roger wyoming II wrote:We're up to 119 now, one shy of all of last year.... we could wind up with 150 or so at this rate. We had 144 in 2010, btw..
Again the alarming increase in homicides began back in the summer of '13 so its hard to know what exactly is going on with respect to any Ferguson effect, but it has been accelerating even more these past few weeks.
Yeah, I said I thought it was no coincidence, but really, I see it both ways. On one hand, there could be an effect from Ferguson, but on the other hand, it seems like a cop-out when the uptick began 12-15 months ago as you correctly pointed out.
johndavis wrote:Unfortunately my cousin was one of the victims this past week on Goodfellow.
DannyJ wrote:I disagree. Easton Ave/MLK Dr. was a pretty solid retail and commercial street. 14th Street wasn't insignificant either. I don't think there was any significant imbalance between the retail options in the southside and the northside, back in the day. The southside had Cherokee Street and the Famous on Chippewa. The northside had Easton and Sears. Downtown simply was where most of the major retail was located.
I TOTALLY disagree. The only thing on Easton/MLK was GrandPa's. It was located between Kingshighway and Union. Perhaps during the heydays, when north St. Louis was largely white and transitioning, I would agree. However, as more and more African-Americans and other people of color (Filipinos, Caribbeans) moved-in, the major stores dried up. That's the situation in most urban communities across the United States.
South City had Famous-Barr, Venture, K-Mart, Sears, Target etc. North City residents had to either shop south or go to Northland, River Roads or Northwest Plaza, which was considered "way out there", to shop the major stores.
I'd love to see Easton back in the 40's/50's. It's sad that these stores closed in this area, but what do you expect if they aren't making profits? That's the ONLY reason stores exist.
I can't remember where I saw the article, but I read that the JC Penney on Martin Luther King Drive (originally Easton Avenue) was in business until 1976. The building is still there. I believe there was one on 14th Street near Crown Candy as well.
If I remember correctly, St. George was disincorporated in part out of embarrassment of a video shot by a young man pulled over by police. The good people there had the sense to ask "why are we even a town?" and sent the town to the Great Municipal Heaven in the Sky. Anyway, I think disbanding half of the forces here and having the County take over would be a good step.
The initials BBE are an acronym for "Bad Boy Entertainment." The 900 represents a "bizarre means of communication" with other gangs, McGinty said.
"The overarching motivation for BBE 900 was to intimidate both potential rivals and law-abiding citizens," Deskins said. "The BBE 900 gang bragged that they owned the streets and demonstrated the ability to assault or steal from whomever they found.
"Today, on behalf of the people of Cuyahoga County, the law enforcement community is sending the BBE 900 gang another message: 'You do not own the streets...'"
McGinty said investigators suspect the BBE 900 gang is connected with the larger, more notorious and equally as ruthless Heartless Felons, considered one of the fastest-growing gangs in Ohio.
The Heartless Felons began in Cleveland, where members worked to gain control of the Ohio Department of Youth Services' juvenile detention facilities. They eventually spread to state adult prisons, and have since returned to Cleveland, authorities said.
threeonefour wrote:I can't remember where I saw the article, but I read that the JC Penney on Martin Luther King Drive (originally Easton Avenue) was in business until 1976. The building is still there. I believe there was one on 14th Street near Crown Candy as well.
We're getting off topic, but you would be correct. The first JC Penney in St. Louis was at 2600 N 14th Street, in what was originally the home of Peters Dry Goods. It closed right before the 14th Street Mall was built. They must have known it wasn't going to be successful. The building is just two blocks south of Crown Candy, and was renovated as part of the Crown Square redevelopment. Fun fact of the day: That building is the first building I fell through a floor in.
In other crime related news, the Neighborhood Ownership Model (NOM) is really paying dividends in Old North. Crime was already relatively low, but we have been able to continue decreasing it through a lot of concerted effort on the part of neighbors and ONSLRG. Citizens keeping an eye out and reporting issues to the police and sharing with neighbors via a secured email list with only approved members so we know what to keep an eye out for is really helpful. (Nextdoor.com is just not secure enough for this. I know some people are promoting it for crime reporting, but we will never use it for that.) After a lot of effort, we finally have neighbors reporting ANYTHING that looks suspicious. We also write impact letters and go to court for every case involving the neighborhood, and it has made a big difference. It's fun to see defense lawyers delay their cases thinking we won't keep coming back, but I went to court three times for the guilty plea that finally happened today. In a weird case involving a guilty plea being withdrawn because of a mistake, I have already been to court 6 times, and will be in court tomorrow to testify in the case as I am the main witness. perseverance really does pay off. Word gets around that we are reporting everything, and the officers assigned to our area also know we are working hard to help them help us. Old North also is lucky to have a super awesome liaison officer. I know other neighborhoods are having similar success. We need to get more citizens actively involved in making their own neighborhoods safe all over the City. It really does make a difference.
Yep. My neighborhood here in U City encourages everyone to report ALL suspicious activity.
We had an officer speak at our last neighborhood meeting, and he explained that, at least in U City, all such info goes into a database which they can then use to develop "probable cause". If they get lots of reports about, say, a suspicious black Volvo with a dented right fender lurking around, that gives them the legal right to pull over the vehicle next time they see it and question the occupants.
threeonefour wrote:We're getting off topic, but you would be correct. The first JC Penney in St. Louis was at 2600 N 14th Street, in what was originally the home of Peters Dry Goods. It closed right before the 14th Street Mall was built. They must have known it wasn't going to be successful. The building is just two blocks south of Crown Candy, and was renovated as part of the Crown Square redevelopment. Fun fact of the day: That building is the first building I fell through a floor in.
Yikes! I suppose that means you've fallen through other floors, too? I knew we were veering off topic a bit; perhaps a thread about the decline in north city retail might be a good idea for a separate thread if Arch or anyone else wants to discuss that further.
In other crime related news, the Neighborhood Ownership Model (NOM) is really paying dividends in Old North. Crime was already relatively low, but we have been able to continue decreasing it through a lot of concerted effort on the part of neighbors and ONSLRG. Citizens keeping an eye out and reporting issues to the police and sharing with neighbors via a secured email list with only approved members so we know what to keep an eye out for is really helpful. (Nextdoor.com is just not secure enough for this. I know some people are promoting it for crime reporting, but we will never use it for that.) After a lot of effort, we finally have neighbors reporting ANYTHING that looks suspicious. We also write impact letters and go to court for every case involving the neighborhood, and it has made a big difference. It's fun to see defense lawyers delay their cases thinking we won't keep coming back, but I went to court three times for the guilty plea that finally happened today. In a weird case involving a guilty plea being withdrawn because of a mistake, I have already been to court 6 times, and will be in court tomorrow to testify in the case as I am the main witness. perseverance really does pay off. Word gets around that we are reporting everything, and the officers assigned to our area also know we are working hard to help them help us. Old North also is lucky to have a super awesome liaison officer. I know other neighborhoods are having similar success. We need to get more citizens actively involved in making their own neighborhoods safe all over the City. It really does make a difference.
That is awesome news about ONSL. Keep up the great work!
threeonefour wrote:We're getting off topic, but you would be correct. The first JC Penney in St. Louis was at 2600 N 14th Street, in what was originally the home of Peters Dry Goods. It closed right before the 14th Street Mall was built. They must have known it wasn't going to be successful. The building is just two blocks south of Crown Candy, and was renovated as part of the Crown Square redevelopment. Fun fact of the day: That building is the first building I fell through a floor in.
Yikes! I suppose that means you've fallen through other floors, too? I knew we were veering off topic a bit; perhaps a thread about the decline in north city retail might be a good idea for a separate thread if Arch or anyone else wants to discuss that further.
In other crime related news, the Neighborhood Ownership Model (NOM) is really paying dividends in Old North. Crime was already relatively low, but we have been able to continue decreasing it through a lot of concerted effort on the part of neighbors and ONSLRG. Citizens keeping an eye out and reporting issues to the police and sharing with neighbors via a secured email list with only approved members so we know what to keep an eye out for is really helpful. (Nextdoor.com is just not secure enough for this. I know some people are promoting it for crime reporting, but we will never use it for that.) After a lot of effort, we finally have neighbors reporting ANYTHING that looks suspicious. We also write impact letters and go to court for every case involving the neighborhood, and it has made a big difference. It's fun to see defense lawyers delay their cases thinking we won't keep coming back, but I went to court three times for the guilty plea that finally happened today. In a weird case involving a guilty plea being withdrawn because of a mistake, I have already been to court 6 times, and will be in court tomorrow to testify in the case as I am the main witness. perseverance really does pay off. Word gets around that we are reporting everything, and the officers assigned to our area also know we are working hard to help them help us. Old North also is lucky to have a super awesome liaison officer. I know other neighborhoods are having similar success. We need to get more citizens actively involved in making their own neighborhoods safe all over the City. It really does make a difference.
That is awesome news about ONSL. Keep up the great work!
How can we get the same thing going in an institutional way in other neighborhoods. I think Shaw, the Tower Groves, and other neighborhoods could really make a success of this kind of program if its formal established, promoted, and there is money and police resources formally assigned to it.
dweebe wrote:One dead in a shooting by the Arena Liquor on Hampton.
Happy Halloween St. Louis.
There is a full on killing spree happening in STL city. What is going on? I can't believe the police chief and the mayor haven't said anything. They were all over the TV for the Shaw fiasco.
dweebe wrote:One dead in a shooting by the Arena Liquor on Hampton.
Happy Halloween St. Louis.
There is a full on killing spree happening in STL city. What is going on? I can't believe the police chief and the mayor haven't said anything. They were all over the TV for the Shaw fiasco.
dweebe wrote:One dead in a shooting by the Arena Liquor on Hampton.
Happy Halloween St. Louis.
There is a full on killing spree happening in STL city. What is going on? I can't believe the police chief and the mayor haven't said anything. They were all over the TV for the Shaw fiasco.
Criminals are taking advantage of the fact that the police don't want to be charged with excessive force. For the police point of view, it's much safer wait to clean up the blood after the crime than to risk being charged with excessive force trying to stop a criminal. I thought this was self-evident. Are there people in St. Louis who DON'T realize this is what is going on?
^ Haha, your posts are always so stridently self-assured... but yeah, I would disagree and say that it's hardly "self-evident", rather a theory like any other, and that while it may factor into the uptick in homicides, there are also many other factors at work. Also to trouble that theory, how does a cop even "stop a criminal" from murdering someone when the act's over in a matter of minutes or even seconds? They can't be everywhere at once. Basically it seems a stretch to me to say that homicides are happening because cops are afraid to stop them, if that's what you're arguing.
The angle that makes sense to me would be that in the current state of unrest/protest criminals are feeling more empowered to do bad sh*t brazenly--I mean, how much more brazen can you get than killing someone and their dog at 5:30 on a busy, heavily trafficked commercial strip? But again I don't think that has much to do with this idea that cops suddenly aren't enforcing the law.
dweebe wrote:One dead in a shooting by the Arena Liquor on Hampton.
Happy Halloween St. Louis.
There is a full on killing spree happening in STL city. What is going on? I can't believe the police chief and the mayor haven't said anything. They were all over the TV for the Shaw fiasco.
Criminals are taking advantage of the fact that the police don't want to be charged with excessive force. For the police point of view, it's much safer wait to clean up the blood after the crime than to risk being charged with excessive force trying to stop a criminal. I thought this was self-evident. Are there people in St. Louis who DON'T realize this is what is going on?
Sorry: not all of us have the massive brain power you do. Please be patient with us "slow people".
Yeah its a sad time we're in i can only hope that things begin to get better. I just don't know how anyone can go home and sleep knowing they taken another life. It may of not been important life non the less its a life.If people really believe taking another life is going to justify anything then they are completely wrong.Humans are violent creatures.
There is a full on killing spree happening in STL city. What is going on? I can't believe the police chief and the mayor haven't said anything. They were all over the TV for the Shaw fiasco.[/quote]
Criminals are taking advantage of the fact that the police don't want to be charged with excessive force. For the police point of view, it's much safer wait to clean up the blood after the crime than to risk being charged with excessive force trying to stop a criminal. I thought this was self-evident. Are there people in St. Louis who DON'T realize this is what is going on?[/quote]
Sorry: not all of us have the massive brain power you do. Please be patient with us "slow people".[/quote]
Thanks for the compliments, all, but I'm just throwing my two cents into the discussion. I think many in St. Louis ARE aware of what's going on post-Ferguson. No brilliance is necessary. The police and experienced criminals know what kind of response they'll get. The police are saying, 'you don't like how we work, then we'll give you a chance to see what it's like when we don't.' and the thugs are thinking, 'the popo aint' gonna push their luck cause dey big guys at the top ain't gonna back 'em up. Now's my chance to do my dirty bidnes.' That's what's going on. The police aren't a credible threat to hardcore criminals.
I'm totally okay with the police roughing up violent offenders. They've earned it. The gangtrash of STL deserves only the most exquisite level of police brutality.
