Man, those are really harsh. I'm not sure what would motivate someone to go on a site and write reviews like that.
I don't really get the "segregated neighborhoods" bit. I don't see St. Louis as being much different than any other city in that regard, although St. Charles (or North County West) might be our extreme case.
The nine-year transplant does raise some valid points.
I really think that the "reviews" above prove the point. Did someone who visited the city, say the brewery, went to a Cards game and maybe checked out the zoo REALLY feel "racial tension"? I think they get it from the locals. Just imagine someone stopping a local while in the CWE and asking "is there anything to see that way" and pointing north. Imagine the response . . .
And I can't imagine a tourist being asked where they went to high school - gimme an f'ing break - that's clearly from talking to locals as well.
Grover wrote:^ I imagine that it's much, much more about perception than experience. I know of no one who has visited the city and left saying, "gosh that was one racist city."
Not in so many words, but I did notice the greater-than-average degree of segregation here when I first visited.
^ can you elaborate? where were you visiting from? I'm not trying to call you out, but I have had friends visit from Indiana and they have remarked that they think the city segregated - though in all honesty they mean that there are a lot of black people at the grocery store. When you're not used to diversity of any kind even 25% "other" seems like a different world.
Reading those idiotic comments from those idiotic meatheads raises my blood pressure. I suppose we can take these comments as a blessing in disguise... There will always be those who expect to have their stimulation spoon-fed to them, and St. Louis naturally filters those predictable bores out, leaving the city open to creative souls who understand, appreciate and respect it, and to those who find adventure and fulfillment in being a part of a work-in-progress.
The "segregated" thing is so played out and overblown. All older cities are the same. I've heard it said about Chicago, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Philly, etc. Come on, segregation is an American urban condition, not a St. Louis affliction.
I guarantee none of those commenters ever went to Cherokee Street, Soulard Market, Lafayette Square, or from the sound of it, even Forest Park or The Loop! I mean, if there's one negative thing about our city that is right on, it's that the uninitiated tourist can easily miss all that is wonderful about our city. Then again, as someone who loves to travel to lesser-known cities, I make it a point to ditch the visitors guide and find the real nitty gritty of the city. So I guess it proves that in fact, it's these dopes who are really ignorant and lazy. I can appreciate that St. Louis is not for everyone, but to say it "sucks" is completely ignorant.
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:The takeaway from this - stop asking the stupid "where did you go to high school" question. No wonder people think we're rubes.
streetsabby wrote:I'm not sure if other states have adopted stretches of the highway to the KKK, but that most certainly doesn't help with first impressions upon entering the city.
streetsabby wrote:I'm not sure if other states have adopted stretches of the highway to the KKK, but that most certainly doesn't help with first impressions upon entering the city.
I'd like to know where this is located.
Nowhere in the city, I'm sure. So I don't see what "entering the city" has to do with it.
streetsabby wrote:I'm not sure if other states have adopted stretches of the highway to the KKK, but that most certainly doesn't help with first impressions upon entering the city.
I'd like to know where this is located.
Nowhere in the city, I'm sure. So I don't see what "entering the city" has to do with it.
Highway 55. Not sure if the signs are still up though. I seem to remember reading somewhere that they took the signs down because people kept taking them.
Here you go. This is one of many articles about it if you google. Apparently it is now the stretch labeled Rosa Parks Highway.
Missouri yields, allows KKK to participate in Adopt-A-Highway program
The Associated Press
12.02.99
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ST. LOUIS — A Ku Klux Klan official yesterday defended Missouri's decision to allow the group to take part in the state's Adopt-A-Highway program, saying he sees nothing contradictory between white supremacy and environmentalism.
After five years of legal battles, Missouri transportation officials reluctantly granted the Klan an Adopt-A-Highway application on Nov. 30 and erected signs the same day. A federal judge had ruled that the state could not deny the Klan from participating in the litter-control program. However, Missouri is still appealing the ruling.
"Most decent people are concerned about the environment," said Thomas Robb of Harrison, Ark., director of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. "People are not running out to sign up for the program. It's a legitimate right to want that recognition."
The two brown signs along Interstate 55 recognizing the Klan's participation did not last long. The signs read: "Adopt-A-Highway. Next mile adopted by Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Realm of Missouri."
One of the signs was cut down on Nov. 30, and highway workers put it back yesterday morning. By nightfall, both signs had been removed.
Some community leaders are suggesting that Missouri drop the program altogether to avoid future conflict with the Klan and save the state from embarrassment.
"We understand First Amendment rights. But this is wrong," said James Buford, president of the St. Louis Urban League. "It gives the city and state an image that we tolerate racism. The program has gone too far."
The state transportation department may consider ending the program, spokeswoman Linda Wilson said, but "we really don't want to do that because we have 4,700 adopters who are helping us."
In Adopt-A-Highway programs, private citizens clean up a section of highway that they sponsor.
The programs began in Texas in 1985. Aside from Maine and Vermont, all other states soon organized their own programs, each with different rules and contracts.
The only known highway adopted by the Klan outside Missouri was one sponsored by Robb's local Klan chapter in Arkansas, just south of the Missouri state line, said Joanne Orr, president of the newly formed International Adopt-A-Highway Association.
The Klan had picked up trash there for three years but forgot to renew its application in 1998. Robb said the group would submit another application. Randy Ort, spokesman for the Arkansas State Highway and Transportation Department, said, "We experienced more vandalism with that sign than the other signs."
In May, high school students in Palatine, Ill., claimed every available inch of highways earmarked for the program after officials said they otherwise would be forced to let the Klan participate. The students rushed to file their applications, leaving the Klan on the waiting list.
When the Klan asked to participate in Maryland's Anne Arundel County this year, county officials took down all 52 of their Adopt-a-Road signs down rather than give the group a chance to participate.
brickandmortar wrote:^exactly. don't need to google, I already knew the answer. There's no such sign entering the city.
Not any more at least. But there was signs 10 years ago and people were entering the city back then. To me that's still valid, embarrassing and creepy.Oh well, if you already new the answer whats the point? I'm not sure anymore myself, hee hee. Let's get back to the crime!
JuiceInDogtown wrote:I've lived here 2 years now and have never been asked once where I went to high school by anyone.
You're lucky... I've lived here barely over a year and have been asked the question around a dozen times (including in the "introduce yourself" questions on this very site). And that doesn't even include the countless times I've heard it asked to others.
Not sure why, but I find the HS question to be extremely annoying. Guess I better get used to it.
brickandmortar wrote:^exactly. don't need to google, I already knew the answer. There's no such sign entering the city.
Not any more at least. But there was signs 10 years ago and people were entering the city back then. To me that's still valid, embarrassing and creepy.Oh well, if you already new the answer whats the point? I'm not sure anymore myself, hee hee. Let's get back to the crime!
I think it is a valid point to call out your original comment, "I'm not sure if other states have adopted stretches of the highway to the KKK, but that most certainly doesn't help with first impressions upon entering the city."
You clearly make it sound as though the sign is currently up. This is how stories are passed around and negative perceptions are developed. For how long should we comment on how a KKK Adopt-A-Highway sign leaves a bad impression when it's been down for 10 years? We shouldn't choose to brand ourselves with the past.
UrbanPioneer wrote:I've lived here barely over a year and have been asked the question around a dozen times (including in the "introduce yourself" questions on this very site).
Excellent call - can we remove that question? It's very uninviting to those who don't give a sh!t. Why make the forum appear exclusionary?
Speaking of crime, it would have been a crime NOT to allow the klan to adopt the highway, it was settled by the legal system. So, the best way to look at the fact that we let those A-Holes pick up trash on the side of our highway is in the context of our community's commitment to freedom of speech. In a perverse way, the fact that we sucked up our personal feelings and deferred to the Constitution in that matter demonstrates what a progressive "rule of law" society we have in the St. Louis region. Of course, "I don't approve of what [the klan] says, but I will defend to the death their right to say it" (and their right to pick up trash and run the risk of getting crushed by a logging truck).
TGE-ATW wrote:Speaking of crime, it would have been a crime NOT to allow the klan to adopt the highway, it was settled by the legal system. So, the best way to look at the fact that we let those A-Holes pick up trash on the side of our highway is in the context of our community's commitment to freedom of speech. In a perverse way, the fact that we sucked up our personal feelings and deferred to the Constitution in that matter demonstrates what a progressive "rule of law" society we have in the St. Louis region. Of course, "I don't approve of what [the klan] says, but I will defend to the death their right to say it" (and their right to pick up trash and run the risk of getting crushed by a logging truck).
Also if you remember Gov. Carnahan had that stretch of I-55 renamed The Rosa Parks Highway. So not only did these racists have to clean up garbage they had to do it on a highway named for someone who stood (er, sat) for everything they despise!
TGE-ATW wrote:Speaking of crime, it would have been a crime NOT to allow the klan to adopt the highway, it was settled by the legal system. So, the best way to look at the fact that we let those A-Holes pick up trash on the side of our highway is in the context of our community's commitment to freedom of speech. In a perverse way, the fact that we sucked up our personal feelings and deferred to the Constitution in that matter demonstrates what a progressive "rule of law" society we have in the St. Louis region. Of course, "I don't approve of what [the klan] says, but I will defend to the death their right to say it" (and their right to pick up trash and run the risk of getting crushed by a logging truck).
White trash picking up trash... that's Missourah-style recycling!
brickandmortar wrote:^exactly. don't need to google, I already knew the answer. There's no such sign entering the city.
Not any more at least. But there was signs 10 years ago and people were entering the city back then. To me that's still valid, embarrassing and creepy.Oh well, if you already new the answer whats the point? I'm not sure anymore myself, hee hee. Let's get back to the crime!
I think it is a valid point to call out your original comment, "I'm not sure if other states have adopted stretches of the highway to the KKK, but that most certainly doesn't help with first impressions upon entering the city."
You clearly make it sound as though the sign is currently up. This is how stories are passed around and negative perceptions are developed. For how long should we comment on how a KKK Adopt-A-Highway sign leaves a bad impression when it's been down for 10 years? We shouldn't choose to brand ourselves with the past.
I understand Grover and you have a very good point. I think I was just trying (apparently not very well) to answer questions that were asked on page 37. I do seem to remember this being a huge deal back then. I guess 10 years just flew by for me! I apologize again for any confusion and bad "tense" usage.
