Downtown Grocers: Culinaria and City Gourmet

bonwich · PostFeb 20, 2008#3262008-02-20T17:34+00:00

innov8ion wrote:This is funny because I emailed Schnuck's last nite asking them to fix their website so you could access it via schnucks.com and not just www.schnucks.com. I also asked them about plans for the Schnucks downtown and I received a reply this morning that stated their has been much speculation but no announcements. It's funny that their public affairs people seem a bit disjointed.

No "announcement" has been made yet, so their pr folks are right in line with the official Schnucks stance.

tysalpha · PostFeb 20, 2008#3272008-02-20T17:36+00:00

I guess some people can never be pleased.

After all the whining that there isn't a good place to grocery shop downtown. Now that Schnucks is recognizing the market, suddenly they are 'the bully'.

Let's remember that Schnucks is a LOCAL business too. I'd much rather give them my business than Wal-Mart.

chrisindowntown · PostFeb 20, 2008#3282008-02-20T17:37+00:00

Somewhere it has been stated, (PLEASE correct me if I am wrong), that City Grocers has never been profitable for Loftworks. I am not sure of the exact circumstances. However, in my opinion, I think that if they were able to survive their first year or two, when any business struggles, and they didn't have much resident business, then they'll survive this. However, it does look like Schnucks is going after their deli business, which is where they really succeed in my opinion. Time will tell I guess, but props to them for their vision in that Schnucks would choose a location a block away from what they chose 5 years ago or whenever they opened. Too bad, CG...but good luck wherever they end up.

thewayofthearch · PostFeb 20, 2008#3292008-02-20T17:53+00:00

The entire City Grocer concept was simply to be a stop gap amenity until a full service grocer took the plunge. While I, and others, may have grown fond of it over the years, the key here is that it served its purpose. If they feel they want to move and continue on, great, but a full service schnucks is a net gain even if they close.

Loftworks opened it only because the lack of a grocer seemed to be the main deterrent to buying a loft. It was created only to reinforce the DT loft market.

Call schnucks whatever name you want, but this was essentially the plan from the beginning.

MattnSTL · PostFeb 20, 2008#3302008-02-20T18:11+00:00

I think the best part of this announcement may be that a full service pharmacy will return to downtown. There is also no longer the where do you shop question, even though grocery stores were closer to loft dwellers than their suburban counterparts to start with.

jmedwick · PostFeb 20, 2008#3312008-02-20T18:21+00:00

WayoftheArch outlines the situation pretty clearly. Craig Heller and Loftworks started City Grocers as a loss leader to sell more lofts. With Schnucks entering the market combined with back to back years of record setting condo sales, it is clear that City Grocers did exactly what it was intended to do.

That said, I still think there are emerging areas of both downtown and the City as a whole that could use the City Grocers concept to spur further development.

With the projected additional commercial/ office growth as part of the redevelopment in the Cupples Warehouses and the new Ballpark Village construction, downtown south of Market is very much an emerging market for infill residential development. Adding a City Grocers would simply add to the amenities in the area and, if Loftworks was interested in pursuing such options, provide the type of loss-leader that might increase the likelihood of new residential development.

Downtown west, particularly near the 2020 Lofts offer opportunities for infill construction and some new historic rehab. A grocery in the area would further both.

Further west, the Auto Row area is emerging as a residential area with opportunities for future historic rehabilitation. This area too could use such a loss-leader.

That said, with the lack of office workers in both Downtown West and the the Auto Row area, I still think south of Market is the best option.

moorlander · PostFeb 20, 2008#3322008-02-20T18:21+00:00

Moorlander wrote:great news, too bad it's still another 2 years off.

CG to MX?

stl63101 · PostFeb 20, 2008#3332008-02-20T18:33+00:00

I think it is going to be an eye-opener for many when Schnucks actually opens it's doors on this new concept. Their prices will be the same as City Grocers and their deli will be the same if not slightly lesser quality. THey are not going to stock the shelves with Schnucks brand merchandise. Have any of you been to the Schnucks in Frontenac? I am very glad Shnucks is opening a store downtown just for the perception of a traditional grocery store to the masses of St. Louis, but I for one will continue to support our local City Grocers as they have been down here for almost as long as I have. I just hope Schnucks brings something unique and special to our neighborhood so both businesses can survive!

dweebe · PostFeb 20, 2008#3342008-02-20T18:47+00:00

STL63101 wrote:I think it is going to be an eye-opener for many when Schnucks actually opens it's doors on this new concept. Their prices will be the same as City Grocers and their deli will be the same if not slightly lesser quality. THey are not going to stock the shelves with Schnucks brand merchandise. Have any of you been to the Schnucks in Frontenac? I am very glad Shnucks is opening a store downtown just for the perception of a traditional grocery store to the masses of St. Louis, but I for one will continue to support our local City Grocers as they have been down here for almost as long as I have. I just hope Schnucks brings something unique and special to our neighborhood so both businesses can survive!

...and Schnucks isn't local?

mophipsi · PostFeb 20, 2008#3352008-02-20T18:54+00:00

I like City Grocers as much as the next guy, but I really think Schnucks needs to be commended for coming downtown and doing business in the City for that matter. Dierbergs refuses to open any stores int he city blaming the payroll tax. Schnucks has shown a commitment to the city with their new Loughborough store and now this.

Yes, this will be more of a boutique, but it will be much larger and be able to offer more than city grocers can. I hope they can coexist and quite frankly competition in the market is usuallya good thing for consumers. Instead of finding negatives about Schnucks I personally we should all say "thank you" by shopping there and showing tha tthey made the right decision.

Implying that Schnucks is not a local business is ludicrous...

Also, when Heller opened City Grocers he did ity because there was no other grocery store downtowna nd when he asked prospective loft buyers what their one concern was with living downtown, it was the lack of a grocery store, so he put it in, originally it was not meant to be a long term solution, but rather an effort to help stabilize the neighborhood. It worked and now Schnucks has seen that it can work. I think an ideal solution would be for Heller to move a little further west to Ely Walker or another building west of tucker to serve the downtown west residents.

the central scrutinizer · PostFeb 20, 2008#3362008-02-20T19:00+00:00

STL63101 wrote:Their prices will be the same as City Grocers and their deli will be the same if not slightly lesser quality.

The CG deli doesn't carry Volpi salami (except in the way over-priced shrink wrapped packets). The Schnuck's deli does.

Schnuck's wins.

dweebe · PostFeb 20, 2008#3372008-02-20T19:10+00:00

I wonder if the city is going to put any restrictions on the liquor sales? For example no single cans of beer.

I noticed the P-D article said the wine department will be in an upstairs mezzanine. I assume this will be so they can restrict the liquor area and have an extra layer of security.

sshoe · PostFeb 20, 2008#3382008-02-20T19:19+00:00

When CG initially opened they were losing money, but in the past year or two has gotten back in the black. I will be surprised if the City Grocers, as we know it, will remain. I could see it moving westward, but I could also see it rebrand itself. Either way, I don't think Heller cares that much. He's in the business of selling condos and the Schnucks will only make that easier.

There is also no evidence to suggest that the prices at Schnucks will be the same as CG. In fact, I seriously doubt that will be the case. Schnucks, like any large retailer, can offer goods at lower prices due to their advantages in distribution. I would also anticipate prices to be lower in a bigger store. Larger store sizes can allow more sales volume, hence higher prices in a 6,000 sf store versus a 20,000 sf store.

innov8ion · PostFeb 20, 2008#3392008-02-20T19:22+00:00

^^ Above and beyond what's already in effect with City Grocer's? BTW, I'm glad they don't serve alcohol at the Shell just north of Washington on Tucker.

the central scrutinizer · PostFeb 20, 2008#3402008-02-20T19:29+00:00

dweebe wrote:I wonder if the city is going to put any restrictions on the liquor sales? For example no single cans of beer.

I would hope Schnuck's would put that restriction on themselves. They would be wise to do so.

dweebe wrote:I noticed the P-D article said the wine department will be in an upstairs mezzanine. I assume this will be so they can restrict the liquor area and have an extra layer of security.

I would advise them not to offer any sort of recycling either. Or if they do, put it out back by the loading dock.

Safeway in Portland made the mistake of offering aluminum recycling. So they had smelly bums dragging bags of cans in there at all hours of the day. And a lot of merchandise walking out with them.

So when they tore down that store (called the "Scary Safeway", by the locals) and replaced it with a high rise with a Safeway on the first level, they put all the recycling out back so the bums never came in the store. Losses went way down, and sales went way up (from people who refused to shop at the old location).

bl211 · PostFeb 20, 2008#3412008-02-20T19:46+00:00

If City Grocers moves, I fully expect it will be in VERY CLOSE proximity to a new Loftworks Development.

jlblues · PostFeb 20, 2008#3422008-02-20T20:01+00:00

^Thanks. I was biting my tongue on that one...

As far as I know, Loftworks has no projects in downtown south of Market, so why would they move there?

bonwich · PostFeb 20, 2008#3432008-02-20T20:10+00:00

Our story has been updated. I'm not sure this little tidbit was in the early version:

Although Schnucks announced plans for the store, the project is contingent upon the Board of Aldermen's passage of legislation allowing for reimbursement on a portion of the project cost over time.

dweebe · PostFeb 20, 2008#3442008-02-20T20:14+00:00

Anyone else thinking of dorking out and heading to the press conference?

jmedwick · PostFeb 20, 2008#3452008-02-20T20:25+00:00

Don't right now jlblues, but that can change. There are plenty of vacant parcels south of downtown if Loftworks decided to pursued infill development. Besides, if as other have said, City Grocers really is making money, there may be some incentive to choose a location that offers the opportunity for that to continue. I am not sold downtown west is that location right now.

They do have the Moon development west along Delmar, so based on current developments they have some incentive to move west. But we all know that none (west or south) offers the density of Loftworks developments that are currently within a 5 minute walk of City Grocers (Syndicate, 315 Lofts, Bell Lofts, Ludwig Lofts, Louderman).

downtown stl fan · PostFeb 20, 2008#3462008-02-20T20:25+00:00

bonwich wrote:
innov8ion wrote:This is funny because I emailed Schnuck's last nite asking them to fix their website so you could access it via schnucks.com and not just www.schnucks.com. I also asked them about plans for the Schnucks downtown and I received a reply this morning that stated their has been much speculation but no announcements. It's funny that their public affairs people seem a bit disjointed.

No "announcement" has been made yet, so their pr folks are right in line with the official Schnucks stance.

Funny that you cut out the portion of Innov8ion's post that said the announcement would occur AFTER 4:00 PM today.

That aside, I'm really pleased with this announcement and I don't think it necessarily will be a blow to City Grocers. I currently frequently use City Grocers for my shopping but also buy groceries at several other stores, including Dierberg's, Schnuck's and Trader Joe's. I don't see that having a Schnuck's downtown will mean I won't shop at City Grocers anymore, but it will certainly cut into the portion of my business I do with Dierberg's and Trader Joe's.

I'm just sorry to hear the new Schnuck's won't be moving in until late this year as now I probably owe Innov8ion a six-pack if the sky bridge gets torn down over Washington anytime before the new Schnuck's opens! Of course, that's anyone's guess, too!

bonwich · PostFeb 20, 2008#3472008-02-20T20:47+00:00

Downtown STL Fan wrote:
bonwich wrote:
innov8ion wrote:This is funny because I emailed Schnuck's last nite asking them to fix their website so you could access it via schnucks.com and not just www.schnucks.com. I also asked them about plans for the Schnucks downtown and I received a reply this morning that stated their has been much speculation but no announcements. It's funny that their public affairs people seem a bit disjointed.

No "announcement" has been made yet, so their pr folks are right in line with the official Schnucks stance.

Funny that you cut out the portion of Innov8ion's post that said the announcement would occur AFTER 4:00 PM today.

Ahh, but I didn't. Innov8ion did, as he'll attest. Note that his original post has now been edited twice since he posted it.

innov8ion · PostFeb 20, 2008#3482008-02-20T23:07+00:00

dweebe wrote:Anyone else thinking of dorking out and heading to the press conference?

I went because I'm sick with the flu at home and it was just a few blocks away. No shaking of hands for me! It was a nice press conference. Much better than the last one I randomly saw while obtaining a replacement driver's license. Lieutenant Governor Peter Kinder was there, along with the Mayor, Comptroller and members of the Schnuck family.

bonwich wrote:Ahh, but I didn't. Innov8ion did, as he'll attest. Note that his original post has now been edited twice since he posted it.

Yes, good ol' Joe was quick to the punch. I edited it shortly after initially posting it, but Joe got me! And I put the time in there because it had already been posted in the St. Louis Business Journal that it was happening yet Schnuck's would not confirm it until after the press conference. It seems kind of silly to the outsider, but business formality is business formality I suppose. It made the press conference all the more special, I tell you.

downtown stl fan · PostFeb 20, 2008#3492008-02-20T23:08+00:00

bonwich wrote:
Downtown STL Fan wrote:
bonwich wrote:

No "announcement" has been made yet, so their pr folks are right in line with the official Schnucks stance.

Funny that you cut out the portion of Innov8ion's post that said the announcement would occur AFTER 4:00 PM today.

Ahh, but I didn't. Innov8ion did, as he'll attest. Note that his original post has now been edited twice since he posted it.

My apologies, Bonwich. I've edited posts myself but didn't realize you could tell they were edited afterwards. I'm surprised Innov8ion edited the time, though, since it was announced in the Business Journal blurb that an announcement would be made at the new store location at 4:00 today.

xing · PostFeb 20, 2008#3502008-02-20T23:10+00:00

New specialty food market to be established in downtown St. Louis

04:49 PM CST on Wednesday, February 20, 2008

http://www.kmov.com/localnews/stories/k ... aa78c.html

St. Louis, MO (KMOV) - Schnucks will establish a grocery on the lower level of a new parking garage, and across the street from the old post office on 9th Street near Olive.

Civic, state and city leaders turn out for their first viewing of what will eventually be a new, small urban food store and specialty market.

It is over 20,000 square feet and owners say the time is "right" for a major grocer to move into downtown.

Downtown Grocers: Culinaria and City Gourmet

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