Crime Thread

Eastward · PostMar 14, 2014#31762014-03-14T23:40+00:00

BrickCity4470 wrote:I also feel the government aides this behavior.. Why should someone get a check for having a kid that can likely go out and work like the rest of us...
Mental not mental you know what your doing when you open your legs and you wiggle your stick..

There is ample evidence to back up this assertion as well. The Great Society programs and in particular the program we know as 'welfare' does nothing to alleviate poverty, but merely sustain it.

It has been well documented with empirical evidence as well as the historical record that these programs destroyed the black family for example by encouraging the father to be absent for a check to be delivered or for a space in public housing to become available and discouraging work in general.

Right here in St. Louis, we have the classic representative case of Pruitt-Igoe. There's now a good documentary on the subject on Netflix if you get a chance to check it out.

onecity · PostMar 14, 2014#31772014-03-14T23:51+00:00

Jobs that pay a living wage, not moral platitudes, alleviate poverty. Period.

roger wyoming II · PostMar 15, 2014#31782014-03-15T01:51+00:00

Eastward wrote: The Great Society programs and in particular the program we know as 'welfare' does nothing to alleviate poverty, but merely sustain it.

uh, that is highly disputable. to say the least.

Also, wrt P-I, The Great Society wasn't even in effect by time that misguided venture went awry. The documentary is a great one, btw, and paints a very complex issue which needs to be acknowledged.

Eastward · PostMar 15, 2014#31792014-03-15T03:12+00:00

^ Yes, as with all social science, various studies and schools of thought paint very different pictures.

As far as Pruitt-Igoe, you point out that that project started to have problems shortly after being built in 1956, but it was built with the same mindset that guided the Great Society.

So, yes while that debacle was not officially a part of the massive expenditure of the Great Society, that top-down mentality not only wreaked havoc on families, large parts of society and destroyed large portions of our cities.

stlhistory · PostMar 15, 2014#31802014-03-15T16:04+00:00

Some kind of corruption allegation is going on. Chris King reported a guy took a cell phone video of two cops threatening him with trumped up charges if he didn't roll on someone else. Dotson responded and so did Joyce; Internal Affairs is on the case, but several people commented they expected little consequences.

Also, another St. Louisan became the victim of homicide last night (at University Ave. and St. Louis Ave.).

roger wyoming II · PostMar 15, 2014#31812014-03-15T18:54+00:00

Eastward wrote:^ Yes, as with all social science, various studies and schools of thought paint very different pictures.

As far as Pruitt-Igoe, you point out that that project started to have problems shortly after being built in 1956, but it was built with the same mindset that guided the Great Society.

So, yes while that debacle was not officially a part of the massive expenditure of the Great Society, that top-down mentality not only wreaked havoc on families, large parts of society and destroyed large portions of our cities.

I don't necessarily disagree with the critique of unfortunate impacts of a top-down mentality on cities, but again I think it is rather lazy to associate this with the Great Society in terms of slum clearance and public housing. The clearance of the Saint Louis Central Riverfront, Mill Valley and other parts of the city -- and similar occurrences across the nation -- were the result of bi-partisan support for "slum clearance" and were put into play decades prior to the mid-60s and The Great Society programs. Great Society programs were put into place to try to address endemic and severe poverty throughout the nation in both rural and urban areas and as a whole have worked out rather well.

Eastward · PostMar 17, 2014#31822014-03-17T01:54+00:00

^ Glad to see you're in agreement at some point.

The remained of what we are going back and forth here is simply mincing words. Of course, the Great Society was indeed a series of programs put into place to address the already rapidly decreasing poverty that the booming economy of the previous decade had cut significantly. Unfortunately we are still feeling the effects today.

My original point being that that top-heavy approach to addressing social issues such as poverty as well as the wholesale razing of entire districts and the haphazard building of freeways through our cities come from the same mentality that came to dominate that period-one that said 'we, the new political elite, know better than prior generations and age old tradition'.

Back to the original point, much evidence supports the assertion that these programs not only did zero or very little of what they were intended to do, but in fact created their own set of unintended consequences, among them the destruction of the African American family. At the same time, and with the same mindset, destruction of neighborhoods coincided with this and exacerbated the effects. So, while yes, the physical destruction of our cities was not a part of the Great Society, both are of that mindset, which led to much destruction.

roger wyoming II · PostMar 17, 2014#31832014-03-17T02:12+00:00

^ I think we'll just have to leave it that we agree to disagree.

DannyJ · PostMar 17, 2014#31842014-03-17T02:50+00:00

Eastward wrote:Back to the original point, much evidence supports the assertion that these programs not only did zero or very little of what they were intended to do, but in fact created their own set of unintended consequences, among them the destruction of the African American family.

Just as there is very much evidence that supports the opposite assertion.

Northside Neighbor · PostMar 17, 2014#31852014-03-17T14:36+00:00

Alderman French posted to Facebook that over the past three years there have been 346 murders in St. Louis with only 106 of them resulting in arrests. PD reporter Tim Logan likened it to "getting away with murder".

Then yesterday, the Post Dispatch ran a front page story about trying to get more people to trust the police. However, given the number of murderers on the loose, who's going to trust the cops?

It's a vicious cycle. If more people don't report crimes to the police, more murderers run loose.

BrickCity4470 · PostMar 17, 2014#31862014-03-17T14:38+00:00

sometimes i feel lost i try to get a understanding on everyone's view and not to be overly harsh or judging..
I feel like we make way too many excuse's to condone certain types of behavior.. Homeless wealthy job living in the ghetto living in a very affluent neighborhood still doesn't give you the right to murder someone or anyone unless its justifiable which most aren't .
with these shootings everyday there's not one but now 2-3 and sometimes groups of people being shot... I don't think no one person ever learns from the past and keeps repeating the same patterns over and over....
Pruitt Igoe should've never been built. What did the city gain? Nothing. What did the city lose. a beautiful neighborhood and made racial tensions that much worse ..

From my understanding wasn't Pruitt for blacks and Igoe for whites???

PostMar 17, 2014#31872014-03-17T14:40+00:00

How can anyone trust the cops if the cops are corrupt!

Northside Neighbor · PostMar 17, 2014#31882014-03-17T14:46+00:00

How do you know the cops are corrupt? That's a serious charge. They have a good pension and job security, but that doesn't mean they're corrupt. If anything, they'd likely be more honest in their jobs so as not to blow the job security and pension program. I don't think cops are corrupt. I just don't think they can do that much to reduce crime.

Eastward · PostMar 17, 2014#31892014-03-17T15:20+00:00

roger wyoming II wrote:^ I think we'll just have to leave it that we agree to disagree.

Yes, I think so

We can all agree however, that the current state of crime in the city give it a terrible name and reputation across the country.

BrickCity4470 · PostMar 17, 2014#31902014-03-17T22:42+00:00

I've read many instances of cover ups and bribes within the STLPD... Am i saying all cops in STLPD corrupt no and you're right most are good honest hard workers who don't get paid enough for the job that they do in putting their lives and family at great risk to keep us safe .Theres always going to be a wart or 2 involved in some shenanigans....

downtown2007 · PostMar 18, 2014#31912014-03-18T00:13+00:00

There is going to be corruption in any big city police dept. As long as it's kept to a minimum the bad sheep shouldn't ruin the entire force.

jstriebel · PostMar 27, 2014#31922014-03-27T03:18+00:00

There were THREE murders in the city today. This makes me so angry.

One appears to be an incident of domestic violence in the very near north.

http://fox2now.com/2014/03/26/woman-fou ... -st-louis/

The body of 64-year-old Delores Hundley was found in the 1200 block of North 7th street in St. Louis. ... The victims boyfriend, 54-year-old male was taken into police custody in connection with this crime.

And two others happened on the fairly close to each other on the south side. Sadly, one was a 7-year old (within the last hour).

http://fox2now.com/2014/03/26/st-louis- ... -homicide/

St. Louis City Police are on the scene of an apparent murder on the near south side this afternoon. Police have multiple investigators in the 3100 block of South Compton.

Earlier Wednesday afternoon, a 19-year-old man was shot in 3500 block of Minnesota, and ran to Compton were collapsed. Police tell us he was taken to a local hospital where he was pronounced dead.

http://fox2now.com/2014/03/26/child-sho ... -st-louis/

Police are investigating after a 7-year-old child was shot and killed in south St. Louis.

This happened around 9:45 p.m. Wednesday in the 3600 block of Tholozan.

seanmcelligott644 · PostMar 27, 2014#31932014-03-27T03:29+00:00

This is terrible day for murders. The city needs more cameras ,cops and a special court for gun crimes with harsh sentences. Maybe the city should raise taxes to pay for more cops. How much murders were in the city so far this year?

beer city · PostMar 27, 2014#31942014-03-27T04:34+00:00

jstriebel wrote:There were THREE murders in the city today. This makes me so angry.

One appears to be an incident of domestic violence in the very near north.

http://fox2now.com/2014/03/26/woman-fou ... -st-louis/
The body of 64-year-old Delores Hundley was found in the 1200 block of North 7th street in St. Louis. ... The victims boyfriend, 54-year-old male was taken into police custody in connection with this crime.
And two others happened on the fairly close to each other on the south side. Sadly, one was a 7-year old (within the last hour).

http://fox2now.com/2014/03/26/st-louis- ... -homicide/
St. Louis City Police are on the scene of an apparent murder on the near south side this afternoon. Police have multiple investigators in the 3100 block of South Compton.

Earlier Wednesday afternoon, a 19-year-old man was shot in 3500 block of Minnesota, and ran to Compton were collapsed. Police tell us he was taken to a local hospital where he was pronounced dead.
http://fox2now.com/2014/03/26/child-sho ... -st-louis/
Police are investigating after a 7-year-old child was shot and killed in south St. Louis.

This happened around 9:45 p.m. Wednesday in the 3600 block of Tholozan.

Sickening

roger wyoming II · PostMar 27, 2014#31952014-03-27T12:00+00:00

^ The 7 yr. old boy's murder was particularly sad.... I would not be surprised if this had something to do with the earlier murder by Roosevelt as part of a feud.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... cd7c5.html

BrickCity4470 · PostMar 27, 2014#31962014-03-27T13:19+00:00

Sorry to sound so harsh but these people that get themselves involved with these wild boar ass's don't get any of my sympathy.. The 7 yr old death was very saddening i almost fell off the treadmill as i was running watching news channel 5.. What a way to ring in Jennifer Blome's retirement typical St.Louis violence no respect for one another.... I believe 30 people so far and 30 too many wish it was all a bad dream sadly its not..

southsidepride · PostMar 27, 2014#31972014-03-27T15:18+00:00

Can we do a thug for refugee trade with Syria?

We can take in immigrants who want to leave their war torn land and find peace and exchange them for our home grown morons who want to settle every stupid score with gunfire.

Win-win!

seanmcelligott644 · PostMar 27, 2014#31982014-03-27T18:08+00:00

I have a idea to reduce crime in the city on a neighborhood by neighborhood plan. Why don't the city set up a program were residents in there neighborhood can vote to raise there property taxes a little to hire 2 to 3 extra cops just to walk the beat in there neighborhood everyday. For example lets say if the residents of shaw fell they want more police to cut downtown property crime the residents in shaw could have a small local election and it would take 60% of the vote to pass. If it dose the money would be use for extra cops for just in shaw.

south compton · PostMar 27, 2014#31992014-03-27T18:31+00:00

seanmcelligott644 wrote:I have a idea to reduce crime in the city on a neighborhood by neighborhood plan. Why don't the city set up a program were residents in there neighborhood can vote to raise there property taxes a little to hire 2 to 3 extra cops just to walk the beat in there neighborhood everyday. For example lets say if the residents of shaw fell they want more police to cut downtown property crime the residents in shaw could have a small local election and it would take 60% of the vote to pass. If it dose the money would be use for extra cops for just in shaw.

Some neighborhoods do tax themselves to hire additional security (not real cops, but private security mainly staffed by off-duty cops). I think Southwest Garden is one of the neighborhoods that does this.

seanmcelligott644 · PostMar 27, 2014#32002014-03-27T18:34+00:00

south compton wrote:
seanmcelligott644 wrote:I have a idea to reduce crime in the city on a neighborhood by neighborhood plan. Why don't the city set up a program were residents in there neighborhood can vote to raise there property taxes a little to hire 2 to 3 extra cops just to walk the beat in there neighborhood everyday. For example lets say if the residents of shaw fell they want more police to cut down property crime the residents in shaw could have a small local election and it would take 60% of the vote to pass. If it dose the money would be use for extra cops for just in shaw.
Some neighborhoods do tax themselves to hire additional security (not real cops, but private security mainly staffed by off-duty cops). I think Southwest Garden is one of the neighborhoods that does this.

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