Comments like the ones above might explain why issues don't get resolved. People make it personal. Crap like that makes both parties completely uninterested in discussion or problem solving. Get over your own angst.
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There does not exist, nor will there ever exist, any shread of research or evidence that one race is smarter than the other. Having said that, unfortunately there does exist heavy empirical data that some races commit more violent crimes than others.
If this is the forum equivalent of a subtweet directed at me, you don't gotta be so oblique. We're all grown-ups here. Wasn't making it personal at all; just putting in clear words what lee was not-so-subtly implying.pat wrote:Comments like the ones above might explain why issues don't get resolved. People make it personal. Crap like that makes both parties completely uninterested in discussion or problem solving. Get over your own angst.
It wasn't directed at that comment. It was at leeharvey's comments and then the back and forth. It just gets old. Seems to take away from the original topic and deters other worthwhile exchanges.
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Just a reminder that crime happens in every major downtown.... Indy had a shooting Saturday night during Final Four weekend leaving one person in critical condition. Also happening in Indy over the weekend were other serious incidents including 3 children and 2 women getting shot in an apartment attack and police shot and killed an armed, suicidal(?) man. (And a pedestrian was struck and killed downtown.) And last week there was a quadruple homicide on the near north side.
I don't want to diminish our own very serious problems, but like Indy and others with a better reputation (whether justified or not) we can't let such tragedies get in the way of rebuilding the city.
I don't want to diminish our own very serious problems, but like Indy and others with a better reputation (whether justified or not) we can't let such tragedies get in the way of rebuilding the city.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/us/so ... .html?_r=0
This is the most horrifying thing I have ever seen. And people wonder why the African-American community is suspicious of the police? Had this not been filmed by this guy with a cell phone, I highly doubt this police officer would have been charged. His fellow officers were basically circling the wagons around him, and it's pretty evident that some gave false statements in regards to the victim being given CPR. Just shameful.
This is the most horrifying thing I have ever seen. And people wonder why the African-American community is suspicious of the police? Had this not been filmed by this guy with a cell phone, I highly doubt this police officer would have been charged. His fellow officers were basically circling the wagons around him, and it's pretty evident that some gave false statements in regards to the victim being given CPR. Just shameful.
Yeah, that's ****ed up.Ebsy wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/us/so ... .html?_r=0
This is the most horrifying thing I have ever seen. And people wonder why the African-American community is suspicious of the police? Had this not been filmed by this guy with a cell phone, I highly doubt this police officer would have been charged. His fellow officers were basically circling the wagons around him, and it's pretty evident that some gave false statements in regards to the victim being given CPR. Just shameful.
It's sickening (and very revealing) that the cover-up was well underway before the video was released. Now even the usual cop apologists are saying that the killing is totally indefensible.
It's sad, though not surprising, that it takes a video for people to believe that the police are capable of something like this. The cameraman is a hero.
It's sad, though not surprising, that it takes a video for people to believe that the police are capable of something like this. The cameraman is a hero.
I know, it's amazing that people choose to pick what position to believe based off of the facts.wustl_eng wrote:It's sickening (and very revealing) that the cover-up was well underway before the video was released. Now even the usual cop apologists are saying that the killing is totally indefensible.
It's sad, though not surprising, that it takes a video for people to believe that the police are capable of something like this. The cameraman is a hero.
You missed my point entirely. For some people the police are like the Pope in that they're never in the wrong in any situation, even though there's a long history of that being demonstrably untrue. If there were no video in this case, the usual apologists would be defending the cop.
As a country we're far too credulous when it comes to police narratives. Thank God for iPhones--cops lie all the time, but video doesn't.
As a country we're far too credulous when it comes to police narratives. Thank God for iPhones--cops lie all the time, but video doesn't.
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Hear, hearwustl_eng wrote:You missed my point entirely. For some people the police are like the Pope in that they're never in the wrong in any situation, even though there's a long history of that being demonstrably untrue. If there were no video in this case, the usual apologists would be defending the cop.
As a country we're far too credulous when it comes to police narratives. Thank God for iPhones--cops lie all the time, but video doesn't.
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How do you reconcile the idea that crime is entirely down to personal choices, with admitting that there are external factors correlated to crime (or being good at math or whatever)? If external forces were not a factor, we'd see criminal activity distributed randomly across race, geography, income, etc. And if external forces are at play, then that's something we can attempt to study and solve, beyond just tut-tutting at poor people.leeharveyawesome wrote: I think we have a few issues though. Given your belief that the some sort of social construct or bureaucratic structure has a direct result in human behavior then please share what makes Asians better at math and science because we all want to know? Take the last 5000 homicides in the City of St. Louis. If 4950 of the 5000 are from one group of people then I think we have problem larger than capital flight or tax code or a bad teacher problem. The percentage is just too insane to ignore. I know this a painful contemplation. I don't like it either and I don't let it effect my daily life.
(I do appreciate your compliment of my writing.)
No, I understood your point. I just think it's not true. There wasn't a whole lot of support for the cop in the Eric Garner case. Tamir Rice was a little more confrontational, but there was logic behind those that supported the officer (which I disagree with). I'm not as familiar with the case in Madison. Is there a small component that takes the cops side on everything regardless of evidence? Of course. Is there a small component that takes the side against the police every time regardless of evidence? Yup (see: protestors that showed up against the police at the scene where the Boston officer got shot in the face). However, I think most people look at it on a case-by-case basis, as they should, and determine it based off the evidence they see.wustl_eng wrote:You missed my point entirely. For some people the police are like the Pope in that they're never in the wrong in any situation, even though there's a long history of that being demonstrably untrue. If there were no video in this case, the usual apologists would be defending the cop.
As a country we're far too credulous when it comes to police narratives. Thank God for iPhones--cops lie all the time, but video doesn't.
- 1,868
What do you mean "would"? They were defending him until the video came out.wustl_eng wrote:You missed my point entirely. For some people the police are like the Pope in that they're never in the wrong in any situation, even though there's a long history of that being demonstrably untrue. If there were no video in this case, the usual apologists would be defending the cop.
As a country we're far too credulous when it comes to police narratives. Thank God for iPhones--cops lie all the time, but video doesn't.
Having said that, video does lie occassionally.
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Another night of gunplay and shootings.
Out of control! This could have easily been 3 separate shootings, 6 murders, then there would be widespread outrage. 3 double shootings, even if there are none dead, should garner just as much outrage. I'm so sick of hearing about this gunplay, violence and murder every night. Something has got to be done!
http://fox2now.com/2015/04/16/6-injured ... -st-louis/
Out of control! This could have easily been 3 separate shootings, 6 murders, then there would be widespread outrage. 3 double shootings, even if there are none dead, should garner just as much outrage. I'm so sick of hearing about this gunplay, violence and murder every night. Something has got to be done!
http://fox2now.com/2015/04/16/6-injured ... -st-louis/
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It may sound very cold, but the only thing that really matters about crime in St. Louis is where it's happening. The geography of crime is the story here. Crime is no more random than any other aspect of society.DogtownBnR wrote:Another night of gunplay and shootings.
Out of control! This could have easily been 3 separate shootings, 6 murders, then there would be widespread outrage. 3 double shootings, even if there are none dead, should garner just as much outrage. I'm so sick of hearing about this gunplay, violence and murder every night. Something has got to be done!
http://fox2now.com/2015/04/16/6-injured ... -st-louis/
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New cameras are up downtown. They have blinking blue and red led lights. Channel 5 just did a tour of the room where these cameras are reviewed. I think they said there +600 private and public cameras currently feeding to the review center.
^ Camera's are really becoming a big in a lot of different ways. My new hometown Lafayette in Cali is relative quiet, affluent with very little violent crime. However, the area is subject at various times to strings of petty thief, auto theft, so forth. The city police are really aggressive apprehending and will seek camera footage from anyone as soon as they get a report and most people are glad to turn over as quick as possible. I think a big part of it is citizens who are demanding apprehension more so than patrol as well as the reality of a well funded police department.
The police department has also added non descript small cameras on stop signs/major intersections that are angled as such that it will give a good view of the license plates. Camera's are relative small and believe most people don't know that they are there. Goes back to apprehending. Police get a report of a auto theft or a crime and the stop sign cameras are monitored and reviewed for licenses plates of cars that match a description. Pretty slick in apprehending individuals.
Second, the city police department has floated the idea to the City Council/City Manager of paying or reimbursing residents for their private security cameras in return for upfront consent of use and complete digital access/connection to the feed. In other words, reports of a petty theft that morning and the police can immediately access various neighborhood/house security cameras.
The police department has also added non descript small cameras on stop signs/major intersections that are angled as such that it will give a good view of the license plates. Camera's are relative small and believe most people don't know that they are there. Goes back to apprehending. Police get a report of a auto theft or a crime and the stop sign cameras are monitored and reviewed for licenses plates of cars that match a description. Pretty slick in apprehending individuals.
Second, the city police department has floated the idea to the City Council/City Manager of paying or reimbursing residents for their private security cameras in return for upfront consent of use and complete digital access/connection to the feed. In other words, reports of a petty theft that morning and the police can immediately access various neighborhood/house security cameras.
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This already happens in many American cities. http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/02/0 ... y-systems/dredger wrote:^ Camera's are really becoming a big in a lot of different ways. My new hometown Lafayette in Cali is relative quiet, affluent with very little violent crime. However, the area is subject at various times to strings of petty thief, auto theft, so forth. The city police are really aggressive apprehending and will seek camera footage from anyone as soon as they get a report and most people are glad to turn over as quick as possible. I think a big part of it is citizens who are demanding apprehension more so than patrol as well as the reality of a well funded police department.
The police department has also added non descript small cameras on stop signs/major intersections that are angled as such that it will give a good view of the license plates. Camera's are relative small and believe most people don't know that they are there. Goes back to apprehending. Police get a report of a auto theft or a crime and the stop sign cameras are monitored and reviewed for licenses plates of cars that match a description. Pretty slick in apprehending individuals.
Second, the city police department has floated the idea to the City Council/City Manager of paying or reimbursing residents for their private security cameras in return for upfront consent of use and complete digital access/connection to the feed. In other words, reports of a petty theft that morning and the police can immediately access various neighborhood/house security cameras.
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Yeah. In the channel 5 report they said many are private cameras.
i'm somewhat of a libertarian, but keeping St. Louis safe is more of a priority to me. I'd love for cameras to be everywhere, all over the city, including ones that scan license plates to catch criminals. I'd even be all about facial recognition cameras downtown to find criminals. Technology has certainly helped catch many criminals that would previously been impossible. I'm all for London style cameras on every block downtown.
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Chicago streets are bloody too. Chi-raq, some call it.
http://gawker.com/five-killed-and-at-le ... 1698969315
However the "rolling gun battles" along our highways are just as insane.
Clearly there is something stirring the violent crime pot in the urban midwest. Is it the heroin trade?
http://gawker.com/five-killed-and-at-le ... 1698969315
However the "rolling gun battles" along our highways are just as insane.
Clearly there is something stirring the violent crime pot in the urban midwest. Is it the heroin trade?
There appears to have been a bomb scare at City hall during the aldermanic swearing in this morning.
Well, my coworker first alerted me to this coming back from lunch (he parks near here), but here's the STLToday story: a man shot to death in broad daylight right near the City Museum today. Even with all the extra cops on the streets. I hope to God no visitors in town for the robotics championship were nearby or otherwise witnesses to our City living up to one of the stereotypes. This is terrible news:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... abd29.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... abd29.html
