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PostJun 18, 2025#126


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PostJun 20, 2025#127


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PostAug 12, 2025#128

Really nice new mixed-use infill in Detroit (one of Dan Gilbert's projects). This could be a model for how all the vacant land on the North Side of STL eventually gets redeveloped.

https://www.archpaper.com/2025/08/city- ... +designing+





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PostAug 12, 2025#129

While City Modern was much more of a contiguous blank slate, I kind of thought the Terra/Union projects in the Grove were our equivalent to that, 475 housing units across a number of different buildings all within a block or two. I’m actually surprised City Modern is only 450 units, I thought it was quite a bit bigger.

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PostSep 15, 2025#130

https://apnews.com/article/ford-motor-h ... cc858759f7

Ford's new headquarters is even further away from downtown while GM is doubling down on downtown.

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Post9:10 PM - Apr 07#131


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Post5:51 PM - Jun 26#132

Is Detroit's renaissance already floundering? 

Alarm bells are ringing over a coming “crisis” in Detroit’s housing market. 

The issues are myriad and thorny, ranging from low incomes, low multifamily rents, aging single-family homes and a lack of liquidity for investors.
The lower incomes earned by many residents of Detroit, generally considered the poorest big city in the country, are at the root of the issues that many experts say they’re facing in trying to make housing viable. 

At present, it’s not, according to Matthew Temkin, a partner with Greatwater Opportunity Capital, a Detroit-based apartment development and management company.

“Forget being profitable. Most housing (operators) in Detroit can’t afford to pay the bills right now,” said Temkin, one of the conference organizers. “Unfortunately, if Detroit housing doesn’t become viable soon, it’s going away.”

In just the last few months, the lender for the Lafayette West apartment development near downtown has taken back the project, and a trio of east side apartment buildings owned by an entity tied to Temkin and others has fallen into receivership.

For starters, with about one-third of Detroiters living in poverty, landlords and developers are constrained in how much they can charge, even as expenses for construction, maintenance, insurance and other cost-drivers go up. 

Nonpayment of rent ticked up during the COVID-19 pandemic years and courts that handle evictions were backed up, leading to a lengthier process to remove a tenant who isn’t paying their rent, further eroding margins. 

And for those new construction projects that do get across the finish line, the investors find it difficult to get their money out because a new owner is going to see their property tax bill increase once the taxes are “uncapped” under new ownership, something known as the pop-up tax under Michigan’s tax policy in which property taxes are capped annually at 5% growth or the rate of inflation, whichever is higher. 

So given those factors, is housing impossible to do in Detroit?

“No, but it’s really hard,” said Brandon Hodges, founder of Detroit-based Tribe Development, which has done various mixed-use projects around the city. 
As one example, Hodges pointed to a $21 million project he’s working on in Detroit. But the valuation of the completed project is just $6 million. 

“The only way that building is getting built is subsidies,” Hodges said, noting that he and other developers generally rely on federal low income housing tax credits and a variety of other layers within a capital stack in order to make their projects even close to viable. 

Those on the financing side of many of these deals say they’re hopeful that a time comes soon when more Detroit housing deals can be done with more straightforward debt and equity, but for now, “the math doesn’t math,” said Damon Hodge, vice president of lending for Invest Detroit, a community development financial institution. 

Given the cacophony of issues the experts say they’re facing, a large part of Thursday’s conference was focused on finding solutions. Even there, the bright spots are minimal. 

Cassandra Floyd, executive director of the West Grand Boulevard Collaborative, said she’s hopeful that some initiatives around the city to spur community land trusts could be helpful. Such efforts use nonprofit ownership around a geographic area to create more affordable homeownership opportunities and fight back against land speculation. 

Horhn, the city assessor, said that it’s increasingly more economical to build new rather try to renovate the city’s aging houses, which number above 200,000. Convincing developers that there is a way to make money on smaller and less-costly houses, under $400,000, is critical. 
“And I don’t know how to do that,” Horhn said. “Because it’s the average cost of construction today.”

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Post7:41 PM - Jun 26#133

I wondered if all the optimism about downtown Detroit (which seems well founded) masked some issues in the rest of the city. It's more than double our size by square foot, but their density is way more spread out than ours. There's nothing close to the CWE and I don't think anything like Shaw/TGS outside of downtown or midtown Detroit

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Post8:04 PM - Jun 26#134

Detroit's downtown has had a nice return but from what I understand, the rest of the city has not seen the same forward development as St. Louis. You still have large swaths of the city that look worse than North City.

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Post8:09 PM - Jun 26#135

Zillow shows their average home value citywide at $76k, less than half that of St. Louis ($188k), and down almost 5% over the last year. St. Louis city’s is only down 0.4% over the year.

Just shows how much a city’s downtown vibrancy and appearance drives the narrative. Though Zillow shows even downtown Detroit’s values down 9% year over year.

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Post9:38 PM - Jun 26#136

A street beautification overhaul, attracting a few international retail shops, a couple cranes in the sky go a long way


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Post10:30 PM - Jun 26#137

^And a corporate HQ.

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Post6:35 PM - Jul 15#138

We lament the lack of public swimming areas on here sometimes, but it could be worse.

Detroit once had outdoor pools across the city. Now, there’s just one — and it’s closed this summer

There’s only one outdoor municipal swimming pool in the entire city and it’s on the far edge of the 140 square mile city limits and it’s also closed for the entire season. 

Post2:09 PM - Jul 29#139

https://www.freep.com/story/money/busin ... 077411007/

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan plans to leave Renaissance Center

Almost the entirety of the RenCen complex is now vacant, aside from the Marriott in the center tower. So about 3.7 million square feet of vacancy in the city’s landmark tower complex. Two towers and the podium, about 1.5 million square feet, are slated for demolition with no replacement.

Somehow I doubt we’ll see any downtown Detroit “doom loop” articles from prominent national publications like we saw about downtown St. Louis.

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Post2:52 PM - Jul 29#140

I was in Detroit in April for a Conference. It wasn't my first time, but it was the first time in maybe 20 years. Downtown Detroit was active and vibrant on both weekends and weekdays. Lots of families. It had a good presence of law enforcement and felt very safe, even at night. Lots of retail and outdoor dining. I stayed at the Ren Center. It was fine for the experience of saying I'd been there, but it was dead. It is cutoff fromt the rest of downtown by a massive street. There was no one in there aside from hotel guests. It is weird and difficult to access as a pedestrian. I wouldn't recommend the Ren Center as the place to stay. I also wouldn't say there is any kind of doom loop present downtown. Ren Center has its challenges, but it will undergo significant redevelopment in the coming years. I am excited to see downtown Detroit rebounding. 

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Post2:52 PM - Jul 31#141

It’s somewhat vibrant because it’s the main destination in an otherwise very bleak city. Still, the residential and commercial real estate markets downtown seem to be faltering quite a bit. Downtown Detroit home values are down 9% year over year.

https://www.zillow.com/home-values/2699 ... etroit-mi/

Another demolition was just announced for another vacant office building downtown, this time for more parking. Building is only 20 years old, 100,000 square feet.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-esta ... -20260727/

Post3:48 PM - Jul 31#142

Btw I’m bringing these points up not to put Detroit down, but because I constantly see Detroit promoted as a model for St. Louis to look towards for revitalization, and I just don’t really buy it. There are so many holes in the comeback narrative if you look beyond the shiny downtown.

Do we need to focus on downtown like Detroit has done? Absolutely. That’s a no brainer, we don’t need a “model” for that. Do we go all in on downtown at the expense of other neighborhoods and broader economic development? Absolutely not.

Post7:24 AM - 19 days ago#143

MOsloth22 wrote:
2:09 PM - Jul 29
Almost the entirety of the RenCen complex is now vacant, aside from the Marriott in the center tower. So about 3.7 million square feet of vacancy in the city’s landmark tower complex. Two towers and the podium, about 1.5 million square feet, are slated for demolition with no replacement.

Somehow I doubt we’ll see any downtown Detroit “doom loop” articles from prominent national publications like we saw about downtown St. Louis.
They actually get a WSJ puff piece instead. Truly amazing. Can we poach Detroit’s PR team?

https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/he-spen ... e-17f83a82

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Post8:28 AM - 18 days ago#144

First we need a billionaire who actually gives a sh*t and doesn't leverage himself for political gain and not actually help the city (and in turn the region) at all.

Beyond just the billionaire, we need a business sector that actually wants to be in a growing MSA to help attract new talent and in turn help themselves grow.

But we have neither.

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Post2:31 PM - 18 days ago#145

If your entire comeback is hitched to the wagon of one benevolent billionaire, it’s way too fragile.

I agree that the STL business community needs to step up in terms of actually putting jobs and people downtown. Financially though, they actually show out pretty well. So many of our civic and cultural institutions are extremely well funded in large part because of them. Arch to Park Equity is essentially our business community bucking up for downtown development. Taylors are obviously huge investors in downtown west right now.

In terms of growth, Metro Detroit has fewer jobs today than pre-COVID. Greater St. Louis is at least up, albeit marginally.

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Post2:47 PM - 18 days ago#146

MOsloth22 wrote:If your entire comeback is hitched to the wagon of one benevolent billionaire, it’s way too fragile.

I agree that the STL business community needs to step up in terms of actually putting jobs and people downtown. Financially though, they actually show out pretty well. So many of our civic and cultural institutions are extremely well funded in large part because of them. Arch to Park Equity is essentially our business community bucking up for downtown development. Taylors are obviously huge investors in downtown west right now.

In terms of growth, Metro Detroit has fewer jobs today than pre-COVID. Greater St. Louis is at least up, albeit marginally.
Well in reality, Detroit's comeback is fake. There's huge swaths of the city that are still and probably will always be worse than the worst parts of North City. They just ignore those parts.

So I wouldn't call it fragile, I'd call it basically not real. It goes to show how much downtown's image does for perception.

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Post3:13 PM - 18 days ago#147

StlAlex wrote:
2:47 PM - 18 days ago
MOsloth22 wrote:If your entire comeback is hitched to the wagon of one benevolent billionaire, it’s way too fragile.

I agree that the STL business community needs to step up in terms of actually putting jobs and people downtown. Financially though, they actually show out pretty well. So many of our civic and cultural institutions are extremely well funded in large part because of them. Arch to Park Equity is essentially our business community bucking up for downtown development. Taylors are obviously huge investors in downtown west right now.

In terms of growth, Metro Detroit has fewer jobs today than pre-COVID. Greater St. Louis is at least up, albeit marginally.
Well in reality, Detroit's comeback is fake. There's huge swaths of the city that are still and probably will always be worse than the worst parts of North City. They just ignore those parts.

So I wouldn't call it fragile, I'd call it basically not real. It goes to show how much downtown's image does for perception.

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"Fake" might be a little harsh, but limited is definitely true. Outer neighborhoods off of their central corridor spine continue to decline.

Also, their downtown (as bounded by their freeway loop of I-75/375) is ~0.8 square miles and could fit into the Downtown St. Louis neighborhood (meaning, Tucker to the River, excluding Downtown West) with room to spare. That is a pretty small and condensed geographic area for such a large metro region and makes it easier to manage/redevelop and shift the narrative. 

Imagine if the area considered downtown St. Louis were less than half of its physical expanse and Union Station, City Museum, Energizer Park, the Central Library, City Hall/Civic Center, Enterprise Center, Stifel Theater, etc. were all concentrated east of Tucker. It would be considered one of the most amenity and entertainment-dense square miles in the Midwest.

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Post7:13 PM - 18 days ago#148

You only have to look at google earth to understand it. STL has so much more height (and bulk) running in our central spine, along with a south side that is largely recovering, intact, and/or growing. When i see Detroit's fabric, it reminds me more of Greater Ville, where pockets near parks or activity centers exist and then quickly vanish to forested areas. 

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Post10:34 PM - 18 days ago#149

StlAlex wrote:
8:28 AM - 18 days ago
First we need a billionaire who actually gives a sh*t and doesn't leverage himself for political gain and not actually help the city (and in turn the region) at all.

Beyond just the billionaire, we need a business sector that actually wants to be in a growing MSA to help attract new talent and in turn help themselves grow.

But we have neither.

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Dan Gilbert's downtown revitalization is pretty brilliant.  He gets all the credit and positive PR for downtowns revival while utilizing state and federal historic tax credits to personally offset his large tax liabilities.  For the amount of real estate the greater St. Louis gets involved in it would make alot of sense for the Taylor family to implement a similar business plan. At the end of the day, it would be good business for them.  

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Post3:38 AM - 18 days ago#150

Another example of the difference in treatment by the media between STL and Detroit, this time local media.

There was a homicide in Indian Village on Monday night, one of the city’s premier neighborhoods. Not a peep about it in any local media until 3 days later when they need help finding a person of interest. One small article. And even then, the article’s title is “Detroit police search for person of interest linked to homicide on city's east side”. The east side is literally half the city, and while they give the street names, there’s no mention of Indian Village anywhere in the article.

In St. Louis, if something happens 6 blocks away from CWE, they’re reporting “horrific murder near Central West End” within a couple hours.

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/detroi ... -east-side

Similarly, last year there were four homicides in downtown Detroit according to their online crime map, more than downtown St. Louis. I can’t find a single article about any of them online.

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