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PostOct 06, 2009#926

gopher wrote:If this is the same Mario Coleman who was convicted twice before then we can all thank judge John J. Riley for this.



IF this is the same person, then the cops did their jobs TWICE yet the judge WE ELECTED let them right back out TWICE before.


A 22-year-old suspect, identified as Mario Coleman of St. Louis, was charged late Monday with one count of first-degree murder, two counts each of first-degree assault and first-degree robbery, one count of burglary, and six counts of armed criminal action. He was being held on $1 million cash bond.
http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/ ... 0d06b.html



John J. Riley was judge on both of these according to casenet...



0622-CR06095-01 - ST V MARIO COLEMAN

MARIO COLEMAN

12/12/2006

Burglary - 2nd Degree { Felony C RSMo: 569.170 }

Actual Sentence? 3 years

Know what he got?

The Court suspends imposition of sentence. Deft. placed on probation for a period of three years



And then...



In 8/28/2008...

0822-CR05286-01 - ST V MARIO COLEMAN

Unlawful Use Of A Weapon (Subsections 1 - 4) { Felony D RSMo: 571.030 }

Actual sentence? 4 years...

Know what he got?

SHOCK INCARCERATION 120 days. and then 2 years probation





Oh and the 16 year old? You know he can't get the needle don't you?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-633.ZO.html

As it's "Cruel and Unusual Punishment".



:hell: Arm yourselves.


It was the same waste of space. Judges can well decide to let these animals roam the street but the point is well taken about who elects them. It is our apathy if we let this continue. When the time comes for re-election, the educated masses need to start showing up. Only 20% of the populace ends up voting and judges like these end up on the bench, creating situations to let animals kill decent human beings.

PostOct 06, 2009#927

dweebe wrote:
ThreeOneFour wrote:
Matt Drops The H wrote:Tearing down the "Delmar Wall", building multi-racial and class-diverse coalitions to better our city, creating employment opportunities for the poor, working to help neighborhood organizations build capacity in their neighborhoods--all of these are difficult, long-term goals, but they're necessary to stabilizing our city.


You're right- these are great, albeit long-term, solutions, and I think they would address the root causes of this deplorable behavior well.



In the meantime, I have to agree with Dogtown and gopher: It's time to get serious about crime fighting- and it's time to send lenient judges packing. I don't know whether Coleman's example is a typical one, but if it is, then it speaks volumes about violent crime in St. Louis. Getting lenient judges out of the system- and electing judges that will work to ensure that the time is always appropriate for the crime- would be a great short-term start toward making St. Louis a much safer place.


Are you prepared to pay the extra taxes to build all the prisons to warehouse all of these criminals?
Dweebe. We pay taxes to support criminals like these right now. Our tax dollars go to feed these filth and the families that spawn them to let them get feral on the streets. We can divert some of those tax dollars to increase our police force and educational system. Do away with the sense of entitlement that if we have kids, society can support them. We need to have people start having accountability for their actions, including not knowing when to keep their di** in their pants, or opening up their legs every day that ends in a y. Please note that this is true for any race.

I understand the necessity of having judges send people to prison, or give them probation as they deem fit. Violent criminals should NEVER be allowed to go "free on probation". Idiot judges like those should be booted out.

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PostOct 06, 2009#928

*Capital punishment for all murder AND attempted murder cases. Plain and simple. There is a simple way to fix this. Murder, or attempt to murder someone and you will be killed. Send a message for once.*



Logically, this should work, although that same logic tells us it never will, yet my heart always wishes it could be at least attempted.



There is no reason to live in fear of a few.

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PostOct 06, 2009#929

newstl2020 wrote:There is no reason to live in fear of a few.


That's why I don't.

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PostOct 06, 2009#930

Yeah I don't either. More of a metaphor than anything else. I've lived the hard knock life in the city for 22 years. I am a hardened veteran.



Anyway...

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PostOct 06, 2009#931

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't *elect* judges. They are nominated and we "retain" them after a year.

http://www.courts.mo.gov/pressrel.nsf/b ... enDocument

and

http://www.courts.mo.gov/page.asp?id=297


After the judge has been in office for at least one year, the people then get to vote whether a judge should be retained in office. I have heard criticisms recently that this feature of the plan does not work, for few judges have been voted out of office. But, I believe that view does not fully consider the nature of the retention vote.



A retention election is not a vote on the individual’s qualifications for the position in the same way that we vote in a contested political election. That is the system the people rejected in adopting the nonpartisan plan. A retention election is not to get rid of bad, unethical judges, either. Those are removed by a system that takes away their license and requires them to resign if they engage in any serious legal or ethical misconduct.



No, the reason for the retention election, I believe, is to make it clear that, in the last instance, the people of Missouri are in charge. Judges, governors, commissioners, all of them, know that they should do their job fairly and properly, because if they do not, and a judge is sworn in who shows himself or herself to be unqualified, the people can vote that person out.




#1) As far as cruel and unusual punishment, I don't think our founding fathers envisioned the perversion of the criminal justice system like it is today. Caning to me is quite acceptable, especially if the victim gets to do it. Old skool Biblical stoning style.



#2) As far as paying for prisons, I'm not a pot-head, don't like it, don't smoke it, don't wanna be anywhere near it, but to me the "war on drugs" has sucked more money out of the system and locked too many people up that could be used to keep and punish ***** like Coleman in prison. Tax the sh*t out of it and control it like they do with alcohol and tobacco. And really, if we had more of #1 we would need less of #2.

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PostOct 07, 2009#932

dweebe wrote:
Are you prepared to pay the extra taxes to build all the prisons to warehouse all of these criminals?


As opposed to what? Keeping the status quo in place, which eventually results in those taxpayer dollars going to dubious programs that may simply perpetuate the current cycle of violence and lead to more random killings? As gopher said, the money and space now devoted to fight drugs could be freed up to punish lowlifes like Mario Coleman. Or, if you tackle the roots of this behavior as Matt Drops the H eloquently suggested earlier in the thread, well, that would have a hefty price tag as well. Never mind a discussion about taxes- maybe we should simply ask ourselves the price we're willing to pay for a bit more safety.



Understand that I'm not trying to be flippant. The bottom line is, Coleman was a violent criminal with repeat offenses that served a pitiful fraction of the time for which he was sentenced. I don't know how anyone can be comfortable with this and think that justice was somehow served. Like I said before, I don't know for sure, but if this is indicative of St. Louis justice, we have far bigger problems than the mere presence of criminals in our city.


DeBaliviere wrote:Institute caning. I'm serious.


You know, a lot of people thought Freeman Bosley Sr. was crazy when he once suggested that. I didn't think so.


gopher wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't *elect* judges. They are nominated and we "retain" them after a year.


You've got it right. I said we elect judges, but by that I meant the process you just described. I don't know how many people I talk to after voting that either leave the section blank, choose to retain all of the judges, or choose to retain none of them. I am as guilty as most people I know in that I'm not all that informed about judges, so I generally choose not to retain them. Frankly I think there needs to be a bit more turnover in those positions anyway. And with this unspeakable tragedy in mind, I think I'm going to pay a bit more attention now, and I hope others will as well.

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PostOct 07, 2009#933

I am still unable to offer a quality reply to this thread due to the anger I have over this situation. The sad part is, the fact that he has been twice released does not surprise me in the least. I expected it as a matter a fact... All I can say is that I AM SOOOO proud of the off-duty officer and her boyfriend, a St. Louis City firefighter for fighting back. Gina, the wonderful young woman who was senselessly killed, the off-duty officer, the firefighter and the officer injured today in the accident are constantly on my mind and in my prayers.

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PostOct 07, 2009#934

Why is the death penalty not instituted for every murderer?

I am telling you, would that be a deterrent or what!!! Those fing thugs would have thought twice about shooting Gina, her cousin & friend. Is this country not to the point where we have no choice, but to institue an eye for an eye legal system?? It would deter these thugs and all of the other murderers out there. You murder, you are put on death row and put to death in a reasonable time period, no appeals, unless it is an extraordinary circumstance. Why house this garbage and pay for them to eat, sleep and do nothing, but sit on their a** all day. Great way to save major tax dollars to reform the reformable and build more prisons if necessary to house other violent offenders. Yes, I am furious, but this may be the only way to stop to killing. Candlelight vigils are not going to work, parades no, etc...etc... Something drastic is going to happen at some point, maybe not in our lifetime.

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PostOct 07, 2009#935

All:



"The great Firemen of St Louis are holding a fundraiser this Wednesday to benefit Gina Stallis' boys; Sam and Ben. It will be held at Peppers on Gravois this Wednesday Oct 7th from 7pm-1am."



Thsi was a message I received from my cousin a little bit ago. She was friends with Gina Stallis. They knew each other from church and from various social outings. Their kids were in the same grade school classes. This family is in the throes of despair and shock, and they need all the support they can get.



The Stallises are pillars of their neighborhood and extended community. Such good people must be supported, especially in their hour of need. If you're thinking of going out tonight, I highly recommend stopping by Peppers and dropping at least a fiver in a fireman's bucket.

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PostOct 07, 2009#936

That is a good way to pro-actively help. Another thing to do would be to start a website called Execute_mario_coleman.com where people could sign online petitions to show support for the destruction of murderers. After mario dies, others could be put up on the site; we all know that somebody else who needs to go will come along in a few weeks. Perhaps the site could even be used to make money for victim's families. For example, it could offer various products for sale such as fertilizer made from the murderer's carcass, or the gold from his grill, or directions to his grave so people can go and piss on it. You know, the sort of things people want for Christmas.

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PostOct 07, 2009#937

^^Good pro-active helpful idea to post for all GC. If anything about a website comes around please post.

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PostOct 07, 2009#938

TGE-ATW wrote:That is a good way to pro-actively help. Another thing to do would be to start a website called Execute_mario_coleman.com where people could sign online petitions to show support for the destruction of murderers. After mario dies, others could be put up on the site; we all know that somebody else who needs to go will come along in a few weeks. Perhaps the site could even be used to make money for victim's families. For example, it could offer various products for sale such as fertilizer made from the murderer's carcass, or the gold from his grill, or directions to his grave so people can go and piss on it. You know, the sort of things people want for Christmas.


Can we get a "hell yes" up in hurrre?

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PostOct 07, 2009#939

DOGTOWNB&R wrote:Is this country not to the point where we have no choice, but to institue an eye for an eye legal system?? It would deter these thugs and all of the other murderers out there. You murder, you are put on death row and put to death in a reasonable time period, no appeals, unless it is an extraordinary circumstance.


This seems to me to be a quick way to also end up executing a significant number of innocent people. I'd sure hate to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. That is getting to the point where I would fear the legal system more than the criminals.

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PostOct 07, 2009#940

Let's say the state kills 1 innocent person out of 10K but the new death penalty law "saves" 15 innocent people out of 10K. Are we +14 in the dead innocent people category?

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PostOct 07, 2009#941

Sometimes I don't know if I'm reading the Post-Dispatch comments or the Urban St. Louis forum.

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PostOct 07, 2009#942

^ I can honestly say that I don't believe I have EVER been so insulted in my life.

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PostOct 08, 2009#943

Grover wrote:Sometimes I don't know if I'm reading the Post-Dispatch comments or the Urban St. Louis forum.


C'mon, Grover, this is nothing like the Post-Dispatch comment section at all.



I don't agree with everything I've read here either, but I think this discussion is still far more reasonable than just about anything I've ever seen on STLtoday.com.



I also understand that with the murder of Gina Stallis, this has been a messy topic at times over the last couple of days, but I think it's difficult to expect people to completely take their emotions out of the equation after such a random and violent crime like this occurred.

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PostOct 08, 2009#944

-capital punishment should be illegal. It is is only the United States and

Afghanistan, the Bahamas, China, Cuba, Egypt, India, Iran, Iraq, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, North and South Korea, Libya, Malaysia, Pakistan, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Sudan, Syria, Thailand, Uganda, and Vietnam.

(awesome list. I'm sure our forefathers would be proud!) http://ask.yahoo.com/20060802.html



-legalize non harmful drugs, ie. pot, which would drastically free up prison space.

-2 strikes and youre out/ locked up for life in St. Louis city if you commit a burglary or any offense against another person. enough leniency with these animals. overnight, we could become the safest city by locking up people with bird brains.

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PostOct 08, 2009#945

JCity wrote:-capital punishment should be illegal. It is is only the United States and

Afghanistan, the Bahamas, China, Cuba, Egypt, India, Iran, Iraq, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, North and South Korea, Libya, Malaysia, Pakistan, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Sudan, Syria, Thailand, Uganda, and Vietnam.

(awesome list. I'm sure our forefathers would be proud!) http://ask.yahoo.com/20060802.html


Our forefathers would probably be disgusted that more countries weren't on this list. Don't forget that these were guys who would shoot each other over perceived/actual slights to their honor by way of duels...not to mention killing or public torture of Tories and British loyalists before, during and after the Revolutionary War. Those dudes knew how to get things done. They weren't the angels and saints that people want to make them out to be (slavery, anyone?) but they knew how to win a war and they knew how to set up a great little government and then get the hell out of the way.

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PostOct 08, 2009#946

Let's say the state kills 1 innocent person out of 10K but the new death penalty law "saves" 15 innocent people out of 10K. Are we +14 in the dead innocent people category?


Plain and simple math.....saves lives. What is imhumane about that?


This seems to me to be a quick way to also end up executing a significant number of innocent people. I'd sure hate to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. That is getting to the point where I would fear the legal system more than the criminals.
There would have to be exceptions. In the case of Mario Coleman, is there any reason to doubt what he did???? He may be put to death someday anyway.


-capital punishment should be illegal.
:roll:


Sometimes I don't know if I'm reading the Post-Dispatch comments or the Urban St. Louis forum.


I am very sure that many of you would change your tune if this were your mother, sister, cousin, neighbor, friend, nurse etc...murdered or hurt by this animal!

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PostOct 08, 2009#947

Grover wrote:Sometimes I don't know if I'm reading the Post-Dispatch comments or the Urban St. Louis forum.


Maybe we could build a Thunderdome, where criminals fight to the death - two criminals enter, one criminal leaves. Of course, the one who leaves gets sent to jail.

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PostOct 08, 2009#948

I can assure all of you that this is the first and the last time I will ever quote anything from St. Louis Coptalk. Make of this information what you will, as I usually pay that website no mind because it's mostly quite negative, but I think these statements are something important to consider. It may be fashionable in some circles to bash the SLMPD, but even if they are doing all they can (which I think is true in most cases) does it really matter when the courts and judges won't back up their efforts?



(BTW, in the posts below, SIS= Suspended Imposition of Sentence.)


I know that Coleman got an SIS for felony burglary and theft in 2007. I read in the Post that he got another SIS for Unlawful Use of a Weapon in 2008. I have not been able to find out if his UUW happened at the same time as the burg/theft, or after. If after, this means that his punishment for violating his first SIS was another SIS. Logic would dictate that the first SIS would have been revoked and off to Jefferson City with him.



That's why I think the UUW was at the same time as the other felonies. I can ill believe that even the thug-loving circuit like St. Louis City would punish an SIS violation with another SIS. It's like stop in the name of the law, or I'll yell stop again. Or, this is your last chance, if you screw up, you'll get another last chance.



Is St. Louis City's circuit really that crazy?

Yes. They are that crazy. Multiple consecutive SIS pleas are the norm and not the exception. It's not just the judges either. The Circuit Attorney has to agree to the plea as well. At least one commander has been very vocal in fighting this fight for the last several years. An SIS plea doesn't even count as a conviction so under the current law a thug with multiple SIS "convictions" who is over 21 can legally carry a gun in their car. The Police Board was made aware of this problem over a year ago. Until something is done, judges can continue to hand out such "sentences" at their discretion. The police are doing their job. The problem is that the prosecutors and judges don't do the job they are paid to do. Check the records. Vote them out.

As a former probation and parole officer I can assure you that it is common practice, to award SIS offenders with another SIS. I once had a guy with FOUR felony probations (all separate incidents)running at the same time, which obviously defeats the purpose of probation in the first place. In rural counties, the judges are more accountable because the people in the counties know what's going on. The second time some drug addict in Macon, MO tests positive for marijuana they get their probation revoked and are shipped off to prison. It then comes down to the city judges to keep down prison overcrowding, resulting in felons being put on probation over and over. Absolutely no accountability, which is why I won't ever be going back to that job. I'd gladly pay higher taxes if the money were going to build more prisons. We need them.

That's b/c of the stupid Missouri plan for STL City, Co., Jackson Co., statewide appellate and Supremes. Rural judges can be voted out b/c there's someone credible on the other side of the ballot. In places with the MO Plan 9 from Outer Space, your choice is the sitting judge or no. Who the heck is "no?"


Like I said before, make of this information what you will, but for me at least, it reinforces what I said earlier in this thread about St. Louis having a much larger problem than the mere presence of hardened criminals on our streets.



I don't feel unsafe, I have no desire to leave the city I love, but if lowlifes like Mario Coleman continue to slip through the cracks, it's only a matter of time before another innocent person is hurt, or even worse.

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PostOct 08, 2009#949

ThreeOneFour wrote:I also understand that with the murder of Gina Stallis, this has been a messy topic at times over the last couple of days, but I think it's difficult to expect people to completely take their emotions out of the equation after such a random and violent crime like this occurred.


The one major difference between this crime and the crime articles that the STLToday posters spout off their nonsense about is that we're all smart enough to know the difference between random and non-random crime. The totally random nature of this incident makes it hit a lot closer to home for most of us than the majority of incidents in which victim and suspect know each other.

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PostOct 08, 2009#950

^ It also hits very close to home for me when I go by Gina's home everyday, see her sons toys on the porch, see the Halloween decorations on the door and her car out front, knowing that she will never walk into her house with her 2 sons again...for what?? A TV, $90 & some jewelry. Those thugs could have just taken the loot and left without shooting.



It is also hard to stand on my porch and see the family there, cleaning out her house, likely carrying her outfit for the funeral on a hanger. The family hugging out front, friends bringing gifts over ther to console the family while they clean out her house. The candles lit on neighbors porches. Shall I go on.........Maybe if some of you saw this, you'd know why I feel the death penalty should not be illegal.

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