Downtown Grocers: Culinaria and City Gourmet

jmedwick · PostOct 19, 2009#10762009-10-19T13:36+00:00

Matt Drops The H wrote:Ugh. I hated when SLU students referred to the Lindell Schnucks as "ghetto Schnucks".

It clearly has only to do with the fact that middle class white people so seldom interact with working class black people in the St. Louis region. They're not used to people who look different from them (i.e. are not blond and wearing NorthFace).

Or maybe the store is fairly known as "ghetto Schnucks" because the quality is crap (my recollection).

threeonefour · PostOct 19, 2009#10772009-10-19T17:02+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:They must have improved it, because I've seen enough crazy/disgusting/outrageous s--- there over the years to have made the decision to never go back.

Don't you know you're supposed to tolerate that stuff to be a "real" city resident and/or supporter?

I've haven't been there much, so I don't know whether it's improved. Maybe it has. It'd be nice to see improvements at the South Grand location as well.

Alex Ihnen · PostOct 19, 2009#10782009-10-19T18:21+00:00

ThreeOneFour wrote:Don't you know you're supposed to tolerate that stuff to be a "real" city resident and/or supporter?

hugh ferriss · PostOct 19, 2009#10792009-10-19T22:54+00:00

throatybeard wrote:I am, in fact, passing the Lindell Schnucks to get to Culinaria, but that's becuase Culinaria is 2 blocks from the 8th & Pine Metro, not because I'm afraid there might be some poor people at Lindell.

Culinaria is cheaper than Straub's and more convenient/greener than making extra car trips all over the place.

The proximity of the 8th & Pine Metro stop is a major reason why I've started frequenting Culinaria, though I haven't noticed many other people getting on the train with their groceries. There again, as I don't work downtown, I've only been to the store on weekends; they may get more business from commuters during the week.

I still regularly shop at Straub's in the CWE for convenience (I've been going there for 20 years), but Culinaria is infinitely preferable to the Dierberg's in Brentwood, and the prices appear to be identical to those at Schnuck's stores in the County (even if the selection is inevitably more limited). No doubt many downtown residents and workers spend far more at Culinaria than I do, but the few hundred dollars I've spent there in the weeks since it opened is probably more than I spent "east of Grand" in the preceding decade.

Alex Ihnen · PostOct 20, 2009#10802009-10-20T02:50+00:00

Hugh Ferriss wrote:the few hundred dollars I've spent there in the weeks since it opened is probably more than I spent "east of Grand" in the preceding decade.

Now that's fantastic to hear!!!

lukethedrifter · PostOct 20, 2009#10812009-10-20T06:03+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:They must have improved it, because I've seen enough crazy/disgusting/outrageous s--- there over the years to have made the decision to never go back.

If you haven't shopped the Schnucks at Grand and Lee you haven't seen anything.

I'm pretty sure they never closed it because they dump old product there.

brickandmortar · PostOct 20, 2009#10822009-10-20T06:30+00:00

^Agreed. When I lived in ONSL, I only shopped there two or three times and that was for staples. Well, unless you wanted to buy bagels, since they didn't have any.

Worse was driving 10 miles roundtrip to a grocery store. The opening of City Grocers was a welcome relief.

throatybeard · PostOct 20, 2009#10832009-10-20T07:05+00:00

Matt Drops The H wrote:Ugh. I hated when SLU students referred to the Lindell Schnucks as "ghetto Schnucks".

It clearly has only to do with the fact that middle class white people so seldom interact with working class black people in the St. Louis region. They're not used to people who look different from them (i.e. are not blond and wearing NorthFace).

QFT.

jdstl1977 · PostOct 21, 2009#10842009-10-21T19:43+00:00

throatybeard wrote:
Matt Drops The H wrote:Ugh. I hated when SLU students referred to the Lindell Schnucks as "ghetto Schnucks".

It clearly has only to do with the fact that middle class white people so seldom interact with working class black people in the St. Louis region. They're not used to people who look different from them (i.e. are not blond and wearing NorthFace).

QFT.

This has nothing to do with the 'truth'. The Lindell Schnucks is ghetto because it's GHETTO. It's poor people. It's not 'working class black people. Every time I go in there it's too crowded and I get assaulted by the smell of body odor and/or alcohol. There's more trash in the parking lot than other Schnucks stores. The one at Grand and Kossuth is cleaner and more orderly albeit leaner on inventory than the Lindell Schnucks. Aldi's and Save-A-Lots and Shop n' Saves are all cleaner and more orderly and brighter than the Lindell Schnucks and are filled with white, hispanic, asian, and black working class people.

stl63101 · PostOct 21, 2009#10852009-10-21T20:03+00:00

Watch Channel 4 news tonight at 10 for a story about the effect Culiaria's opening has had on the small restaurants in their vicinity... Let's see how they spin this story

Alex Ihnen · PostOct 21, 2009#10862009-10-21T20:56+00:00

jdstl1977 wrote:
throatybeard wrote:
Matt Drops The H wrote:Ugh. I hated when SLU students referred to the Lindell Schnucks as "ghetto Schnucks".

It clearly has only to do with the fact that middle class white people so seldom interact with working class black people in the St. Louis region. They're not used to people who look different from them (i.e. are not blond and wearing NorthFace).

QFT.

This has nothing to do with the 'truth'. The Lindell Schnucks is ghetto because it's GHETTO. It's poor people. It's not 'working class black people. Every time I go in there it's too crowded and I get assaulted by the smell of body odor and/or alcohol. There's more trash in the parking lot than other Schnucks stores. The one at Grand and Kossuth is cleaner and more orderly albeit leaner on inventory than the Lindell Schnucks. Aldi's and Save-A-Lots and Shop n' Saves are all cleaner and more orderly and brighter than the Lindell Schnucks and are filled with white, hispanic, asian, and black working class people.

Shopping alongside poor people has never bothered me.

matt drops the h · PostOct 21, 2009#10872009-10-21T21:57+00:00

jdstl1977 wrote:
throatybeard wrote:
Matt Drops The H wrote:Ugh. I hated when SLU students referred to the Lindell Schnucks as "ghetto Schnucks".

It clearly has only to do with the fact that middle class white people so seldom interact with working class black people in the St. Louis region. They're not used to people who look different from them (i.e. are not blond and wearing NorthFace).

QFT.

This has nothing to do with the 'truth'. The Lindell Schnucks is ghetto because it's GHETTO. It's poor people. It's not 'working class black people. Every time I go in there it's too crowded and I get assaulted by the smell of body odor and/or alcohol. There's more trash in the parking lot than other Schnucks stores. The one at Grand and Kossuth is cleaner and more orderly albeit leaner on inventory than the Lindell Schnucks. Aldi's and Save-A-Lots and Shop n' Saves are all cleaner and more orderly and brighter than the Lindell Schnucks and are filled with white, hispanic, asian, and black working class people.

I've been to the Lindell Schnucks many times. I can't say I've observed any of what you have. I have been asked for money in the parking lot, but so too have I at Shop N Save in Bevo and even the Schnucks in Hampton Village. I never have any of these problems when I go to Local Harvest, strangely.

You don't have a monopoly on "truthful" anecdotes either. I contend that it's a rare place in St. Louis where white middle class people regularly interact with black working class and poor people. If you can name me another, it's likely also the "ghetto" version of its category too. You're correct to point out that it's not 100 percent race-driven; it's much more of a class thing. But the two are difficult to separate too.

dweebe · PostOct 21, 2009#10882009-10-21T23:10+00:00

I don't think its a question of race. I just think there's a lack of consistency with Schnucks stores. Like I've said before there's some stores they just don't seem to give an eff about and Lindell is one of them.

The right store manager and a slight remodel could really straighten the place up.

Alex Ihnen · PostOct 22, 2009#10892009-10-22T00:07+00:00

^ I'm guessing that you haven't been there in a while? Or perhaps you just think that they need another remodel after their remodel this past year. That might be fair.

downtown2007 · PostOct 22, 2009#10902009-10-22T00:18+00:00

Again, I dont think the Lindell Schnucks is that bad. I wouldn't classify it as ghetto.

Alex Ihnen · PostOct 22, 2009#10912009-10-22T00:43+00:00

So...it would be nice to have this retail area reinvisioned with street front retail and hidden surface or garage parking. The area surrounding this store has changed greatly over the past few years and with Culinaria it's obvious that Schnuck's can think differently if they see opportunity. With more growth likely coming in Midtown and the eastern CWE it would be nice to see more thinking that goes behind the cookie-cutter stores of the past 20 years.

matguy70 · PostOct 22, 2009#10922009-10-22T03:53+00:00

Let's focus here - please start a new thread to continue Lindell CWE Schnucks conversation. thank you.

bl211 · PostOct 22, 2009#10932009-10-22T14:32+00:00

I watched the report last night on KMOV and I agree that the situation is certainly not fair and I sympathize with the owners of the affected businesses

I'm curious... has anyone seen any advertising or marketing efforts from any of these businesses? Things are changing fast everywhere and you can't expect anything to stay the same (at least) without some additional effort.

zink · PostOct 22, 2009#10942009-10-22T15:16+00:00

BL211 wrote:I watched the report last night on KMOV and I agree that the situation is certainly not fair and I sympathize with the owners of the effected businesses.

Which businesses did the mention are being effected?

chiheaddoc · PostOct 22, 2009#10952009-10-22T16:13+00:00

It mentioned Baladas, Espresso Mod, and Planet Sub as being A-ffected (not effected...sorry, pet peeve)...

bl211 · PostOct 22, 2009#10962009-10-22T16:17+00:00

Off the top of my head...

The owner of Baladas was on camera and said his business is down 50%.

The owner of Espresso Mod was quoted as saying his losses were similar.

A representative of Planet Sub said their sales were down either 50% or 15% (I couldn't make out which).

http://www.kmov.com/video/localnews-ind ... vid=408831

stl63101 · PostOct 22, 2009#10972009-10-22T16:52+00:00

Every restaurant (of the fast foodish type) within 4 or 5 blocks of Culinaria has been affected noticeably by the opening of Culinaria. This is quite evident in the weekday lunch business. Just ask any of them. Those that were doing well (just a few of them) are now scraping and cutting back, those that were on the edge are suffering pretty badly. It is sad, that we are probably going to lose at least 2 or 3 of them by the end of the year...

kleancut · PostOct 22, 2009#10982009-10-22T17:00+00:00

STL63101 wrote:Every restaurant (of the fast foodish type) within 4 or 5 blocks of Culinaria has been affected noticeably by the opening of Culinaria. This is quite evident in the weekday lunch business. Just ask any of them. Those that were doing well (just a few of them) are now scraping and cutting back, those that were on the edge are suffering pretty badly. It is sad, that we are probably going to lose at least 2 or 3 of them by the end of the year...

such an accurate statement.

BL211 wrote:Off the top of my head...

The owner of Baladas was on camera and said his business is down 50%.

The owner of Espresso Mod was quoted as saying his losses were similar.

A representative of Planet Sub said their sales were down either 50% or 15% (I couldn't make out which).

http://www.kmov.com/video/localnews-ind ... vid=408831

Count me in with Baladas and Espresso mod..

Currently, business is slowly trickling back in. People are realizing how much a fail that cafeteria food really is.

people who are affected:

coffee shops, breakfast & lunch and flowershops. Now people are picking up and moving out. Now our landlords are hurting.

Other potential business entrepreneurs are seeing this and have no interest in moving business downtown.

Now downtown is empty minus Schnucks.

Future of Downtown St Louis = Epic FAIL

Alex Ihnen · PostOct 22, 2009#10992009-10-22T17:54+00:00

^ It's undeniable that downtown St. Louis is changing, but very few people will equate Culinaria (and a possible Old Navy, etc.) with "Epic FAIL" despite the challenges posed to independent restaurants and retailers. The future of downtown St. Louis is bright.

kleancut · PostOct 22, 2009#11002009-10-22T18:06+00:00

ok epic fail might of been extreme..

whats bright? that business are leaving downtown

why would a big retail company like old navy want to plant them selves in this, when four retail shops just hit town within these past 2 months.

hey i live here and i have a business here, id love to be a believer. But im not going to sugar coat things when its obvious the route things are going.

Business owners, landlords, etc, talk on a daily/weekly basis. We see things first hand.

Downtown Grocers: Culinaria and City Gourmet

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