urbanSTL

By a few of these comments, it makes you wonder if some of the people posting really understand the kind of people who are committing these heinous acts?

They are not living by the rules that decent people follow. They don't care about you and they don't care about me. They don't care about themselves. They are like rabid animals.

That being said...

I'm not suggesting "accept the level of crime" in the city or move to the 'burbs.

I am suggesting there are things you can do to lower your chances of being a victim. And everyone should do them. If more people did, crime would go down.

And sorry, guys who do drive-bys don't dial the police non-emergency number.

And yes, it does matter if your yard and alley are poorly lit areas. Darkness creates cover for the evil-doers.

^If they aren't going to live by the rules decent people follow I don't want them living!

Or at least not living free to walk the streets. Empty the jails of the non-violent drug offenders and make it be known that if you try to solve your problems with a gun you get locked up for MINIMUM 40 years.

Northside Neighbor wrote: I am suggesting there are things you can do to lower your chances of being a victim. And everyone should do them. If more people did, crime would go down.

Right. Got it. No one can party with friends in their own backyard.

My oh my, Erina.

You do understand that it is partly (I would say *largely*) your own responsibility to avoid being a victim of crime, correct?

Short answer? Yes.

Walk in a group to lower your chances, or walk with a dog.

If you don't believe this, you are more likely to be a victim.

Simple math.

Oh, and please...

Did I really read a Portlandia reference?? Give me a break.

Don't like it here? Move to freakin' Portland. Or Austin. Or the Bay Area. Or whatever hip progressive enclave you choose.

Fit right in with those awesome people living in those perfect places!

Good luck.

Northside Neighbor wrote:My oh my, Erina.

You do understand that it is partly (I would say *largely*) your own responsibility to avoid being a victim of crime, correct?

You do understand that you're suggesting that if I am at a private party in a residential backyard that I have a reasonable expectation of being shot. Seriously.

Uh, Erina,

Read back through the thread.

You wrote that it shouldn't matter whether the alley or yard were well lit.

I submit that not providing for adequate safety lighting invites crime.

But feel free to party on!

And to "rawest1",

Shame me all you want. I'm not here for shaming or credit. I'm here for shining light on the issues and having a discussion.

And you're really missing the point. What's done is done. The man is dead and his family and friends are shattered. It's a horrible tragedy.

The question is where do we go from here?

Lots of calls to throw these criminals in jail and throw away the keys. Great rhetoric!

What about today, tonight, and tomorrow?

Move to Chesterfield? Okay.

Be more mindful of ways to reduce our own chances of victimhood?

Why not?

Oh, and taking midnight strolls in areas with known gang activity ain't too bright. I don't care how much it's anyone's right do so.

I think I'd have a lot of cops agreeing with me on this.

Northside Neighbor wrote:Uh, Erina,

Read back through the thread.

You wrote that it shouldn't matter whether the alley or yard were well lit.

I submit that not providing for adequate safety lighting invites crime.

But feel free to party on!

And to "rawest1",

Shame me all you want. I'm not here for shaming or credit. I'm here for shining light on the issues and having a discussion.

Jesus. I can't even...

Whether the yard is lit by tiki torches or a 10000 candela lamp does not make it the victim's fault for being shot.

Does it really matter whose fault it is the man was shot?

What difference does it make?

Now I feel like we're having a sort of Benghazi debate.

Yes, it's the fault of the shooter. We've established that.

Perhaps that's the end of the discussion then.

Point Erina!

It totally matters whose fault it is if there is any chance of using this incident and others like it to shape public policy. Victim-blaming is dumb, as it implies that innocent people didn't take proper precautions for taking a walk or having a party in their own back yard. Think about how idiotic that sounds, NN.

The fault for these crimes lies squarely on the shoulders of the murderous trash that for whatever irrelevant reason believes it is okay to behave violently and disrespectfully toward humans' lives and property. ***** them to the fullest extent of the law, and if that isn't enough, change the law to ensure maximum, long-lasting pain. But don't tell law-abiding people it's their fault. That is insulting.

Hey lets all settle down I have some real news for the stl PD and Aldermen Christine Stroer Ingrassia

an update from the police re Saturday's shooting. While devastating, scary and wrong, the incident was NOT random. A white sedan was seen on video leaving the area. That is all I am able to share right now. I've moved my meeting regarding strategies to address crime in Fox Park from March 10th to tomorrow and will continue to keep you updated.

While devastating, scary and wrong, the incident was NOT random.

That's amazing. So somehow the victim(s) was/were involved/known to (with) the perpetrator(s). Interesting.

To the folks going on about the comparison of STL to say Portland or other hipster enclaves, try comparing their rates of poverty to STL. That answers a lot of your questions about why so much crime here.

And to those going on about the depraved behavior of the perpetrators, who cares? What does that have to do with preventing crime?

If anything, it reinforces the fact that people need to do everything they can to minimize their chances of being a victim.

Saying its not random doesn't necessarily mean the victim was involved with the perpetrator. It could've been a crazy neighbor who didn't like loud parties trying to send a message in a very poorly thought-out way to the residents of that particular property.

Not knowing who your crazed neighbors are gives you an increased chance of being a victim.

One of my neighbors is kind of nutty. She has her son do things that offends the neighbors. I know this, and the fact that this person has access to guns.

So I don't say anything to offend them. I stay out of their way and we are all happier and safer.

The idea that when a nutcase shoots into someone's yard to quiet them down is not random seems like a stretch to me.

Okay, they were targeted because they were making noise.

Sort of like the movie theater victims being shot because they were texting or talking in a show.

I'd call that random. And, the victims shouldn't have been talking or texting to irritate the others in the theater.

But I guess the real question is, how is the idea of randomness in this case supposed to make anyone feel safer?

To avoid being a victim, don't make loud noise in your yard or you might get shot by a loon?

Seems like this discussion is rather circular.

Regardless if this crime was random or not residents in the city of St.Louis deserve the same good equality of living such as other like Portland Austin Seattle Minneapolis Pittsburgh etc.. No one should get shot at or killed for any stupid reason whether your with a group of friends at a party or alone walking your dog/going to a neighborhood store It's simply unacceptable... I will not bash anyone who wants move outside of St.Louis in order for a better quiet lifestyle. I'll say this sometimes i feel like living in St.Louis is very stressful we put up with so much negative Sh** here thats its ridiculous...

BrickCity4470 wrote:. I'll say this sometimes i feel like living in St.Louis is very stressful we put up with so much negative Sh** here thats its ridiculous...

For real. Negative sh*t like people with such poor impulse control and disregard for anything that conflict resolution over a noise issue is shooting people instead of calling the nonemergency number.

Why don't we have 311 here? Anyone?

It's not an excuse dude, it's a fact. Poverty, drugs, a weak family structure, a lack of education, GUNS, all contribute to social dysfunction and/or a lifestyle of crime and gang affiliation.

Let's not keep our heads in the sand, shall we?

I'm just saying this as a completely otherwise-uninformed reader of the STLToday article.

The fact that this happened the night of Mardi Gras leads me to think the shooting might've been related to some beef that got started earlier in the day or night at the "celebration". I just say that because I witnessed what I would estimate to be about 20 altercations/fights between drunk "tough" guys from about 1pm to 5pm when I left Soulard and the altercations seemed to be growing in number and intensity as the day wore on. I'm willing to think- as a theory a bit more likely than the idea that a loud party near Soulard on that day caused someone to just "snap" and shoot up a yard- that the shooting could've been related to fight earlier in the day.

Because this story seems pretty plausible in my mind after witnessing so much jack*ss behavior for years and years at Soulard Mardi Gras, I think it's one of the worst days in St. Louis and I don't think I'll be going again.

^Just to be clear this happened Saturday at 1:00 AM. Several hours before any Mardi Gras parade day festivities had begun in Soulard.

The only connection I can see between their party and MG is that the victim may have had friends in town to celebrate and they were pre-partying Friday night.

KMOX reporting that the shooting was over someone taking someone's favorite parking space