urbanSTL

threeonefour wrote:Is it just me, or does it seem like crime, which was already on an upward trend in 2014, really got out of control in the 70 or so days since the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson? Perhaps I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like a coincidence to me.

Ebsy, you may find LHA's statement inartful, but I believe these protests have come with high costs to our community. The tab for police protection from state, county, and local departments is near $6 million. Who knows how much more money was lost in business over the last two months in areas affected by protests, especially in Ferguson? Who knows how much of an effect that past and possible future unrest will have on St. Louis' reputation and its ability to attract and retain businesses, conventions, jobs, and residents? Most of all, it seems like really brazen crimes like several recent homicides and major theft in broad daylight are on the rise. These are all real costs to our community that cannot be ignored. Sadly, I don't expect things to get much better, since it is a matter of time before a grand jury likely clears Officer Wilson of any wrongdoing and since law enforcement is already stretched to the limit through much of the St. Louis area.

The string of shootings in broad daylight, on and near I-70, and the multiple incidents of music equipment theft are all great causes for concern in my opinion. I just hope city police has adequate resources to make progress on all of these fronts.

urban_dilettante wrote: As for the uptick in violent crime, I read recently that St. Louis is a crossroads of sorts for drug trafficking between Mexico and Chicago. My guess would be that most of the shootings are somehow related to this, either in terms of turf wars, unpaid debts, or just drug criminals having non-drug-crime related crime hobbies. The drug issue is a big big deal and we're going to need serious help from the federal government to tackle it, as we don't have the resources otherwise.

True_dope wrote: To be fair overall crime is down by about 10% so far this year. Lets raise the income tax to 2% and hire more cops have more money for schools and build the N/S Line.

dbInSouthCity wrote:

True_dope wrote: To be fair overall crime is down by about 10% so far this year. Lets raise the income tax to 2% and hire more cops have more money for schools and build the N/S Line.

or cut the city work force by 10-20% and boom that's extra $75-150M a year

quincunx wrote:The city spends $750M on personnel?

Recent violence in parts of downtown and north St. Louis appear to stem from drug disputes and turf wars and not necessarily from gang warfare, said Rick Rosenfeld, a criminologist with the University of Missouri-St. Louis.

“These clearly look like drug-market disputes,” Rosenfeld said. “If somebody poaches on somebody else’s territory, they may have to pay a cost.”

leeharveyawesome wrote: yeah I know your baby dint do nuffins

Finally, forget about crack. Crack is still just as awesome now as it was in 1988. The biggest reason, imho, for the massive, almost amazing drop in murder and crime totals, is the widespread availabilty of abortion starting obviously with Roe vs. Wade in '73.

wustl_eng wrote:

leeharveyawesome wrote: yeah I know your baby dint do nuffins

Wow, you can't make it through a post without some pseudo-racist sh*t in there, can you?

Finally, forget about crack. Crack is still just as awesome now as it was in 1988. The biggest reason, imho, for the massive, almost amazing drop in murder and crime totals, is the widespread availabilty of abortion starting obviously with Roe vs. Wade in '73.

Crack is not nearly as big a deal as it was in the 80s... not even close in terms of demand. It's all about heroin nowadays, which is making a major, major comeback, and is bigger in white suburbs (in terms of use) than it is in poor black urban areas (where it's sold).

And that Freakonomics abortion hypothesis is pretty out there in terms of reasons for the reduction of crime. I don't doubt that it may be part of it... but 1) you can't believe everything you read, and 2) correlation is not causation. There are also a lot of people who say reduction in use of lead in paint and stuff is the number one factor in the reduction of crime... so which wacky theory do you take as gospel is the question, I guess.

arch city wrote: And I think the escalation in homicide and crime is certainly related to drugs, ... and a possible stand-down by local police.

wustl_eng wrote:I get what you mean by the uptick in crime but it's pretty far-fetched to assume it's because of MB, no? As you said, it was already on an upward trajectory. I would definitely say it's a coincidence.

And with regard to the protests and their ill effect... all of that is probably true to some degree, but maybe that's the price the city/region pays for ignoring its macro problems of racial disparity, segregation, and poverty, and the micro problems like the ticket/warrant scams in absurdly small NoCo municipalities. People are pissed off about more than just Mike Brown--I think of it in some ways as the straw that broke the camel's back. What do you expect angry people to do, just sit back because they fear the fiscal and PR related costs their protesting will bring? That's not really how it works. Granted, there are probably more constructive, less antagonistic/disruptive ways of addressing their grievances and the fundamental problems in the system, but I think the problem is they're so disillusioned about 'the system' that they see no point in working within it.

dweebe wrote:

Trap8648 wrote:

wustl_eng wrote:I get what you mean by the uptick in crime but it's pretty far-fetched to assume it's because of MB, no? As you said, it was already on an upward trajectory. I would definitely say it's a coincidence.

And with regard to the protests and their ill effect... all of that is probably true to some degree, but maybe that's the price the city/region pays for ignoring its macro problems of racial disparity, segregation, and poverty, and the micro problems like the ticket/warrant scams in absurdly small NoCo municipalities. People are pissed off about more than just Mike Brown--I think of it in some ways as the straw that broke the camel's back. What do you expect angry people to do, just sit back because they fear the fiscal and PR related costs their protesting will bring? That's not really how it works. Granted, there are probably more constructive, less antagonistic/disruptive ways of addressing their grievances and the fundamental problems in the system, but I think the problem is they're so disillusioned about 'the system' that they see no point in working within it.

I know correlation isn't exactly causation but there's been 44 homicides since August 9th (the day Mike Brown was killed). I don't know if police are being taken of their regular beat to deal with protestors or not but the Darren Wilson/Mike Brown thing seems to at least have an ancilliary effect on the uptick in crime.

You also have to wonder if the cops right now are a combination of "jumpy" and pissed off so they're not as actively patrolling.