urbanSTL

The chief says the dept is stretched thin. Maybe become part of a bigger town?

Stltoday - Three men shot in Wellston run to MetroLink station for
help

WELLSTON • Three young men were shot Tuesday afternoon in Wellston and ran to a nearby MetroLink station for help, authorities said.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 6c43f.html

I'd like some context... What is the percentage for similar cities with lower homicide/crime rates? Is it 25%, 50%, or 75%? It sounds bad but do we really know? If all of the other cities are at 25% we have identified a SERIOUS problem, but if that is typical, then maybe something else is going on. And if so, why is that typical?

What is the incentive for these judges to give "papers" rather than jail time? This story implies that the problem is soft-hearted judges that live in places with no crime, yet all summer and fall we hear about judges who throw people in jail for unpaid tickets.

There is a deeper story here... why are the judges so reluctant to put gun offenders in jail?

roger wyoming II wrote:^ You'd have to take a look at what "similar cities" are, but let's take Cleveland, similar to us I think but larger and a bit higher poverty... with raw numbers, we had about 25% more homicides in 2013 and 70% more in 2014 even though they also saw a bit of an increase last year. Last year we were more than 100% higher than cities like Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. Detroit has more homicides, but is larger and will have a smaller rate than we will have when '14 numbers come out from FBI. '15 is off to a depressing start as well.. But our ace chief isn't sure we have a crisis.

It's not just the city-wide rate, it's the pattern. St. Louis has an intensity of concentration of crime on it's north side unlike those in other comparable cities. Crime is much more diffused in Cincinnati and Pittsburgh. It means that the intensity of crime in even the high crime parts of Cincinnati is much less than in St. Louis. Cincinnati simply does not have the no-go areas that St. Louis does, despite it's moderate overall crime rate. The geographic concentration that makes crimes such a special challenge in St. Louis.

roger wyoming II wrote:^ showing how crazy STL is, even if we take out last year's homicides in North Patrol, we still had 62, which is just four fewer than all of Cincy... add on the North's 96 and we get insanity.

But it's not insurmountable. The answers to this problem are IN St. Louis. St. Louis City needs full local control of the police. The police need to expand their systems of crime reporting and investigations. This doesn't have to cost more, but it does mean systematic changes in internal police operations. What's more, it won't pay off right away. It's takes time for criminals to get the message. If you care about St. Louis commit to working with the police and holding them to account at the same time. Put real pressure on the mayor. Remind him he's replaceable, etc. IF quality of life issues improve, I think you'll find that economic development increasingly takes care of itself.

roger wyoming II wrote:^ You'd have to take a look at what "similar cities" are, but let's take Cleveland, similar to us I think but larger and a bit higher poverty... with raw numbers, we had about 25% more homicides in 2013 and 70% more in 2014 even though they also saw a bit of an increase last year.

By context, I wasn't talking about the homicides and crime, I meant the percentage of gun offenders given probation.

It is pretty clear that we have higher crime than peer cities. But if 62% of gun offenders are given probation, and only 10% are given probation in Cincinnati, perhaps we have a smoking gun. But we don't know this percentage in other cities.

And if the ratio of probation vs. jail time for gun crimes in St. Louis is dramatically higher than in the peer cities, why would that be the case? What is motivating judges to go soft on gun crimes? The article implies that there are a bunch of bleeding heart judges that live in Ladue, Clayton, etc. willing to give gun wielding criminals in the city second, third, and fourth chances. That just sounds weird to me. Why are judges so reluctant to sentence these people to jail time?

For me the question is, how can we have such a high incarceration rate if we're allegedly reluctant to send people to jail? Missouri's incarceration rate is 9th in the US, with the 8th highest growth rate; we didn't get there by handing out probation.

Maybe we just have a ton of violent people.

New crime rankings are out
The top 10:

1. Tulsa, OK

2. Oklahoma City, OK

3. Birmingham, AL

4. Orlando, FL

5. West Valley City, UT

6. Kansas City, KS

7. San Bernardino, CA

8. Indianapolis, IN

9. Jackson, MS

10. Memphis, TN


Review this new criteria here

http://www.ktul.com/story/26516236/tuls ... w.facebook

Including healthcare coverage in the metrics is... odd.

Ebsy wrote:Including healthcare coverage in the metrics is... odd.

A crime against human decency?

^^ They also include "deadly crashes."

So when they're talking about dangerous, they don't just mean falling victim to crime.

Healthcare is still a bit odd because not enrolling isn't something that can randomly happen to you. But just saying, this list is already taking a slightly different take on the word "dangerous" than what we're used to talking about in this thread.

Antonio French just tweeted, "What is city hall doing to address violent crime?" Isn't he part of city hall?

Northside Neighbor wrote:Antonio French just tweeted, "What is city hall doing to address violent crime?" Isn't he part of city hall?

Yep. Therefore, he is part of the problem.

Three wounded in last night's shooting in 1400 block of Olive:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... cb503.html

framer wrote:Three wounded in last night's shooting in 1400 block of Olive:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... cb503.html

The latest of many shootings in that stretch of street involving the homeless/loiterers.

Wasn't it Plato or Aristotle who said, "Arm the homeless!".

eee123 wrote:

framer wrote:Three wounded in last night's shooting in 1400 block of Olive:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... cb503.html

The latest of many shootings in that stretch of street involving the homeless/loiterers.

And in turn directly related to the NLEC.

Seriously, when is enough enough. This serves as a residential/commercial area. There is no room or tolerance for this crap. I raised my daughter there for the first year of her life. I have a lot of money invested there. Whether they care or not City Hall will be getting an earful from me.

robertn42 wrote:

eee123 wrote:

framer wrote:Three wounded in last night's shooting in 1400 block of Olive:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... cb503.html

The latest of many shootings in that stretch of street involving the homeless/loiterers.

And in turn directly related to the NLEC.

How now?

It looks like there were four involved:

19 year old - hit in the upper leg; had an ongoing dispute with 26 year old
26 year old - gunman, got into a car as passenger and drove away
72 year old - passerby/victim (either he or the 63 year old was driving a car)
63 year old - passerby/victim (either he or the 72 year old was driving a car)

Now, I only read the P-D story, so my not seeing the descriptor "homeless" doesn't mean that one or more aren't homeless. Looking at the descriptions, who got into/drove cars, etc., I couldn't even begin to guess which might be homeless. So how are the homeless involved? And, given that, how can you directly relate that to NLEC?

bprop wrote:How now?

It looks like there were four involved:

19 year old - hit in the upper leg; had an ongoing dispute with 26 year old
26 year old - gunman, got into a car as passenger and drove away
72 year old - passerby/victim (either he or the 63 year old was driving a car)
63 year old - passerby/victim (either he or the 72 year old was driving a car)

Now, I only read the P-D story, so my not seeing the descriptor "homeless" doesn't mean that one or more aren't homeless. Looking at the descriptions, who got into/drove cars, etc., I couldn't even begin to guess which might be homeless. So how are the homeless involved? And, given that, how can you directly relate that to NLEC?

They were leaving a mental health facility. There are constant loiterers outside that building during business hours.

There have been numerous other shootings involving people loitering on that stretch of Olive in the past 6 months or so (including that double fatal). Most/all of the perps are driving cars.

Obviously none of that proves that it's the homeless. But it's likely directly related to loitering, which is in turn directly related to NLEC/the Bridge.

^ Where does it say "They were leaving a mental health facility?" Who was? The gunman/driver?

That's a mighty long chain of assumptions and connections you're trying to make.

Those people trying to tie this particular "directly" to NLEC, I think, either don't know what the word "directly" means, or are really on a mission to prove something no matter what the truth really is.

Don't try to defend NLEC. That place has to go!