Crime Thread

roger wyoming II · PostAug 16, 2014#36762014-08-16T15:10+00:00

Ebsy wrote:I am in awe of the protesters and community members physically blocking the looters from breaking into stores.

yup. When I woke up I heard something on the tv of overnight unrest and when I fired up the computer I was pleased to see a photo of protesters blocking a store entrance on the front page of the NYT. And just seeing Antonio's twitter account of what went down last night is pretty amazing.... there were some really awesome people out there and I think we'll see more effective control by the protestors of the extremists/anarchists/knuckleheads/out-to-do-no-gooders.

I think it's somewhat akin to a mass anti-war demonstration that is very peaceful but then you got that anarchist element that wants to split off and smash windows... but instead of a one day event this is for an on-going duration and the challenge for organizers is to figure out how to keep a lid on the unhelpful elements. I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing more organizers/older people on site throughout the late night to help keep the peace... no packing up.

moorlander · PostAug 16, 2014#36772014-08-16T15:26+00:00

A Facebook acquaintance posted this on Facebook. Here is Darren Wilson's side of the story "allegedly" from a family friend.

Here is the audio

and the transcript

“He pulled up ahead of them. And then he got a call-in that there was a strong-arm robbery. And, they gave a description. And, he’s looking at them and they got something in their hands and it looks like it could be what, you know those cigars or whatever. So he goes in reverse back to them. Tries to get out of his car. They slam his door shut violently. I think he said Michael did. And, then he opened the car again. He tried to get out. He stands up.

And then Michael just bum-rushes him and shoves him back into his car. Punches him in the face and them Darren grabs for his gun. Michael grabbed for the gun. At one point he got the gun entirely turned against his hip. And he shoves it away. And the gun goes off.

Well, then Michael takes off and gets to be about 35 feet away. And, Darren’s first protocol is to pursue. So, he stands up and yells, “Freeze!” Michael and his friend turn around. And Michael taunts him… And then all the sudden he just started bumrushing him. He just started coming at him full speed. And, so he just started shooting. And, he just kept coming. And, so he really thinks he was on something.”

roger wyoming II · PostAug 16, 2014#36782014-08-16T15:59+00:00

^ so stupid that Ferguson has had cameras in storage b/c it can't afford installation (at least that's the report)... hopefully the physical evidence can bring greater clarity and lead to justice but we need more funding for a whole host of tools like dna and rape kit testing, dash cam and body cameras, etc. And community outreach.

xing · PostAug 16, 2014#36792014-08-16T16:14+00:00

They can't afford cameras , but they can afford assault rifles, military gear, and tanks ? They really need to get their priorities checked.

moorlander · PostAug 16, 2014#36802014-08-16T16:19+00:00

^ Police Departments don't pay for military surplus.

The resemblance between the near and the far was no accident, as some of the military gear and weaponry in the hands of Ferguson police likely came from the Pentagon, as did much of the materiel being used in those faraway military conflicts.

Local law enforcement agencies around the U.S. are eligible to receive surplus military equipment through the Defense Department’s 1033 program, whose motto is "from warfighter to crimefighter." They also can purchase similar equipment through grants from the Department of Homeland Security.

The 1033 program has transferred more than $4.3 billion worth of military equipment to law enforcement since its inception in 1997 – including more than $449 million in 2013 alone

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michae ... ns-n181091

http://player.theplatform.com/p/2E2eJC/ ... ops_140815

leeharveyawesome · PostAug 16, 2014#36812014-08-16T16:28+00:00

Well, let's just get right to it. Tragic as it is.....IF.....IF the account of events on the audio posted by Moorlander is accurate do you think the shooting was justified?

threeonefour · PostAug 16, 2014#36822014-08-16T18:45+00:00

Moorlander, thanks for posting that info. In my humble opinion, it was about time that we got some balance here.

xing · PostAug 16, 2014#36832014-08-16T19:51+00:00

moorlander wrote:^ Police Departments don't pay for military surplus.

The resemblance between the near and the far was no accident, as some of the military gear and weaponry in the hands of Ferguson police likely came from the Pentagon, as did much of the materiel being used in those faraway military conflicts.

Local law enforcement agencies around the U.S. are eligible to receive surplus military equipment through the Defense Department’s 1033 program, whose motto is "from warfighter to crimefighter." They also can purchase similar equipment through grants from the Department of Homeland Security.

The 1033 program has transferred more than $4.3 billion worth of military equipment to law enforcement since its inception in 1997 – including more than $449 million in 2013 alone

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michae ... ns-n181091

http://player.theplatform.com/p/2E2eJC/ ... ops_140815

Wonderful. So they're giving away military equipment to law enforcement groups that dont know how to use it properly .

dbInSouthCity · PostAug 16, 2014#36842014-08-16T20:13+00:00

Grand jury will have to decide if they believe the cops version (as told by his friend) or 3 eye witness who said something very different happened....either way this won't end for a long time

moorlander · PostAug 16, 2014#36852014-08-16T20:26+00:00

People often see what the want to see or say what people want to hear. The autopsy will tell us what happened.

TheNewSaintLouis · PostAug 16, 2014#36862014-08-16T20:43+00:00

Completely correct & if Officer Wilson is found not guilty do you think there be another set of riots but far worse than what Ferguson experienced even worse it spreads throughout the area. That could be a big concern. I feel for the cop but yet i feel for Mike Browns mother Then again he was being influenced by the wrong people.
The way i saw how he was pushing the store owner around in the video this kid was big theres no way the cop could have stopped this kid on his own.
Trying to piece together why would a cop want to shoot someone that many times unless as stated he was running at the cop & the cop literally felt threatened ..

Mark Groth · PostAug 16, 2014#36872014-08-16T20:56+00:00

Does anyone know if there is a residency requirement for police in Ferguson or any of the other ~89 cities in the burbs? Secondly, what is the racial breakdown within the St. Louis Police Department; I can't find it on the website? When I've made calls (3rd District) both genders and races seem very represented. Anecdotal for sure, need some facts. Thanks.

roger wyoming II · PostAug 16, 2014#36882014-08-16T22:06+00:00

^ Not Ferguson... the officer involved lives(d) in Crestwood I believe. But I also seem to recall some kind of legal decision on residency requirement of officers.... do we still have it here?

PostAug 16, 2014#36892014-08-16T22:13+00:00

moorlander wrote:People often see what the want to see or say what people want to hear. The autopsy will tell us what happened.

I think the autopsy and other forensics will be important (and help buttress one version over the other) but what makes me so angry is this Ferguson chief has so poisoned the waters that there will be little acceptance of an outcome in the officer's favor even if it is warranted... he not only inflamed the community but did a disservice to the officer if his actions were justifiable. (Of course if they weren't justifiable they were quite helpful).

moorlander · PostAug 16, 2014#36902014-08-16T22:56+00:00

Should ferguson start looking for a black police chief?

downtown2007 · PostAug 16, 2014#36912014-08-16T22:57+00:00

I would be surprised if the officer is convicted. The judicial system, fellow law enforcement, and politicians will stand by the police officer 99%. The deck is stacked against the victim.

arch city · PostAug 17, 2014#36922014-08-17T00:29+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote:Grand jury will have to decide if they believe the cops version (as told by his friend) or 3 eye witness who said something very different happened....either way this won't end for a long time

Actually, there are four eyewitnesses so far.

One man (not Dorian Johnson) claims he has not been interviewed.

Keep in mind too that some people simply don't want to get involved in fear of retaliation by the police.

"No snitching" is just not street criminal/gang code.

Police retaliate against civilian police "snitches" - and even their own.

I think those who have come forward as eyewitnesses are brave and should be supported.

PostAug 17, 2014#36932014-08-17T00:45+00:00

TheNewSaintLouis wrote:Trying to piece together why would a cop want to shoot someone that many times unless as stated he was running at the cop & the cop literally felt threatened ..

He was running away from the cop, which is why he was shot in the back. Eyewitnesses said they saw Brown, "twitch" after getting fired upon while running away. He reportedly then turned around, threw his hands up to surrender, but was shot two or more times by the officer from a distance. Brown then fell to the ground. The officer then went over to him and reportedly unleashed another volley of shots while he was dying (or dead) on the ground.

Once Brown's hands were up, regardless of how Darren Wilson "felt", he should have stopped shooting. This is why the DOJ is involved. It is very possible Wilson violated Brown's 14th Amendment rights.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Once Brown's hands were up, the officer should have kept his firearm trained on Brown. He then should have made Brown keep his hands up while on his knees or made Brown get on the ground stretched out UNTIL back-up officers came.

I have friends in law and law enforcement and this is what they offered.

There is no rhyme or reason for an officer to hoover over a dying (or dead) unarmed person who had his hands up then unleash more bullets into him. No excuses.

At that time, you are performing an execution.

PostAug 17, 2014#36942014-08-17T00:56+00:00

downtown2007 wrote:I would be surprised if the officer is convicted. The judicial system, fellow law enforcement, and politicians will stand by the police officer 99%. The deck is stacked against the victim.

Don't be surprised.

If the DOJ/FBI, based on forensics and eyewitness accounts, say Darren Wilson violated Brown's civil rights - it's a wrap.

This is why body and car cams should be a priority for police departments. It would protect them, cities and the public from police misconduct and lawsuits. Police would also be more accountable.

moorlander · PostAug 17, 2014#36952014-08-17T01:44+00:00

threeonefour wrote:Moorlander, thanks for posting that info. In my humble opinion, it was about time that we got some balance here.

Sure thing. One sided forums make for a very boring discussion.

Everyone seems to made up their mind already based on a witness who, moments before the shooting, was an accomplice in a burglary. Who is Darrion Johnson? Can he even be trusted?

I want to hear more of the officer's side of the story. What will we learn from the autopsy. Was Mike shot in the back? Was he shot up close? far away? Were his arms raised when he was shot?

dbInSouthCity · PostAug 17, 2014#36962014-08-17T01:55+00:00

Thoughts on mr.frenchs twitter background?? Guy throwing year gas at the police

Ebsy · PostAug 17, 2014#36972014-08-17T02:06+00:00

moorlander wrote: Everyone seems to made up their mind already based on a witness who, moments before the shooting, was an accomplice in a burglary. Who is Darrion Johnson? Can he even be trusted?

I thought the chief said that it had been determined that he committed no crime and would not be charged with any crime? Are you now saying the police are wrong?

leeharveyawesome · PostAug 17, 2014#36982014-08-17T02:19+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote:Thoughts on mr.frenchs twitter background?? Guy throwing year gas at the police

Protest images are cool. Tear gas wafting around automatically adds an artistic flair to a photo that you just can't make up. I'm betting Photoshop was getting quite a workout this last week. Fire and having your face obscured also adds a very hip element to any piece of artwork.

roger wyoming II · PostAug 17, 2014#36992014-08-17T02:40+00:00

These two were meant for each other. What a bromance.

dbInSouthCity · PostAug 17, 2014#37002014-08-17T03:09+00:00

I'm surprised he is still there at 10pm, just tweeted....somebody should tell him if he wants to help the region....spend a few hundred millions here.

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