game might say "Well dah-gummit, they's Mooslums!" But for the most part, no, I don't think so.



2. If you told a Muslim that you want them to take their symbols down, they would probably boot your ass out of the store.

JCity wrote: The idea that you would MAKE them take it down is insane. ... If the owners want it up, why do YOU think you have the right to make them take it down?

Wow. Where did you get that idea?

Notes from Home wrote:I'm not sure how BL telling the manager that he thought the crucifix was inappropriate constitutes "mak(ing) them take it down"

Exactly.

erina wrote:The Schnucks at Arsenal has a crucifix above each door. I think it's a cool nod to the neighborhood.

Same manager.

Matt Drops The H wrote:... If a Muslim managed the store and put up religious symbols, you'd likely have a controversy brewing.

Probably not controversial in your eyes would be my guess. Bet you'd celebrate that diversity.

a crucifix can also represent institutionalized intolerance. of course they have every right to put it there, but in doing so they ostracize certain customers.

Was the building or any of the building ever used for any Catholic organizations? Wasn't there a hardware store or locksmith in a deconsecrated store downtown at one point?

The Culinaria received a nice mini-infomercial during yesterday's Cards game. Mr. Shannon is a great downtown booster (and as a downtown business owner, he has good reason to be).

urban_dilettante wrote:a crucifix can also represent institutionalized intolerance.

Explain...not that it matters, but it explain. It could be that the manager is a Christian, too...but no, I'm sure it's "institutionalized intolerance."

urban_dilettante wrote:of course they have every right to put it there, but in doing so they ostracize certain customers.

Read previous 10 or so posts.

GelatinousEndive wrote:Probably not controversial in your eyes would be my guess. Bet you'd celebrate that diversity.

Awesome example. It's only diverse when it's something non-white, anti-or-at-least-non-Christian.

GelatinousEndive wrote:He may also behave like a self centered boor who is afraid of anything different.

So I'm a self-centered boor for expressing my opinion? Isn't that what you all are doing here every day?



I'm also not sure where you got the impression that this is something different for me and/or something that I would be afraid of.

Can this crucifix discussion be part of the crap that's left behind when the forum is moved



I didn't notice it when I went to the Culinaria, but I do know the Arsenal Schnucks had several similar items and it never bother me a whit. I'm not particularly religious but I think they are cool.



But everyone has their own opinion and if it bothers them enough I guess they can choose to shop elsewhere.



However "controversies" like this are sort of amusing because as silly as I think one side is in being offended, I think it's just as silly that suddenly Bill O'Reilly types are calling on white Christian males like myself to suddenly feel victimized and persecuted just like in the so called "war on Christmas" and the "I want my America back" stuff you hear from pasty old upper middle class suburbanites at the town hall meetings.



Really?

A couple of weeks ago, I was in Kansas City and stopped in to Cosentino's food market in downtown KC at the Power and Light District. Then last weekend I checked out Culinaria. There are a lot of similarities, and some differences.



I didn't see a pharmacy in Cosentino's, and the store was more spread out with a high ceiling and some kind of designer lighting. It had a huge salad bar, and I could see a lot of ready made food, just like Culinaria.



We were at Cosentino's on a Fiday evening, so it wasn't packed. But they were doing a decent business. They also had an upstairs area for on-site dining, it appeared. It seemed more like a Strawbs than a suburban grocery store. I think they get 3 hours free parking to shop there. I'm not sure where the 17K or so people they say are living in downtown KC reside, so I don't know how convenient it is to those residents.



Culinaria seems perfectly placed for downtown STL residents. Culinaria was very busy when we checked it out on a Sunday evening. It seemed more like a noisy active big grocery store in terms of selection but shrunk into to a much smaller space. I walked upstairs just to see the wine and dining area. Culinaria seemed more like the midtown grocery stores I've been to in Boston or Vancouver, but with more classy things, like the upstairs and ready-made food. Kind of a no-nonsense place for people to shop for any kind of food item they can think of. Well lit and convenient. And reasonably priced from what I've heard.



Both stores filled a glaring need for their downtowns. Sounds like the next need is a movie theater in the heart of downtown St. Louis. Are there any old theaters in any of the buildings that could be renovated for movies?

^there was talk of putting a movie theatre in the Jefferson Arms building at Tucker and Locust I believe. Not sure where that stands now though.

JuiceInDogtown wrote:

urban_dilettante wrote:a crucifix can also represent institutionalized intolerance.

Explain...not that it matters, but it explain. It could be that the manager is a Christian, too...but no, I'm sure it's "institutionalized intolerance."]

well, it probably won't matter to you until you're on the receiving end of the intolerance. i'm aware that "it could be that the manager is a Christian, too" - i endured 13 years of catholic schooling after all. it just so happens that some christian denominations perpetuate certain modes of intolerance, e.g. women can't serve as clergy, gays go to hell, etc. are you going to try and deny that? i didn't say the manager necessarily espouses those beliefs, but they are wrapped up in the symbolism of the crucifix. i'm sorry if you don't like to hear it but, hey, my opinion doesn't matter anyway. right?

urban_dilettante wrote:

JuiceInDogtown wrote:

urban_dilettante wrote:a crucifix can also represent institutionalized intolerance.

Explain...not that it matters, but it explain. It could be that the manager is a Christian, too...but no, I'm sure it's "institutionalized intolerance."]

well, it probably won't matter to you until you're on the receiving end of the intolerance. i'm aware that "it could be that the manager is a Christian, too" - i endured 13 years of catholic schooling after all. it just so happens that some christian denominations perpetuate certain modes of intolerance, e.g. women can't serve as clergy, gays go to hell, etc. are you going to try and deny that? i didn't say the manager necessarily espouses those beliefs, but they are wrapped up in the symbolism of the crucifix. i'm sorry if you don't like to hear it but, hey, my opinion doesn't matter anyway. right?

So McDonald's falls into this same category because they market Filet-o-Fish sandwiches to Catholics during lent, right?