Crime Thread

bigmclargehuge · PostJan 15, 2015#48512015-01-15T15:13+00:00

http://www.kmov.com/news/crime/Three-ea ... 53361.html

Now they are saying 6 have been killed. We were doing so well this month. Only two before last night.

leeharveyawesome · PostJan 15, 2015#48522015-01-15T15:19+00:00

Shooting at Chouteau and 14th this morning during rush hour screwed up traffic badly. Streets all blocked off.

dbInSouthCity · PostJan 15, 2015#48532015-01-15T15:24+00:00

leeharveyawesome wrote:Shooting at Chouteau and 14th this morning during rush hour screwed up traffic badly. Streets all blocked off.

word is domestic dispute...

downtown2007 · PostJan 15, 2015#48542015-01-15T15:28+00:00

Stay and be a part of the solution or leave and be a part of the problem.

Sadly I expected this. Arrests are down 40% and the cops are frightened to do anything in fear of killing someone that was in the process of committing a violent crime. Unfortunately people would be more upset if a cop killed someone in the act of a crime instead of a criminal killing an innocent victim.

We need to band together and tell leaders it's not tolerated.

DogtownBnR · PostJan 15, 2015#48552015-01-15T15:35+00:00

^You bring up a good point. Are thugs now more bold, knowing cops are less likely to use deadly force? Do they disrespect law enforcement even more, after seeing how far they were able to push the cops with no recourse. I wonder if criminals are running wild more than normal, due to this new found confidence.

MarkHaversham · PostJan 15, 2015#48562015-01-15T15:37+00:00

DogtownBnR wrote:^You bring up a good point. Are thugs now more bold, knowing cops are less likely to use deadly force? Do they disrespect law enforcement even more, after seeing how far they were able to push the cops with no recourse. I wonder if criminals are running wild more than normal, due to this new found confidence.

That would be pretty ridiculous, since nobody is protesting cops using deadly force when necessary. It's when they murder jaywalkers, buskers and kids with toy guns that people get upset.

True_dope · PostJan 15, 2015#48572015-01-15T15:37+00:00

I do believe the city needs to raise the income tax to 2 percent an extra 300 million a year would really go a long way.
50 million more cops
50 million social workers and youth programs
50 million schools and child wellness programs
100 over 10 years to build N/S metro and central streetcar
50 million for building stabilization and neighborhood clean up and cameras
all of this would reduce crime

Me and my wife talking about this bad news today and we are still planing to move downtown just to put that out there

mattonarsenal · PostJan 15, 2015#48582015-01-15T15:38+00:00

stlgasm wrote:Even when compared to peer cities, our urban core has higher crime than most. Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, DC, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle, etc. All have relatively small city boundaries and all have lower homicide rates than St. Louis.

Why?

This is a key question, and the answer is not the number of police on the street. Here is some quick data on cops per capita from the Census (Pop.) and Wikipedia (Cops. from PD pages)...

Police force (officers/1,000 pop.):
CIN: 3.5/1,000
CLE: 3.9/1,000
PIT: 3.0/1,000
STL: 5.8/1,000

No amount of cops was going to stop the burglary and murder at the Drury Inn, this is systemic.

roger wyoming II · PostJan 15, 2015#48592015-01-15T15:49+00:00

DogtownBnR wrote:^You bring up a good point. Are thugs now more bold, knowing cops are less likely to use deadly force? Do they disrespect law enforcement even more, after seeing how far they were able to push the cops with no recourse. I wonder if criminals are running wild more than normal, due to this new found confidence.

Evidence from around the region suggests that police are not less bold to use deadly force.

True_dope · PostJan 15, 2015#48602015-01-15T15:56+00:00

Also cops can't stop some one from shooting someone unless they know something before hand like a tip
Also about crime it is going up in the county to I think. On Friday night I herd 5 gunshots in Kirkwood of all places. With the event yesterday by Edward Jones. it is safe to say criminals across the region maybe the country are empowered. Also things are not perfect in NYC crime numbers btw http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc ... -1.2062914

southsidepride · PostJan 15, 2015#48612015-01-15T16:03+00:00

moorlander wrote:It's tough to look at social media today. I have already seen multiple posts from city residents announcing it's time to leave. sigh

I'm seeing posts from county residents that they'll think twice before going to The Hill

I tell them to step back and realize this crime, while awful, happened at a hotel with easy access to the interstate at 3 a.m.
While shocking this really doesn't have anything to do with the surrounding neighborhoods, which are some of the safest in the city. Penalizing businesses there would be the acme of foolishness.

Again, not to speak ill of the victim as he is truly the victim but what was he thinking in resisting the robbery ?

There appears to be good footage of this scum so hopefully he will be caught soon and sent away for the rest of his miserable life.

roger wyoming II · PostJan 15, 2015#48622015-01-15T16:04+00:00

There was a deadly police shooting in Franklin Co, last night as well.

leeharveyawesome · PostJan 15, 2015#48632015-01-15T16:05+00:00

MarkHaversham wrote:
DogtownBnR wrote:^You bring up a good point. Are thugs now more bold, knowing cops are less likely to use deadly force? Do they disrespect law enforcement even more, after seeing how far they were able to push the cops with no recourse. I wonder if criminals are running wild more than normal, due to this new found confidence.
That would be pretty ridiculous, since nobody is protesting cops using deadly force when necessary. It's when they murder jaywalkers, buskers and kids with toy guns that people get upset.

Riiiight because this just happens all the time and the cops are the ones who are terrorizing the city. You and people like you are responsible for creating a worse monster than there already was EVEN IF there needs to be a few things addressed in the way policing is done.

I'm going to create a new word for Urban Dictionary. It's the "haversham". I can't explain what a "haversham" is but I know it when I see it. You could use it as a verb...."you just got havershammed". I'm working on the exact definition right now.

I bet your glad you are going to work today sitting in the faculty lounge or balancing spreadsheets or whatever it is that you do and you don't have to go to work and find out your assignment for the day is to go and find that guy with the gun who shot a few people last night. Instead you could sit around and "haversham" people on the Internet.

Now go get your ***** shinebox.

bigmclargehuge · PostJan 15, 2015#48642015-01-15T16:12+00:00

I know murders started spiking like 6 months before the "F" word situation happened. So cant blame F on that. . .however i still think there is some validity in it. I think, as of middle of last year, crime was trending way down. Then middle of the year it started to pick up. And it basically erased the gains to near zero increase/decrease by the end of the year

What happened middle of the year. . .the "F' word. You cant blame it for everthing but there is some correlation there. Roger has been pretty good at sifting through the crime data. Does that sound right/possible?

southsidepride · PostJan 15, 2015#48652015-01-15T16:15+00:00

^^Wow. Really uncalled for
but I get it. You live in a black and white world (no pun intended) where you're either fer us or agin us. Police are always right and anyone who thinks there might be the very occasional instance where they are not (12yr old kid with a toy gun killed within seconds) is no better than a thug and just needs to shut up.

Honestly I've had it with extremists on both sides. Those who say the cops are never right (I.e. the immediate protesters of the Shaw and Berkeley self defense police shootings) and people like you who seem to really want a police state.

The STL Today comments might be a better place for you.

roger wyoming II · PostJan 15, 2015#48662015-01-15T16:23+00:00

^^ big, I think that is generally true.... with homicides, the uptick actually began in the second half of 2013 and then accelerated even further last fall. I really haven't looked at aggravated assaults, etc. to see if they also might have begun an uptick in 2013 but as a whole non-homicide crimes were going down before last fall. So I think it is safe to say there has been some direct connection but the precise reasons are probably complicated.

dbInSouthCity · PostJan 15, 2015#48672015-01-15T16:29+00:00

Mayor Slay's 2017 Campaign Slogan - "5th time is the charm to reduce crime"

robertn42 · PostJan 15, 2015#48682015-01-15T16:32+00:00

True_dope wrote:I do believe the city needs to raise the income tax to 2 percent an extra 300 million a year would really go a long way.
50 million more cops
50 million social workers and youth programs
50 million schools and child wellness programs
100 over 10 years to build N/S metro and central streetcar
50 million for building stabilization and neighborhood clean up and cameras
all of this would reduce crime

Me and my wife talking about this bad news today and we are still planing to move downtown just to put that out there

That's good and I hope you enjoy the experience as much as I did. Our reality down there was much different than the perception the local news portrays.

Downtown living provides you great walkability, easy access to restaurants, bars, cultural/sporting events, and mass transit. Not to mention some of the best architecture in the US. There is also a truly great and diverse neighborhood/community there. Have an awareness of your surroundings and you will be fine.

I logged 7 years down there (incident free) with my girlfriend (eventually wife). The final year of which we added our newborn to our loft before my wife dragged me by my ear to south city.

I miss downtown. I miss the people. I miss this view...

If you have any questions about moving downtown please ask.

MarkHaversham · PostJan 15, 2015#48692015-01-15T16:33+00:00

leeharveyawesome wrote:
MarkHaversham wrote:
DogtownBnR wrote:^You bring up a good point. Are thugs now more bold, knowing cops are less likely to use deadly force? Do they disrespect law enforcement even more, after seeing how far they were able to push the cops with no recourse. I wonder if criminals are running wild more than normal, due to this new found confidence.
That would be pretty ridiculous, since nobody is protesting cops using deadly force when necessary. It's when they murder jaywalkers, buskers and kids with toy guns that people get upset.

Riiiight because this just happens all the time and the cops are the ones who are terrorizing the city. You and people like you are responsible for creating a worse monster than there already was EVEN IF there needs to be a few things addressed in the way policing is done.

I'm going to create a new word for Urban Dictionary. It's the "haversham". I can't explain what a "haversham" is but I know it when I see it. You could use it as a verb...."you just got havershammed". I'm working on the exact definition right now.

I bet your glad you are going to work today sitting in the faculty lounge or balancing spreadsheets or whatever it is that you do and you don't have to go to work and find out your assignment for the day is to go and find that guy with the gun who shot a few people last night. Instead you could sit around and "haversham" people on the Internet.

Now go get your f***ing shinebox.

I just stated a fact that people are protesting the unjustified and illegal use of force by cops in cases where it was not required. None of the cases being protested involved police coming upon an instance of violent crime in progress. Heaven forfend that we consider holding police accountable for grossly illegal actions.

I don't think acknowledging that police sometimes do bad things is akin to giving criminals free reign, or that there's any virtue in insisting all criminals are raving feral animals and all police are angelic beings who can do no wrong. I do think that a complete lack of nuance in thought is the sign of a weak mind.

siu850956106 · PostJan 15, 2015#48702015-01-15T16:37+00:00

First post in a while.

I am curious what, if anything, citizens are doing. Are neighborhoods, or particular streets creating neighborhood watches in earnest? What about private security contractors as many streets in DB place and CWE have? Lastly, what is attitude toward concealed carry in the city? Have recent event made some people more interested?

leeharveyawesome · PostJan 15, 2015#48712015-01-15T16:41+00:00

southsidepride wrote:^^Wow. Really uncalled for
but I get it. You live in a black and white world (no pun intended) where you're either fer us or agin us. Police are always right and anyone who thinks there might be the very occasional instance where they are not (12yr old kid with a toy gun killed within seconds) is no better than a thug and just needs to shut up.

Honestly I've had it with extremists on both sides. Those who say the cops are never right (I.e. the immediate protesters of the Shaw and Berkeley self defense police shootings) and people like you who seem to really want a police state.

The STL Today comments might be a better place for you.

I don't want a police state. In fact, I don't even particularly care for cops. I just RESPECT cops and I KNOW THE GAME.

Everyone on either side of any argument nowadays always points out the extreme exception rather than the general rule. Just because someone trades their EBT for a bag of crack doesn't mean the entire Supplemental Nutrition Program should be scrapped, right? A few bad bankers and we should close down Wall Street? It's a mess.

I'm a fool for logging on and commenting. I know that. I'm trying to stop.

southsidepride · PostJan 15, 2015#48722015-01-15T16:44+00:00

^^In Soulard we circulate victims impact statements whenever a perp is caught. You sign anonymously as a resident of the neighborhood and those have definitely helped in getting stricter sentences for repeat offenders.

I highly suggest working with your neighborhood organization to do the same wherever you live

jsbru · PostJan 15, 2015#48732015-01-15T16:54+00:00

stlgasm wrote:The random crime is frightening and out of control. Loyal city dwellers have long defended the city with the understanding that violent crime is rarely random. The past several months, we have heard about random killings on an almost weekly basis.

Let's be fair here. There were 6 killings last night, and only one appeared to be random. Three were domestic disputes, and two were drug-related.

As far as the random crimes go (and I say this NOT to blame the victims in any way), they both happened when someone tried to resist an armed robbery. You have to just realize that when someone has a gun on you, they have the upper hand, and you're their b****. Eat your pride for a bit. Survive. Go after them later.

jstriebel · PostJan 15, 2015#48742015-01-15T16:57+00:00

MarkHaversham wrote:
DogtownBnR wrote:^You bring up a good point. Are thugs now more bold, knowing cops are less likely to use deadly force? Do they disrespect law enforcement even more, after seeing how far they were able to push the cops with no recourse. I wonder if criminals are running wild more than normal, due to this new found confidence.
That would be pretty ridiculous, since nobody is protesting cops using deadly force when necessary. It's when they murder jaywalkers, buskers and kids with toy guns that people get upset.

I'm not inclined to believe that cops are any more reluctant to use force, but I think you're point is off.

Right now the norm in a police shooting is for the protestors (who I largely support) to simply call the police liars and question their story, and thus treat the police shooting as if it was entirely unwarranted.

PostJan 15, 2015#48752015-01-15T17:03+00:00

Our politicians may not be able to do that much in reality, but I think it's long-since time for them to vocally call for action. It's time to start talking a good game.

I have ALWAYS been okay with spinning the crime stats because the spin isn't wrong. It's all valid points. My view point has always been that we might as well spin it as best we can for good PR as long we're also fighting the crime still, and there's no reason we couldn't do both.

And that's all well and good, but enough is enough. They cannot keep ignoring these murders by talking about reduced overall crime.

If Slay and Dotson won't do it, maybe we should do it ourselves. Anybody up for a Citizen's Task Force on Crime? I'm not talking about a vigilante neighborhood watch (although watches wouldn't be bad). I'm talking about ideas and lobbying. If the politicians won't be vocal, we can be, and maybe we'll force their hand.

Crime Thread

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