urbanSTL

A bunch of car break-ins outside of Chaifetz last night...this is getting almost humorous. Saturday Night Live should do a parody of all the crime in our city...What IS GOING ON?

I've noticed this thing and it's nothing particularly new and I've been guilty of it myself. It's when people sort of do this twisted bravado thing where they're like "Oh, I got mugged at gunpoint" or something like that like it's some sort of badge of honor or something. Like somehow this implies some sort of toughness or savvy that just not everyone else possesses because they are weak or stupid or something. I saw on Nextdoor where some girl mentioned her car got stolen and she wasn't thrilled about it and someone comes along and says "If you can't handle it then move to the suburbs" like somehow this person who replied was tougher and cooler than the person who dares to mention crime.

It's that whole "Oh you should have seen New York in the 70s now that's when you had to be tough and not a p**** like you" thing. Oh and Detroit forget about it. Nothing can make some of the twisted bravado people squeal with envy more than when a white person from Detroit city comes along! The respect and envy is off the charts.

I don't know, it's just like this little thing that exists......

leeharveyawesome wrote:I've noticed this thing and it's nothing particularly new and I've been guilty of it myself. It's when people sort of do this twisted bravado thing where they're like "Oh, I got mugged at gunpoint" or something like that like it's some sort of badge of honor or something. Like somehow this implies some sort of toughness or savvy that just not everyone else possesses because they are weak or stupid or something.

i remember when couple high schoolers tried to mug my dad...he was cleaning his car in the ally...this was the late 90's and we lived on Magnolia east of grand...before i go on i should mention that he is 6'5 250 (age 38 when this event happened) and served in the Yugoslavian Army from age 18 to 25, lived in a war in Bosnia on the front lines in early 90s....so if you can imagine his thinking when 2 kids with knifes approached him, he put down his cig, took off his watch and 45 seconds later......the 2 guys ended up with broken legs and arms...he put on his watch back on, lite up another cig and waiting for the police....

dbInSouthCity wrote:

leeharveyawesome wrote:I've noticed this thing and it's nothing particularly new and I've been guilty of it myself. It's when people sort of do this twisted bravado thing where they're like "Oh, I got mugged at gunpoint" or something like that like it's some sort of badge of honor or something. Like somehow this implies some sort of toughness or savvy that just not everyone else possesses because they are weak or stupid or something.

i remember when couple high schoolers tried to mug my dad...he was cleaning his car in the ally...this was the late 90's and we lived on Magnolia east of grand...before i go on i should mention that he is 6'5 250 (age 38 when this event happened) and served in the Yugoslavia Army from age 18 to 25, lived in a war in Bosnia on the front lines in early 90s....so if you can imagine his thinking when 2 kids with knifes approached him, he put down his cig, took off his watch and 45 seconds later......the 2 guys ended up with broken legs and arms...he put on his watch back on, lite up another cig and waiting for the police....

Ahhhhh man that's a beautiful story. It's that whole Batman thing.

Almost as scary as the reported crimes are the unreported ones. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but we only heard about the Friday carjacking because the car was involved in the Saturday night homicide.

I've considered concealed carry, but what are the odds during a mugging you would have any chance to even pull your gun? If I had enough time to pull a gun, I'd probably have enough time to avoid being mugged in the first place.

I'm unsure about MO gun laws. But I assume I can't bring a concealed carry to work or to a bar. Which, since I live downtown and walk everywhere, would make concealed carry pretty worthless. I could carry on like 1 in 10 trips.

sirshankalot wrote:A bunch of car break-ins outside of Chaifetz last night...this is getting almost humorous. Saturday Night Live should do a parody of all the crime in our city...What IS GOING ON?

Could part of it just be that we're just more informed now a days?

Crimes are being reported more thanks to camera phones and social media. AND.... we're hearing about it more thanks to social media, 24hr news, smart phones, internet, blogs, etc. Think of all the things you missed back in the day when it was just tv, radio, and newspaper.

doesn't mean they aren't happening

Aren't carjackings way down from their height in the 90s?

I have to say...this is going to be really bad for downtown. There's a huge negative reaction out there, and people are going to just stop coming...at least for the time being.

I'm not saying the reaction is rational. How many people die in fatal accidents on the dangerous suburban highways and stroads? Traffic deaths outpace homicides basically every year. A daily 45-minute commute on 270 is more dangerous to your life than living downtown. Yet when one person gets killed with a gun, suddenly the whole city is a terrifying place.

Despite all the carjackings in South County, no one is saying "we have to move out of South County" now. Ferguson isn't even in the city...it's fairly far from it.

I understand that this kid getting killed is tragic. It was only a few blocks from where I live. It's not going to prevent me from doing what I want around my neighborhood. I'm not about to soil myself over this. People can and do get killed anywhere. Why cant we have some sort of reporting about the relative risk associated with driving in the suburbs versus murder in the city?

I mean, I don't have much faith that people will react rationally. And I do think Downtown needs to implement a supplemental, private security force like the CWE. There is something about this region's criminals in that they think it's basically open season on people's lives and property compared to most areas. I've lived on both the south and west sides of Chicago before, and never before moving to St. Louis did I ever get the window busted on my car or have people murdered steps away from my front door (I was living a block away from where Megan Boken was gunned down in the CWE when it happened). But you still have to realize that other than the freak occurrence, homicides that are directed at random citizens are incredibly rare. Most (like 90%) are between rival gangs over drugs or domestic-ish disputes between people that know each other. Getting killed in a traffic accident is much greater of a risk.

I don't think the blowback will be as bad as you think. Look to recent events....

- There was a murder at the Ventana in 2008 that didn't have an effect.

- A murder in the middle of Washington Ave in 2010.

- And Bokens murder didn't impact the CWE much.

As long as there is damage control and a focus on safety it will work itself out. People and businesses are continuing to invest in downtown despite the harsh past few months.

Actually, gun deaths are anticipated to surpass car deaths soon.

https://news.vice.com/article/guns-will ... study-says

I totally agree with that assessment.

eee123 wrote:Almost as scary as the reported crimes are the unreported ones. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but we only heard about the Friday carjacking because the car was involved in the Saturday night homicide.

I've considered concealed carry, but what are the odds during a mugging you would have any chance to even pull your gun? If I had enough time to pull a gun, I'd probably have enough time to avoid being mugged in the first place.

I'm unsure about MO gun laws. But I assume I can't bring a concealed carry to work or to a bar. Which, since I live downtown and walk everywhere, would make concealed carry pretty worthless. I could carry on like 1 in 10 trips.

I work in Stl and have my IL concealed carry license, which MO honors. I'm much more versed in IL laws than MO, but actually MO has some fairly decent laws. There is a list of prohibited places that you cannot carry (hospitals, gov't buildings, polling places, etc). I believe you can carry in MO at a bar as long as it serves food (and gets a substantial portion of its revenue from food). Obviously you cannot carry if you're intoxicated.

There is also no blanket workplace ban on carrying. In fact, unless you're in an explicitly prohibited area, you can carry. Your individual workplace may have a policy against it, and they could certainly fire you for it, but such a policy doesn't carry force of law in MO. In other words, you could lose your job, but its not a criminal offense. Likewise, (except for the explicitly prohibited places) even "No Guns" signs do not carry force of law in MO. You can be asked to leave, and if you don't you can be arrested for trespassing, disturbing the peace, etc. But once again, merely carrying the firearm isn't illegal.

All of this of course assumes that you've gotten your CCW license.

Here's a fairly good guide for MO: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/missouri.pdf.

Unfortunately, my employer has decided not allow carrying on site and thus I have to leave my firearm in the car during the day (which I dislike doing). I am generally not willing to risk losing my job to carry, though I do end up having to walk alone at night in the dark quite often which is lame.

EDIT: I should also add that you're generally right about muggings and such. If someone wants my keys/wallet/phone/whatever. I'm just going to give it to them. Even though its legal, it would be foolish to escalate such a situation; and I'm not personally willing to take a life over something so trivial. I really truly do carry it as a last resort to protect myself and the people I'm with from violence, not petty crime.

Ebsy wrote:Actually, gun deaths are anticipated to surpass car deaths soon.

https://news.vice.com/article/guns-will ... study-says

Yeah, that's kind of an equivocation there. I said "homicides," not gun deaths, which also include accidental killings and suicides.

I think people perceive driving to be safer because they have this illusion that they are more in control. But they're actually not. Not getting killed by homicide is pretty much within your control: don't join a gang and/or sell drugs, and don't enter into personal relationships with people who show signs of being prone to physical violence and bad tempers. Even in the worst neighborhoods in America, this will drop your risk of getting killed by like 90%. Even the best, safest drivers can't reduce their chances of getting into a fatal accident by that much...unless they keep their total commute to streets with a speed limit of like 30 mph or below.

I'm a big supporter of concealed carry, yet I don't do it.
It seems the best thing to ALWAYS do is just give the muggers/not-fully-developed-humans whatever they want. Never risk fighting back. I would glady turn over my wallet or used car over death.
Was the death of of the DeSmet guy the first non-criminal/ non-gangbanger killed in downtown? Sadly I don't care about people in rolling gun battles as much as I do about law abiding citizens.
Again, what is the sentencing for a first time mugger in the city? I'm for freeing people from prisons for drug related offenses (personal, not actual selling or distributing) and locking up these idiots like the recent carjacker.

What a weak story.

jcity wrote:I'm a big supporter of concealed carry, yet I don't do it.
It seems the best thing to ALWAYS do is just give the muggers/not-fully-developed-humans whatever they want. Never risk fighting back. I would glady turn over my wallet or used car over death.
Was the death of of the DeSmet guy the first non-criminal/ non-gangbanger killed in downtown? Sadly I don't care about people in rolling gun battles as much as I do about law abiding citizens.
Again, what is the sentencing for a first time mugger in the city? I'm for freeing people from prisons for drug related offenses (personal, not actual selling or distributing) and locking up these idiots like the recent carjacker.

First in a while. There was a random murder at the Ventana 5 years ago.

Does anyone know what the NRA has to say about illegal gun crimes or possession? Do they take a strong position like they do on the right to own? Do they lobby for any particular laws, sentencing, etc?

Do they support subsidizing conceal carry licenses for young men in the inner city? The wealth gap seems like an obvious oversight in CCW legislation.