urbanSTL

Wow, I have so much to add to this thread this morning!

leeharveyawesome wrote:Does anyone know what the NRA has to say about illegal gun crimes or possession? Do they take a strong position like they do on the right to own? Do they lobby for any particular laws, sentencing, etc?

The general position of the NRA seems to be very pro-enforcement of gun laws that are currently on the books. Felony charges for things like straw purchases, violent crime, etc. They are also in favor of enhanced sentencing for people who commit crimes with guns. Its a generalization but, when you look past the rhetoric and bluster their position basically seems to be "We have laws on the books that need to be enforced strictly and properly before we can talk about making new laws that will generally inconvenience law abiding citizens far more than criminals."

MarkHaversham wrote:Do they support subsidizing conceal carry licenses for young men in the inner city? The wealth gap seems like an obvious oversight in CCW legislation.

I believe you're being facetious here, but as a metro east resident, this is something I've actually written my legislators about. We only recently got CCW in IL, and its basically out of reach for people who need it the most. If you buy the idea that self defense is a right (if you don't, that's fine too - this isn't the place to argue about that), then what IL has in place is very similar to a poll tax. To get my CCW, I needed:

Two (consecutive) weekdays off work for the classes.
$250 for the classes.
$120 (i think - can't quite remember) fee to the state to apply for the license.
$40 fingerprinting fee.
This of course doesn't even cover the cost of the firearm, ammunition, holsters, equipment, etc.

Now, I'm fortunate enough to have a good job and the relative flexibility to where I could manage this with minimal inconvenience. If I have the misfortune to be a poor guy in East St. Louis, taking two days off from my retail job, likely without pay is probably a nonstarter. I'm probably living paycheck to paycheck, so that financial burden is very high. And, ironically, if I take public transit to work (which I'm more likely to do), I'm prohibited from carrying there. This effectively means I can't carry at all on a day-to-day basis despite the fact that statistically, I'm much more likely to be a victim than fat, white, lucky audac1ty.

The current laws are absolutely discriminatory, and I would see some of the fees dropped or assessed on a "ability to pay" basis.

Broken into two posts since this is unrelated to my last one.

Its East Saint Louis, but figured there would be interest here regardless (apologies, as this happened this morning and this is largely copy/pasted from my steam of consciousness recounting from immediately afterwards) :

I'm driving into work this morning. Approximately 9:45am, South on 55 towards St. Louis.
I'm in the center lane and a Blue Mustang comes screaming up on my left… I was going 73ish and he blew by like i was standing still, so he must have been going at least 90, maybe 100?

He immediately cuts right in front of me as soon as he passes… i mean inches.. maybe 4-5 inches from my front bumper? I slam on my brakes andhe accelerates again and veers over into the far right lane. Initially, I just think its a super douchey driver but then maybe 5-7 seconds later 2 cop cars come racing up just as fast.

They're all going faster than me, and get around a curve ahead, out of eyesight then I hear a big "bang" that sounded like a tire blowing or a firework or something.

I round the curve and there's a semi in the right lane, stopped with damage to its front the cop car is stopped basically perpendicular to the road and the mustang is in the ditch, flipped over and smoking.

2 (maybe 3? couldn't tell if the guy trailing was a cop or a suspect) guys sprint from the mustang onto southbound 55, cross the median and run onto northbound 55, weaving between traffic.

Then a guy who's definitely a cop sprints after them into the woods on the other side of 55 north with his gun drawn.

Truck driver standing in the shoulder looking confused as hell.
Debris all over the road.

Myself and the other drivers that witnessed it kind of waited for a minute but eventually nothing else seemed to happen and we all just sort of wove between the debris and drove on.

Just about the time i was leaving, like 4 more ESTL cop cars come racing up (heading north on 55)
and the all hop out of their cars too.

No shots fired or anything, but still a scary thing to be involved in.

edit: here's a photo I grabbed in the immediate aftermath. doesn't show the whole scene unfortunately, but there's the car:

My friend in Dallas had his truck stolen yesterday. One way to track the truck that was discussed in the facebook comments is by checking if the toll booth pass (e-z pass) was scanned. That would be one added benefit of having toll roads/bridges.

A stabbing at Chuck E Cheese near South County Center last night and a shooting near West County mall this afternoon.

OMG, stay out of the county! Don't go west of Skinker unless you are armed to the hilt ! West/South County is dead lol.

southsidepride wrote:A stabbing at Chuck E Cheese near South County Center last night and a shooting near West County mall this afternoon.

OMG, stay out of the county! Don't go west of Skinker unless you are armed to the hilt ! West/South County is dead lol.

I get what you're saying but there's another to look at it. It's clear over the last few years that the creep of crime and decay is headed to the suburbs. The job was completed on many parts of the city proper and there's just not that many people left. How many people live north of Delmar? It's not even Peoria or Youngstown or Racine. It's not a "big city". We had SUBURBAN riots and looting. Why? Because that's where the people are now. I would say in 20 years there will be more County homicides than City homicides. That's my prediction.

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Police-r ... 78551.html

OMG west county is a dangerous don't west of 270 yet people are scared of the city

^leeharvey, 100k people live north of Delmar (at least as of 2010 census, so maybe subtract 5-10k or something) http://dynamic.stlouis-mo.gov/census/corridor.cfm So not Peoria but bigger than Youngstown/Racine... point being there's more people there than you'd expect. I would also add that violent crimes like homicide are still overwhelmingly concentrated in the city.

So a FIRST time mugger gets only a few years?! Someone that threatens someone else's life with a weapon, fake or real, gets a few years. Again, I think we make it 20-30 years minimum. No excuses.

Boom. Four homicides in the City last night including the night manager at the Drury Inn on Hampton. Just like that we can pro-rate this out and get back on track for a record year.

roger wyoming II wrote:^ too many people think of North Saint Louis as tumbleweeds.... with 100,000 people (although probably still declining) in what, max 40 sq. mi. of land, it still has pretty decent density in many areas and enough to support light rail along the preferred corridor.

With those numbers its got to be the least dense place ever to be in the conversation for a light rail project.

"It's time for local officials to step it up- get in front of the cameras and talk to the citizens about what measures they are going to take to address this crisis"

Wish it were that easy. Politicians cannot stop crime. Cops cannot stop crime. Crime goes where there is opportunity.

This is an awful incident. Four murders in one night is insane. And this is happening in the cold weather season.

Virvus Jones is right: poverty is the father of crime. These criminals are desperate individuals. The only thing they know how to do well is break the law.

When going to prison doesn't frighten you, when your life on the street is worse than life "on the inside", you have nothing to lose.

I really don't have any idea what local officials can do to address this problem.

The intersection of Hampton and 44 is one of the busiest in the city, but this happened at 3 am when things are pretty quiet. Still, there are doubtless scores of security cameras all through that area.

As sad as the events that occurred last night are, there's no doubt the clerk violated Drury's policy. There's no way a corporation advises its employees to resist armed robbers. When a desperate criminal pulls a gun on you in a robbery, the best thing to do is not look them in the eye and hand over a pile of cash.

And while this incident occurred in STL city, Hampton and 44 is about as "suburban" as you get in the city. The Drury there fits the model of motels built on highway interchanges. Easy in, easy out, and high visibility/high traffic. MODOT's office is right behind the Drury.

The future we're likely to see is more armed, private security at local businesses.

stlgasm wrote:The random crime is frightening and out of control. Loyal city dwellers have long defended the city with the understanding that violent crime is rarely random. The past several months, we have heard about random killings on an almost weekly basis. What can be done? Forget start-ups, NFL stadiums, light rail, Ikea, historic rehabs, etc- getting a grip on this mess should be the #1 priority, or we don't even have a chance at sustaining anything else on our wish list. It's time for local officials to step it up- get in front of the cameras and talk to the citizens about what measures they are going to take to address this crisis, or all the progress St. Louis has made over the last decade will be erased in no time.

I agree with this completely. We need the Mayor to shout from the rooftops that this will not be tolerated and announce his plan to suppress it.

I agree with this completely. We need the Mayor to shout from the rooftops that this will not be tolerated and announce his plan to suppress it.

Interesting to note that the mayor's long time chief of staff just announced yesterday he is retiring.

Politicians have a hard time dealing with crime issues. Look at the long running feud between the mayor's office and Antonio French. French has made crime his #1 issue, and he's sort of persona non grata around city hall.

If you were mayor, what would you do?

Maybe we should start a massive stop and frisk initiative?

gasm, you could not have said it better. This is SO serious. Been a southsider my entire life and I cannot recall this level of crime in South City. It has always been bad in North City, but now, areas are being touched by crime regularly. City officials need to realize that for sale signs go up because of crime. People get scared when crime hits close to home. Petty crimes seem to happen every night in the nice areas of south city. It is the violent crimes like the Robinson Jewelry bank robbery, kidnapping, the Drury murder, the hammer murder in Bevo. That is the kind of stuff that is bold and sometimes hard to solve. When the thugs steal cars to commit crimes, wear masks, gloves, hoodies and the camera quality sucks, these crimes are hard to solve. I think it has to start with the courts and justice system in general. Also, more cops are definitely needed. You can't hot spot police one area and leave another short-handed. I feel like the PD is neglecting nicer areas to address Downtown and other hot spots. The stats are getting worse south of 40.

I think fixing education and family is a good idea as well, but will take a lot longer. Fixing policing and the courts can lead to quicker results. Crime is out of control right now and I don't care what the stats say. It is hitting close to home every night and this sh-t is not just gangsta and drug related. The crime is getting random and bold. The City needs to address this NOW!!!

Hate to be completely sarcastic, but if you combine our rates with the county's we're fine. That sentiment annoyed me to no end.

Anyway, I think we need to get that gun docket and some of the other proposed reforms on the judicial side of things as well as have a special tax/bond that can pay for more cameras and police as well as more investments in these troubled neighborhoods... more rec centers, transit, etc. We also need more businesses involved in the youth jobs program as well. We all need to see if we can increase our own involvement in the community, And the region needs to redirect the urgency given to the proposed Rams stadium to addressing real needs.... losing the Rams would be much less of a blow to our image than being a perennial winner of the homicide crown; I think we have 2014 pretty much locked down and we can't afford a repeat.

Also, I might recommend seeing the Saving Saint Louis film arch posted on another thread.

Northside Neighbor wrote:

I agree with this completely. We need the Mayor to shout from the rooftops that this will not be tolerated and announce his plan to suppress it.

Interesting to note that the mayor's long time chief of staff just announced yesterday he is retiring.

Politicians have a hard time dealing with crime issues. Look at the long running feud between the mayor's office and Antonio French. French has made crime his #1 issue, and he's sort of persona non grata around city hall.

If you were mayor, what would you do?

Maybe we should start a massive stop and frisk initiative?

Jeff didn't retire. After 14 years he's going to the private sector.

What should the mayor do? That's the million dollar question isn't it. Don't we so often hear about this stuff being gang related? How about additional resources (possibly federal monies?) to bulster the gang/drug/gun special task force. Revisit the use of cameras for policing. Announce a committee to find money for more police. Lock everyone on the staff in a room until they come up with an improved plan of attack.

Moorlander, If you have kids, this random crime strikes fear in you. Very violent crimes happening on a nightly basis, many of which have been random. While pushing the panic button is not something I would do, I cannot blame a family or single mom, for wanting to move, due to all of this craziness. The Robinson Jewelry kidnapping/robbery is a prime example of something that strikes fear in residents. So bold! The thugs have taken over this city. If they are not murdering, they are jacking, robbing or stealing. I do not have an answer, but the City better get one soon. I know several people that are moving because they are sick of burglaries, broken windows and serious crime close to home. This is in normally quiet hoods, with nice homes, involved neighbors and long time residents. Serious action needs to be taken or the population bleed will only get worse. I am here to stay, but it is sad to see great people flee to the burbs over this BS. It angers me beyond belief, what these lowlife thugs are doing to the city.