Delmar Loop Trolley

dredger · PostNov 17, 2010#4012010-11-17T17:52+00:00

The 25 million went a long way, but even the loop trolley will not get built until additional funding is secured. In other words, its going to take Metro to make this happen.

In that context, it would be great if Metro would step forward with some ideas forward other then putting all its funds into one metrolink line. The prop A sales tax gives the region a chance to build upon some things even when federal funds are going to dry up for big projects but funding might remain intact for smaller projects like Loop Trolley.

- Get the Grand BRT line going.
- Extend current metrolink line from Lambert to Earth City under a design build via Lambert & MoDOT property and row. It gets fix transit to another employment/entertainment core in the county as well as a funding source to improve access to/from Lambert by both transit and vehicle. Not to mention, having MoDOT, Metro and Lambert (city) working together under the East West Gateway umbrella would be a big plus for the region.
- Fund remaining gap in Loop trolley in conjunction with TOD/new metro garage. Not my first arm chair pick for fixed transit in STL but a good chance to move East Delmar forward.
- More Station improvement/platform extensions, getting some roofs over key stations such as Euclid @ BJ, Delmar or Civic center and the ability to add third car adds capacity

DaronDierkes · PostNov 17, 2010#4022010-11-17T18:17+00:00

^Metro has that fancy new restriction on expansion without federal matching funds, and there are no funds yet granted for an expanded metrolink line that I know of. It'd seem that the trolley is the only thing with federal dollars, so that'd move it up the priority list.

It's not the greatest thing for the city, but people are lined up in support of it, and half the money is already on the table. It's a start.

Alex Ihnen · PostNov 17, 2010#4032010-11-17T18:36+00:00

I'll be upset if Metro funds the Delmar Trolley. It's not a transportation solution, it's a development tool promoted by a developer. That's not to say that it has zero merit, only that Metro should stick to their mission and begin funding off-mission projects simply because someone wants them to and they "only" need $25M.

the central scrutinizer · PostNov 17, 2010#4042010-11-17T18:42+00:00

Alex Ihnen wrote:I'll be upset if Metro funds the Delmar Trolley. It's not a transportation solution, it's a development tool promoted by a developer. That's not to say that it has zero merit, only that Metro should stick to their mission and begin funding off-mission projects simply because someone wants them to and they "only" need $25M.

I agree. This whole scheme is basically for the benefit of Loop bar/restaurant owners.

Now, if you add in the part that goes down Lindell/Olive to downtown, then I think you're talking a whole 'nother ballgame.

Alex Ihnen · PostNov 17, 2010#4052010-11-17T19:45+00:00

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Alex Ihnen wrote:I'll be upset if Metro funds the Delmar Trolley. It's not a transportation solution, it's a development tool promoted by a developer. That's not to say that it has zero merit, only that Metro should stick to their mission and begin funding off-mission projects simply because someone wants them to and they "only" need $25M.
I agree. This whole scheme is basically for the benefit of Loop bar/restaurant owners.

Now, if you add in the part that goes down Lindell/Olive to downtown, then I think you're talking a whole 'nother ballgame.

You mean connecting people with places of education, shopping, healthcare and existing transit? Yes! Connecting $500K homes to a park? No.

DaronDierkes · PostNov 18, 2010#4062010-11-18T03:22+00:00

But that capital purchase restriction does exist now, right? What else has federal funds? New bus purchases? Yeah, I wondered why articulated BRT vehicles are not on the shopping list.

Perhaps I just assume that if we had a streetcar on Delmar it would magically advance to the Central West End, or at least we'd be semi-committed in that direction. Sort of like when someone digs a crater in the CWE or puts a ballfield downtown... you just expect there to eventually be more to it than that...

dredger · PostDec 09, 2010#4072010-12-09T05:46+00:00

Wonder if this tidbit has caught the eye of the Loop Trolley folks? Even getting a partial of the streetcar funds that Fort Worth pass on might make construction happen.

http://www.railwayage.com/breaking-news ... funds.html

Wednesday, December 08, 2010

Seemingly adhering to its longstanding tradition of striving to be “anything but Dallas,” Fort Worth, Tex., Tuesday rejected further study on or pursuit of streetcars. The city had been awarded $25 million in federal funds to pursue the streetcar option.

In a 5-3 vote, Fort Worth Mayor Mike Moncrief joined four other council members in voting against continuing to the final phase of the three-part study. “This has been a real struggle for me,” Moncrief said. “The bottom line is, many of us are still wrestling with concerns over funding.”

The $88 million project would have created a three-mile north-south line through downtown, served by three streetcars, estimated to draw 2,000 daily riders. Estimated operating costs of $1.6 million per year would have been covered by the Fort Worth Transportation Authority.

Observers had questioned whether Fort Worth was a logical choice for aiding streetcar development, given the city’s tenuous support of the mode. By contrast, the other cities offered a total of $105 million in federal funding last July included Charlotte, N.C. ($25 million), Cincinnati ($25 million), Fort Worth arch-rival Dallas ($4.9 million), and St. Louis ($25 million), all aggressively advancing their respective projects.

mill204 · PostDec 09, 2010#4082010-12-09T07:10+00:00

^ They know and they're still working hard to secure the last bit of funding necessary to move forward with the project.

brickandmortar · PostDec 09, 2010#4092010-12-09T21:27+00:00

I know part of the limitations of the FTA Urban Circulator Grant was to cap the award at $25 million. Hopefully, they decide to lift that restriction.

dredger · PostDec 12, 2010#4102010-12-12T08:40+00:00

Can understand the cap as it give them a few more cities/streetcars to spread the money around. However, a little bit of hope in how DOT/LaHood decided to re-allocate HSR funds that WI and OH punted on. As stated in a Engineer News Record website story, they essentially pro-rated the funds to projects that got initial HSR funding.

Maybe they will do the same here, split the $25 million between the other four projects. Loop Trolly would have another $6.25 million to work with.

http://enr.ecnext.com/coms2/article_int ... ghSpeedRai

The U.S. DOT spokesperson says that the $1.2 billion was "redistributed to states in proportion to the amount of their initial high-speed rail awards."

quincunx · PostDec 17, 2010#4112010-12-17T19:11+00:00

CNN Article: Can streetcars save America's cities?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/12/17/light. ... tml?hpt=C1

DaronDierkes · PostJan 02, 2011#4122011-01-02T18:20+00:00

The mayor realises she's on a TDD board and doesn't seem to like the idea much.
http://universitycity.patch.com/article ... -my-vision

Mark Groth · PostJan 02, 2011#4132011-01-02T20:24+00:00

I stressed my belief that we need to make sure that a good communications plan is developed to keep people from throughout University City updated on the trolley project. Although the project impacts our residents in Ames Place, Parkview, Parkview Gardens and University Heights #1 more immediately than elsewhere in the City, this project is a "City" project. People from throughout University City think of the Loop as the U City downtown. Many are fearful about the impact of the construction on the viability of the Loop. We need to make sure that we do a good job of keeping everyone apprised of what's happening.

Sounds like the us vs. them thing is going to be alive and well in ole St. Louis County in 2011. I wish U. City didn't view this as a "city" project, rather a regional project.

quincunx · PostJan 02, 2011#4142011-01-02T23:08+00:00

I didn't read it that way. I think she's saying that while construction will impact certain neighborhoods of Univ City more than others, it impacts the whole of Univ City because it affects its downtown (The Loop).

DaronDierkes · PostJan 03, 2011#4152011-01-03T00:07+00:00

^still calling it a "City" project is extremely unproductive.

moorlander · PostJan 12, 2011#4162011-01-12T13:21+00:00

Loop trolley on track for 2012 opening

The Delmar Loop trolley is making steady progress toward a goal of opening sometime in 2012, St. Louis Public Radio reports. Joe Edwards says the trolley should clear its environmental impact study next mon

Read more: Loop trolley on track for 2012 opening | St. Louis Business Journal
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/morn ... ening.html

DogtownBnR · PostJan 13, 2011#4172011-01-13T14:56+00:00

I wish Joe Edwards were deeply involved in other St. Louis projects. He gets things done, that simple! That seems to be the issue in St. Louis. Not getting things done. Who would have thought the Loop Trolley would ever come to fruition. When I first heard about it, I didn't, at least this fast. I'd like him to join the group trying to make Chouteau's Pond a reality. I'd like him to be even more involved in "St. Louis City" than he is now, broaden his scope beyond the Loop. He simply gets things done and that is what this City needs.

Joe Edwards for Mayor!!!

RobbyD · PostJan 13, 2011#4182011-01-13T15:13+00:00

^I agree and agree. Mr. Edwards resume is quite impressive. And rarely do you do hear about pointed controversy surrounding his projects (or I have not noticed). He seems to be able to generate near concensus around his ideas, get the idea from design to reality, then execute the idea into well run establishments.

I personally love the Chouteau's Pond concept. It's daring and transformative (as it relates to the environment). I'm sure it's a long shot, but it might provide that active and recreational City waterfront that the industrial, often flooded riverfront isn't able to provide.

DaronDierkes · PostJan 14, 2011#4192011-01-14T02:46+00:00

^I believe Mr. Edwards has been successful exactly because he hasn't lifted his gaze from the Loop. There's still a lot for him to do on just that street. We need the St. Vincent and Centennial Greenways up and running before we jump to Chouteau, and those go through his Loop. Don't de-anchor him yet. Three corners of Skinker and Delmar still suck. There's a lot of infilling to do before we get to that pond.

RobbyD · PostJan 14, 2011#4202011-01-14T06:44+00:00

^Yup.

DogtownBnR · PostJan 17, 2011#4212011-01-17T17:42+00:00

^Not saying he should desert his efforts on the Loop. We know he NEVER will. That is his life. I think he would be a good resource to tap, to get some 'planned' or 'proposed' projects off of the ground. He would not lose focus of his visions for the Loop. I'd like to see progressive thinkers Like Joe having their input across the City. I think his resume speaks for itself. People will listen.

quincunx · PostFeb 25, 2011#4222011-02-25T17:29+00:00

Might be done late 2012 to early 2013.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... st-3m.html

matguy70 · PostMar 03, 2011#4232011-03-03T02:47+00:00

Exciting news! Great new streetcar line!

chris_on_kingsbury · PostApr 06, 2011#4242011-04-06T23:54+00:00

I sighted a Bi-State bus (

I still say Bi-State) painted up as the Delmar Trolly. It was headed north on DeBaliviere at Forest Park. Might be driving the trolly route as a promo.

wabash · PostApr 09, 2011#4252011-04-09T17:42+00:00

Apologies if this has already been posted. Here are the latest ridership projections, pulled from the Environmental Assessment that is attached to Herbie Markwort's nextSTL article:

Opening and Future Year Ridership Forecasts:

Opening Year (2012): 800/weekday 2,000/weekend day 400,000/year

Future Year (2030): 2,600/weekday 4,000/weekend day 1,100,000/year

2012 Assumptions: Headway = 20 Min, Fare = $2, Service Hours = 11 am – 6pm weekdays; 11am – 12 am weekends
2030 Assumptions: Headway = 10 Min, Fare = $2, Service Hours = 7 am - 1 am

The projected growth in ridership over the next 18 years seems pretty optimistic. I hope they're right, and that development and density along the Delmar/DeBaliviere corridor expands to generate that sort of ridership. Of course, most of that growth wouldn't come from within the corridor itself, but from increased tourism and visitors from around the region. I hope their projections are accurate, but I do think it's completely unrealistic to project zero fare increases over an 18 year span.

For comparison, similarly sized systems have the following riderships (these #s are culled from different sources, and may not be perfectly accurate or up-to-date):

Tampa - 2.3 miles - 800 per day
Little Rock - 3.4 miles - 450 per day
Kenosha - 2.0 miles - 300 per day

Delmar Loop Trolley

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