urbanSTL

I've lived in Tampa and the area that the trolley runs is nowhere as vibrant as the Loop. So 2000/day is a totally reasonable estimate. The Loop also has a lot more potential than most "tourist trolleys" I've seen.

goat314 wrote:I've lived in Tampa and the area that the trolley runs is nowhere as vibrant as the Loop. So 2000/day is a totally reasonable estimate. The Loop also has a lot more potential than most "tourist trolleys" I've seen.

Have agree with you Goat on Tampa, work has taken me in and out of the Port of Tampa near downtown the last couple of years. Would see the empty trolleys go by and skratch my head on what it really serves as it connects Ybor City, a drive in entertainment area with no residential to really speak, with a drive in to park your car before you get on the cruise ship terminal dead zone. Where as the loop has both a vibrant residential and entertianment community, close connection to Wash U and its real estate development arm, Forest Park and more importantly the trolley would have two connections to metrolink.

Not sure about the cities, but it seems like a much better situation if you can tie in a trolley or streetcar line with existing fixed route transit that serves a broader part of the community.

I'm really disappointed with the hours and headways listed above. How can anyone expect this to be a viable means of transportation when it doesn't start operating until 11 a.m.? I think for this to be successful, it must attract more than tourists, which will require, at minimum: 1)full day operation 2)frequent headways, every 10 minutes and 3)integration with Metro so that transit users can use their Metro passes or transfer passes on the streetcar. I am an avid transit user, but I know I wouldn't use this very often if I had to pony up an extra two bucks when I could just stay on the Metrolink to get to Delmar (and possibly wait an extra 20 minutes!).

I still think it can be successful. The Loop and Forest Park are both major tourist draws, and linking them with a novel mode of transportation (and one more tourist-friendly than the metrolink/buses) makes them that much more connected. I can see families staying at the Moonrise and riding the trolley to Forest Park for the afternoon. Or people driving to forest park, visiting the history museum, and riding the trolley to the Loop.

I have to agree though, I was a bit disappointed. With weekday hours from 11am-6pm, this trolley will be a "useful" mode of transportation for very few, if any, locals. And in the meantime I can't see it being used for trips within the Loop either, as one can fairly easily walk from one end of the loop to the other in 20 minutes. If businesses continue to extend along Delmar, this could become more of a possibility.

I'd really love to see St. Louis get a modern, commuting streetcar. One running along a major business corridor, and using the same fare system as Metro. For now, I guess I'll just have to keep waiting.

That said, I think the trolley will still have a fun-factor, even for the locals. Two dollars isn't so much to pay for a ride up and down the Loop, in the same manner as people did back when the area first boomed. In fact, on the weekend nights when all the lights are lit up and people are walking up and down the sidewalk, it could be a really pretty ride.

Bump up in New Market tax credits from $5 mil to $ 8 mil for the loop Trolley as per Tim Logan's building blocks storey. They must have some confidence as chances for the next round of tax credits depends on how well you can make things happen with current or previous issues.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/column ... 0f31a.html

I think the old Delmar High School building.

Yep. Its on page 4 of this pdf.

http://www.looptrolley.org/Station3.pdf

From the Post:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 4063a.html

Seems like an awfully big building to me. How many trolley cars do they expect to have, anyway?

framer wrote:From the Post:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 4063a.html

Seems like an awfully big building to me. How many trolley cars do they expect to have, anyway?

The Seattle Streetcar is on a similar scale to the Loop Trolley (and similarly derided by locals as a pointless toy, but anyway...) I walk past the trolley shed regularly and it seems like a similar size to the Delmar High School building. You need a lot of room to move those cars around in there.

Looks like the Loop Trolley projec is moving along steadily. They hired some big shot to oversee the project. He just completed the trolley system in Tampa Florida. Wish we could say the same thing about the Arhc and ballpark village

http://universitycity.patch.com/article ... op-trolley

doug wrote:Similar to the new streetcar line proposed in New Orleans, this project is about fueling development on Delmar not actually getting people to use transit on a large scale nor servicing people who need it financially. If people parked in U-City or at Forest Park and only used the streetcar to shop on Delmar then it serves its purpose. The hours, single track, separate fare, and that it doesn't go to the Central West End makes it disappointing. But then again even if it went to the Central West End I would find it redundant since Metrolink does the same thing. Maybe though that Metrolink is seen as fueling crime white people will find the 'trolley' more attractive.

If the Loop Trolley does actually bring higher density development eastward then perhaps that isn't a bad thing, however I can think of better places to do this such as downtown St. Louis.

Good points Doug, Loop trolley should be taken for what it was concieved as instead of what it should be. Its easy to forget that this isn't a Metro driven project and it rightly needs to stand on its own more or less.

Metro should be taking a lead on how to capitalize on the existing metrolink line through connectivity by seeking further development of BRT's and streetcar lines. Metro did the surveys and info sessions but hasn't really provided a vision in my opinion. A couple well placed projects on a much smaller scale vs the North South propose metrolink addresses the economic and political reality in the neartime and still gives something tangible to its users

Loop Trolley update from Mayor Shelley Welsch

The Loop Trolley Company has decided to go with heritage cars, instead of the previously-considered hybrid cars. They will be reusing old trolley cars, from the 1920s-1950s

Groundbreaking for the trolley line is scheduled for fall of 2012. It’s estimated the line could be up and running by the summer of 2013

http://www.ucitymo.com/blog/?p=611

I went for a little bit. Nothing really new to add that we haven't already seen at this forum. I did ask about fares, and they pictured fares to be around $2 to $3. They did say that you won't be able to use your Metro card on the Trolley. You will have to buy a new card once you transfer onto the Loop Trolley. I didn't ask why but I'm sure their reasoning is that how do they share that money with Metro. This is going to be an independent transportation company from Metro. Other than that it seems to be moving along.

pat wrote:I went for a little bit. Nothing really new to add that we haven't already seen at this forum. I did ask about fares, and they pictured fares to be around $2 to $3. They did say that you won't be able to use your Metro card on the Trolley. You will have to buy a new card once you transfer onto the Loop Trolley. I didn't ask why but I'm sure their reasoning is that how do they share that money with Metro. This is going to be an independent transportation company from Metro. Other than that it seems to be moving along.

With downtown now looking into a line like this, I hope the transportation in the city doesn't become fragmented. 2 different cards and fares for public transportation isn't a great idea, even if it would be tough to work out a system with Metro.

In the the bay area, MUNI's rail service is separate from the touristy Powell/Hyde, Powell/Mason and California cable car lines. It seems to me that the loop trolley will cater to a similar clientele...although it would be nice for metrolink users to have the opportunity to hop between the loop and forest park without buying extra fares or separate cards...

Ha. Ha ha.

When completed, the 2.2-mile system connecting the Delmar Loop to Forest Park will look a lot like the system that ran on St. Louis streets a half-century ago.

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... z1r55r3UL4

The Delmar Loop Trolley will NOT look a lot like this:http://trackingprogress.org/wp-content/ ... -louis.jpg

Good news. Last I heard construction got pushed back until 2013 due to trouble getting the last bit of funding.

doug wrote:I really dislike the idea of two funding systems. Basically no one will transfer. This could really impact ridership and its ability to expand.

Definitely agree. I also believe you will see Metro take over the Loop Trolley in three to five years because of that fact. The argument in my mind will be Wash U/Forest Park Forever/Metro agreeing to it as a development asset that promotes the use of/or feeder to metrolink (you never know, you might see a proposal in three to five years to extend the loop trolley to the Zoo's new property with stops at the boathouse & south entrance). Hopefully at that point you will see a Forest Park station TOD and Wash U building out what they recently proposed. Will it be good? that is another discussion

That being said, It is an approach that might work in getting a streetcar line on Grand or Downtown/Midtown as the county won't give up on Daniel Boone line anytime soon. If anything, Downtown might mike more progress getting a street car line up and running by following Joe Edwards/Loops lead instead of waiting on Metro. They difference I hope is they pursue it as a transit line.

So if they're going with the old fashioned streetcars, does that mean they won't be handicapped-accessible? Will they be air-conditioned? And will they have to run overhead wires all the way around the History Museum now? I feel like they're making a lot of questionable decisions in designing this project and I'm not feeling at all confident of its success. Hope I'm wrong.